Running on Fumes

[Jeff Pearson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKmwHmC1Fzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P99IzvC9GI

The experiment ended in flames but I still feel it was sucessful experiment

[vidbid]

Ford Model T - Heated Air Intake



As you can see above, the Model T automobile engine heated its air for the carburetor by passing the air over the exhaust manifold with something called a hot air stove, which then piped the hot air through the hot air housing to the carburetor.

There also appears a mechanism near to the carburetor that regulated the air temperature of the fuel air mix traveling in the intake manifold from the carburetor, which was called a hot spot control valve with an assembly known as the hot spot along with the hot spot inlet and outlet tubing.

The above devices would appear to help to vaporize the fuel before it was used in the engine.

[IKNOWNOTHING]

fuel mileage

Good info.Ive got some experience in this field.I had a nieghbor who made a vapor carb/tank and it was the most ugliest contraption you can imagine but it worked.He played around with it for awhile but never very long which is a shame because getting the bugs out of things is whats needed.
I have been able to do mileage increases by heating the fuel before the carb and was able to get a constant 25 miles t o the imperial gallon out of an old Buick.Probelem was getting the heating right so you dont stall at a traffic light but through trial and error we did it.Just took a fuel line and wrapped it around the heater hose a few times.I did the same to an older Datsun diesel and had improvements on the mileage very noticable but a slight power drop.I ve also done the fuel blending thing and running different fuels.Ran a 85 ford 6.9 diesel on waste vegetable oil as well as a Chinese diesel genset for a few years.Tricks to everything but if you keep at it and use common sense then it can be done.
Todays engines should respond better to the vapour fuels and last longer because of much better metallurgy.
Great stuff.

[altnergy]

I have thus far been able to run a 1200w gas generator for over an hour on just fumes. After awhile it begins surging and shuts down.

It seems to be starving out because when I sit next to it and turn the fuel inlet valve back on then immediately off, the engine will run normally again for awhile.

The carb and associated linkages are still installed on the generator.

When I removed the carb and ran the vapor hose directly into the intake port the engine ROARED to life and ran WAY TOO FAST and the voltage amp panel on the generator went off the scale, so I QUICKLY shut it down, reinstalled the carb, and checked the genny for normal operation.

Thank God All is Well!

I also experimented with using a cable tie on the carb linkages when it starts to surge and that has worked to keep the generator running, but I know there has to be a better way because other people are doing this successfully, and it appears that all of them have removed the carb.

What I Am wanting to do is learn a step by step process that includes the carb removal details AND IF ALL THE LINKAGES ARE ALSO REMOVED.

ANY help in this matter is GREATLY APPRECIATED!

God bless and be well!

[Aaron]

altnergy, can you spell it out sequentially starting with how you're producing the gas vapor so we can get the full picture of what you're doing?

I think most people remove the carb because they're not adjustable so as long as air is moving through the carb, the venturi will continue to suck the normal amount of gasoline regardless of how efficient the combustion cycle is. This is all because of EPA regulations. So if the carb is gone, then you have full control of exactly how much fuel you're adding but you also remove the air restriction so its like the throttle is wide open.

Seems you could just remove the gas jet and replace it with a screw and then drill a hole into the carb throat after the throttle plate or directly into the intake manifold to insert a nozzle for the vapor fuel.

With a mostly stock setup, the leanest you can go is to put in high altitude jets. For my Champion generator with plasma ignition, the Champion company sent me high altitude jets but if you want to go leaner, you can't without other mods.

Years ago we had a wind storm here and my generator was charging a big battery Bank and was running my refrigerator and every time the refrigerator kicked on the surge was so much that it knocked the generator out and I had to keep going out to turn it on. After doing this multiple times I realized that the stock Magneto ignition cable was still connected to the spark plug and normally I have it stuck to a dummy plug attached to the body of the generator so that it still can fire without getting damaged. So I hooked up the plasma ignition cable and turned it on and not one single time that the refrigerator kicked on did it ever stall the generator showing in disputably that the plasma ignition being the sole modification was absolutely increasing the thermal efficiency of the engine and is getting a lot more power out of the same amount of feel. Unfortunately there was no extended running time benefits because like I said as long as that air is moving through that carburetor it's going to suck the same amount of fuel. You can see the ignition setup on that generator here:

My favorite carb trick is George Wiseman's float bowl vacuum trick, which I have not done and no reason it can't work on generator carbs. It allows you to fully regulate how much fuel leaves the jet under venturi.

The book is here: https://eagle-research.com/product/c...third-edition/

After you get that all under control no matter what method you use, I'd experiment with pulling air through a bubbler and that is the air source that then goes into the carb air intake. See what if any benefits you get.

There is a place for my plasma ignition in all of this since there is not one combustion process it doesn't enahnce but I'd do one thing at a time.

[altnergy]

Hello Aaron and thanks for the fast response.

Before I get started I want to ask you to PLEASE turn on the PRINT FEATURE that allows us to print out an entire energetics forum thread / topic.

I do this regularly with other forums that Appear to be made with the same software as the enrgetics forums. Some are over 100 pages long depending on the topic. This allows us to save the valuble information as PDF or Hard Copy!! So it is likely a FEATURE that can be turned on.

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS IMPORTANT, we do not always have internet access, plus it is far easier to read from and follow instructions from a PRINTED PAGE!

OKAY on to the vapor details...

I wanted to do a few more trials before I responded to you with the photos that I have now uploaded.

I have new champion 1200W generator with new spare carb and airbox assembly. I measured the air intake holes on the airbox and calculated the total air inlet area to be same surface area as inside diameter of 3/4" hose.

I used RTV silicone to seal up the airbox air inlet and made a 3/4" hole in the front opening and mounted a fitting and started the engine and ran the genny for a whole day under load using the modded airbox and it works fime.

Next I created a brass FLAsBaCK aRREsTOR and attached it to the airbox fitting and again the genny operates fine with it installed!

Next I assembled the vapor assembly using a mason jar with appropriate hoses and valves to allow for mixing gas fumes to air ratio.

I have tested different items in the setup including with and without wicking material, with or without air stone bubbler, plain open tube bubbler, 1 quart and 1/2 gallon mason jars, ultrasonic mist maker inside the jars, swapping valves to different locations in the setup.


I have been able to START and RUN the genny by TURNING OFF the built in generator fuel valve on the carb and run on fumes alone, however regardless of the configuration I use it will begin to surge and cut off anywhere between 10 minutes and an hour.

I notice that during the surge gasoline with quickly condense and get drawn into the tube leading to the airbox and flood the engine causing it to stall. Enough gas to actually drip out the airbox!

If I catch the surge quickly enough, before the condensation phase, I can turn the fuel valve built into the generator leading to the carb back ON and the surging will stop. The engine calms down, and runs normal.

If I LEAVE it like this to draw both vapor and fuel from the carb, eventually the engine will stop from too rich fuel mix.

Logically it appears that during the run "something" is causing the engine to call for MORE GAS as if it is not getting enough, This causes the engine to slowly and quietly begin to surge, which builds up rhythmically with increasing intensity until the engine floods out.

In most the videos I see where people are running off vapor they have REMOVED THE CARBURETOR!

When I removed the carb from the engine and ran the vapor hose directly into the intake, the engine starts up with EXTREMELY HIGH IDLE SPEED! So high that the VOLTAGE AND HERTZ meters are OFF THE SCALE!

So I shut it down IMMEDIATELY AND REINSTALLED THE CARB. Then It runs fine again.

I Am beginning the read up on something on the engine called the governor. At this point my understanding that it and its associated links to the carb MAINTAIN ENGINE SPEED and fuel air ratio. So perhaps there is something that the successful vapor users do to the governor to take it out of the loop.

I thank you in advance for your assistance one and all!

God bless and be well!

[JenkoRun]

I second the enabling the print feature if possible, I'm something of a data hoarder and like to make backups of stuff I find, I've had a few webpages on other sites go dark before I could back them up over the last year.

[altnergy]

Hello Jenko!
Go here and use the wayback machine and you will likely be able retrieve those now non existent sites!

https://archive.org/

God bless and be well!

[altnergy]

Hello Aaron,

For the print feature I have researched and read that there is a THREAD TOOLS option that can be turned on and it will appear in the menu bar for the FIRST POST and when users access the thread tools bar they will find the PRINT button.

More info is found here..

https://forum.vbulletin.com/forum/vbulletin-3-8/vbulletin-3-8-questions-problems-and-troubleshooting/353541-thread-tools

ALSO...

There is this plugin that may be able to be installed in vbulletin


Printable Version for Forum Topics, Blog, Articles and Social Groups

I don't think this will be needed, but here is the link

https://vbmods.rocks/forum/vbulletin-5-modifications/vbulletin-5-products-and-extensions/24941-printable-version-for-forum-topics-blog-articles-and-social-groups

God bless and be well!

[Aaron]

None of those options exist in the control panel. There is nothing on your v3.8 link and its not applicable to 5+ anyway.

[altnergy]

Thanks for the fast response Aaron. Here is the correct link for the printing feature mod for version 5.

https://vbmods.rocks/forum/vbulletin-5-modifications/vbulletin-5-products-and-extensions/24941-printable-version-for-forum-topics-blog-articles-and-social-groups

I will GLADLY pay the $20.00 Fee on behalf of ALL OF US in order to help make our forum even more effective. The information in all the energetic forums is way to valuable to entrust to just cyberspace or even hard drive backups.

HAVING A LIBRARY of this information in printed hard copy will be an encyclopedia in the renaissance of energy! Forever free from the risks of needing an electronic device for access or information "disappearing" from websites etc.

Let me know how to send payment and I WILL DO SO IMMEDIATELY!

God bless and be well!

[altnergy]

P.S. Their version they use is also 5.7.5!

God bless and be well!

[norman6538]

Paul Pantone was selling the GEET which was a vapor making system from exhaust heat like Pogue. and I subsequently did extensive work on a lawn mower.
My vapor carb was a pickle jar with a tube down to the bottom with several holes where air in would make nice white fog vapor and a ube out the top into the carb/intake . It would start easy and then stop because the vapor was too rich. Then bleeding some air in would keep it running and on pump gas it ran 30% than liquid. But with Coleman fuel it ran 200% longer than pump gas but there was always some residue in the bottom of the jar that would not evaporate. When crude is distilled/cracked naptha etc evaporate first and Coleman fuel has the best of the distilled fuel. It turned out that GEET was nothing more than vaporization which a GEET dealer told me to experiment on.

But after all the above examples, are there any running today? I'd like to see them. Since messing with the auto system is illegal I suggest going after lawn mowers etc first and when that is proven go after Ca. CARB. Hydrogen Garage has done that and succeeded.

Norman

[machinationu]

did you try "file" "print" to pdf?

[Aaron]

Paul Pantone was selling the GEET which was a vapor making system from exhaust heat like Pogue. and I subsequently did extensive work on a lawn mower.
My vapor carb was a pickle jar with a tube down to the bottom with several holes where air in would make nice white fog vapor and a ube out the top into the carb/intake . It would start easy and then stop because the vapor was too rich. Then bleeding some air in would keep it running and on pump gas it ran 30% than liquid. But with Coleman fuel it ran 200% longer than pump gas but there was always some residue in the bottom of the jar that would not evaporate. When crude is distilled/cracked naptha etc evaporate first and Coleman fuel has the best of the distilled fuel. It turned out that GEET was nothing more than vaporization which a GEET dealer told me to experiment on.

But after all the above examples, are there any running today? I'd like to see them. Since messing with the auto system is illegal I suggest going after lawn mowers etc first and when that is proven go after Ca. CARB. Hydrogen Garage has done that and succeeded.

Norman

Norman, do you see any difference between the GEET process and the "Thunderstorm Generator"? The sequence of events looks virtually identical.