Zero Force Motor Project

[bistander]

Bloch wall

It is a zero vector motor - it is a neutral line motor. These are synonymous with zero force motor and are the original terms John used to name it. It is a reference to the magnet's bloch wall.

Felix Bloch (1905-1983) was Stanford's first Nobel Prize winner, 1952 for work in nuclear magnetic resonance techniques. From: Felix Bloch facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com articles about Felix Bloch

After spending the academic year 1930–1931 with Heisenberg in Leipzig, Bloch wrote his Leipziger Habilitationsschrift. In this work, he systematically studied exchange-interaction problems and residual magnetization in ferromagnets and, at the same time, developed much of the formalism which has been used ever since in condensed-matter theory and problems of collective phenomena. Beyond its contribution to the theory of domain walls, this work serves as a bridge between the quantum theory of ferromagnetism in the 1930s and present theories of many-particle systems (see Hoddeson et al.). Bloch was also able to work out the thickness and structure of the boundary walls, and the wall structure became known as the Bloch wall.

From the International Electrotechnical Commission:

IEC 60050 - International Electrotechnical Vocabulary - Details for IEV number 121-12-55: "Bloch wall"

Bloch wall

Words have meaning. "Bloch wall" was used, and had and still has a specific meaning which has little or nothing to do with John Bedini's discussion of an air core coil. John should have called it a Bedini wall.

To me it seems like he did the same thing with "force" and "vector", both are words which already had definitions, and are non-zero in his motor. I have nothing against the thing other than the misuse of terminology. I like see to folks experimenting with electric machinery. I've done so myself for decades and picked up a fair amount of knowledge about the machines and related physics. And I'm willing to share.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

One:
get a flywheel


Two:
Build it, see what it will do

Three:
it will charge the third battery at a rate GREATER than the
discharge of the primary batteries, something few motors will do.
Build it, run it,

Post #31 tells me to build it and see, it also says to get a flywheel.
The other statements relate to high RPM's so I was right i guess.

In other words there are no explanations yet until more builders
come forth. I like the part about this mtr is just as good as the
Matt Mod Mtr where is does the magic on all the batteries. Not
much of a theological expose but is good enough for me.

On the contrary I don't think that basic requirements or assessments
will bore everyone to sleep so they don't come back to this thread, I
think it is the reason why so many threads lay dormant due to the
lack of reaching a common understanding of what is being suggested.

Hardly anyone will build it. How many do you know building the
Matt Mod Mtr? Zhit- ain't nobody gonna build it especially if they
don't know what it is for.

Your delivery is most exciting, your approach is "THIS IS WHAT IT DOES"
"BUILD IT" telling everyone that it is a good one. Coming from you I would
have to say that it is.

Still I have no clue why.

[BroMikey]

Yes but my problem is that I can't explain the difference between
how a standard pulse motor with iron works vs a zero force one.

These are the characteristics

#1) I know that it runs high RPM's
#2) I know it has no iron
#3) I think the right hand rule does not apply
#4) I know it runs on low amps due to zero iron
#5) I know that by comparison "there is no BEMF associated with it"
#6) Small on torque

These are a few things i have heard but to go to the heart of what
sticks out i am unsure of why this mtr is special. Maybe i forgot something?

[Aaron]

optimum setup

My goal from the beginning of the ZFM project is to run it on the three battery methodology and have it turn the Kromrey generator.

Turion evidently has a similar thought.

[Bodkins]

I have. I cannot find why it is named or called "zero force". It obviously does have force(s) associated with it. Why call call it zero? Can you answer that? Or provide a link which addresses the zero part. I've watched John B explain how it works. He even talks about mechanical load and torque, which indicates non-zero force.

Thanks,

bi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtGz4QHJ0e4

[Aaron]

bloch wall

I have. I cannot find why it is named or called "zero force". It obviously does have force(s) associated with it. Why call call it zero? Can you answer that? Or provide a link which addresses the zero part. I've watched John B explain how it works. He even talks about mechanical load and torque, which indicates non-zero force.

Thanks,

bi

It is a zero vector motor - it is a neutral line motor. These are synonymous with zero force motor and are the original terms John used to name it. It is a reference to the magnet's bloch wall.

[seaad]

Hi Citfta

Thanks. It's good to have some feedback from reality so I get a feeling of how much I can trust the simulations.

Regards
Arne

[citfta]

Hi Arne,

In answer to your last question about distortion of the signal applied to the base of the transistors let's look at the schematic. As you see I am using an opto-coupler to apply the signal to the base. I am doing that so that my transistor does not spend much time in between on and off. The opto-coupler gives me very quick on and off times.

If you look at my scope shot you can see the area that looks solid during the on time of the pulse. If you were to expand the scope shot to better see the solid area you would see it is actually made up of a bunch of 2.5 khz pulses. And each pulse is very nearly a perfect square wave at that frequency. If I increase my frequency to about 10 khz or so then I do begin to see some distortion and my output from my generator winding also begins to drop. The signal shown on the scope shot is from the generator winding so it will show if there is any distortion from the air-core coupling.

Thanks for your interest.

Respectfully,
Carroll

One added thought is that maybe the simulation does realistically show the proper coupling of the windings because my coil is actually a trifilar coil and not two separate air coils.

[seaad]

,,,,COLOR="Blue"

"I am NOT trying to make a "Zero Force Motor". I built the motor I built for the purposes of experimentation."
I thought so also. Becauce of NSNS. My build inspiration comes now from the "Adams motor".

"I appreciate your input about my motor but I have already established my goals and procedures for what I want to accomplish."
Good!

"As far as your comment about the coils not being transformer coupled because they are air cored, that is incorrect. "
More or less. I assume, at these low motor frequencies just high freq. spikes will "jump" over! ("jump"= incorrect word )

"Air cored transformers are regularly used in RF circuits."
I know I have been working with radio most part of my life. Not electrical motors.

"And they do not induce corruption or make a mess of the signal."
But together with the switching transistors they do so in the simulation with somewhat weak coupling.
Does your signals on the output coils mirror the gates signals, on the bench?

Respectfully
Arne

[citfta]

Hi Carrol
First I just wanted to know If it was allowed to dicuss NSNS configuration and cores here. I don't want a "serious builders" situation.

First issue solved. I right now saw Bro M:s reply. Thanks BroMikey!

Second. I'm going to utilize ALL sides of my magnets and coil ends.

Congrats Carrol; to your good circuit. Two Switch transistors and the two Transformer coupled Coils reduces the power consumption to drive the coil ( motor magnetic impulser unit) to about the same low level as I have, with my used principle and my single winding, without distorting the signal. ( Still about square) I took my coil values and used that x2 in your two coils and made a simulation.
BUT, but with your principle you have to have two windings on the same bobbin. To make them fit there we have to reduce the Cu-wire diameter. ( More Ohms in both coils)
That reduces the Amp-turns with reduces the magnetic power as a result.
Compared to a single wire coil principle, here we have to increase the battery voltage.

If your input pulse signals A and B (not the iterrupting F.G. chopping signal. Not simulated yet) is let say: Cycle time=6ms ,OnA=2ms OffA=4ms, OnB=2ms OffB=4ms and signal B is delayed 3ms
THEN the OUTput will be a 3ms+3ms (50%/50%) zero and 180 degr. square signal. (With my coil values) Do you want that??
BUT with a shorter On-time (A and B) than 2ms the output signals will be a mess, corrupt and stocastic.

And you are right about windage losses and such. I know nothing!

I come to think of one important thing: Your coils are NOT TRANSFORMER COUPLED. Air coils. Uhuuuu Now output signals will be a mess, corrupt and stocastic
AGAIN!!


Regards
Arne

Hello again,

Let me say this again. I am NOT trying to make a "Zero Force Motor". I built the motor I built for the purposes of experimentation. I only posted the video of it to this thread to show Bro. Mikey that an air-cored motor will not run away and does in fact have BEMF.

I appreciate your input about my motor but I have already established my goals and procedures for what I want to accomplish.

As far as your comment about the coils not being transformer coupled because they are air cored, that is incorrect. Air cored transformers are regularly used in RF circuits. And they do not induce corruption or make a mess of the signal.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[bistander]

Zfm

Do your research so you can see what John's definition is as applied to the motor and not your own.

I have. I cannot find why it is named or called "zero force". It obviously does have force(s) associated with it. Why call call it zero? Can you answer that? Or provide a link which addresses the zero part. I've watched John B explain how it works. He even talks about mechanical load and torque, which indicates non-zero force.

Thanks,

bi

[Allen Burgess]

Quote from bistander:

Magnetic force is not "Henrys". It is not measured in "Henrys".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP2xEKH4qdc

Here's an example of a bifilar coil in self resonance that is spontaneously building a magnetic field that is measured in "Negative Micro Henrys":

[BroMikey]

The Henry is a unit of inductance.



Magnetic force is not "Henrys". It is not measured in "Henrys". It is not inductance.

The quote I used above is from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force
It is a good and lengthy article on magnetic and electromagnetic force. I do not see any mention of inductance or Henry.

And a puzzlement to me is why anyone would want a zero force motor. After all, a motor converts electric power to mechanical power. With no force there is no mechanical power. So what use is a ZFM?

Regards,

bi

I been asking that question and am still trying to wrap my head around
it. It runs on hv and very tiny amounts of current, I know what you are
going to say. Wait a minute and listen for awhile.

It runs on high voltage and high RPM's on tiny amounts of current. It
displays very small amounts of BEMF according to John B. and from what
I hear if you run it between positives at 36v which means 48v in series
going to a 3rd 12v battery leaving 36v this motor produces it's
own regenerative (SUUL) acceleration for some unknown reason.

WHEn this occurs the tiny amounts of current drop even more to maintain
it. Other off the shelf motors do not manifest this desired action that
Tesla pointed out in his coil patent in the 1800's. Well he talked about
coils that produced energy as if they were not even there concerning
drag of any kind.

[Aaron]

zfm

And a puzzlement to me is why anyone would want a zero force motor. After all, a motor converts electric power to mechanical power. With no force there is no mechanical power. So what use is a ZFM?

Do your research so you can see what John's definition is as applied to the motor and not your own.

[bistander]

Why

... make the Henrys (magnetic force) as big as possible.
...

The Henry is a unit of inductance.

The magnetic force component of the Lorentz force manifests itself as the force that acts on a current-carrying wire in a magnetic field. In that context, it is also called the Laplace force.

Magnetic force is not "Henrys". It is not measured in "Henrys". It is not inductance.

The quote I used above is from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force
It is a good and lengthy article on magnetic and electromagnetic force. I do not see any mention of inductance or Henry.

And a puzzlement to me is why anyone would want a zero force motor. After all, a motor converts electric power to mechanical power. With no force there is no mechanical power. So what use is a ZFM?

Regards,

bi