Faraday Disc 2.0

[bistander]

Induction

...
4- MAGNET+DISC STATIC, ONLY TWO BRUSHES ROTATING= V><0 or V Presence [/B]This missing experiment on above video, except for the BACK-FORTH HAND MOVEMENT which shows an UP-DOWN Voltage Zig-Zag, WOULD HAVE BEEN THE MORE IMPORTANT OF ALL THE ABOVE!!!

Why?...Just because it CLEARLY PROVES that it is all about that CONDUCTIVE PATH DEFINED BY THE TWO BRUSHES, ROTATING, what really generates an Induction output, taking this WHOLE EXPERIMENT DOWN to a specific element DEFINED AS TOPNOTCH HERE, which eventually will throw or RULE OUT whether DISC OR MAGNET MOVES OR NOT.

On the other hand, by moving-rotating just the two brushes, this Conductive Path is the same RELATED to the TWO BRUSH POSITIONING, HOWEVER, DIFFERENT PORTIONS OF DISC METAL ARE COVERED through just the Brushes spinning on top of STATIC copper disc. And so, this FACT ALSO TAKES PLACE whenever Disc Spins while brushes are static...

Hi Ufo,

Did you watch part 2? It continues the investigation and lists 3 conclusions at the end, #1 being:

Magnetic induction does not necessarily need counter-movement between a magnet and a conductor.

Doesn't that contradict your statements above?

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

Did you watch part 2? It continues the investigation and lists 3 conclusions at the end, #1 being:

Magnetic induction does not necessarily need counter-movement between a magnet and a conductor.

Doesn't that contradict your statements above?

Regards,

bi

Hello Bistander,

Nope, not at all and as a matter of fact I will say that it is a very real and verifiable conclusion.

There are MANY, but I mean many ways to obtain Induction where it is NOT required any Physical movement of either conductor or magnet, whether reciprocating nor linear, not any at all and get induction achieved.

Problem is...which one is more "suitable" in order that Output would be "Fully Compatible" with our actual ways to generate BUT MAINLY to CONSUME electrical power.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[lotec]

Hi UofoPolitics,
Thanks for taking the time to read my post and prepare your response. I just want to clarify the fact that the video was first posted on this thread by the user Seaad. Thinking that this post deserved further treatment, I just referenced it at the top of my post so I could conveniently convey some of my thoughts on the matter.

Concerning the wave form on the scope when he was moving the pickups backward and forward relative to the disk, now that you mention it, I would have thought that it might have been a bit curvier at certain places. Good spotting. Whether this is due to a low resolution scope, combined with the way the high gain voltage amplifier was constructed, or some other reasons, I don't know. As it is at the moment, I believe that the alleged truths about homo polar generator that are being conveyed within, are in fact true. As far as beliefs go, I am always ready to change them if I am presented with a compelling enough reason to do so (eventually).

... understand that brushes on above video, delimit a CONDUCTING PATH on the Copper Disc...

I agree with a lot of the stuff that you posted, but I found that statement particularly poignant. Perhaps there is something to be learned by shifting our focus to what might be happening in the nonconducting regions of the disk.

When it comes to flux cutting wires and vica verca, I think we could nearly be on the same page about that. Without delving too deeply into the relationship between electron spin and coherent ether flow, I don't see any logical reason to believe that its absolutely necessary for anything to cut anything. Wouldn't proximity itself be enough? With a deeper understanding of the phenomena, such things might just appear to be more and more circumstantial.


Hi Bistander,
Last time we sort of spoke, you gave me some subtle, yet wise advise concerning an idea that I had put out there. At the time I was blind to the truth that you were trying to convey. I had to build the circuit and test it out, to come to that conclusion. I put it down to a self created temporary delusion needed to reinforce the thrill of the chase. Someone has to keep things real, so I am taking this synchronistic opportunity to express that.
Good observation spotting that second video. I have only skimmed it, but am aware of the conclusions. I have to admit, I'm a little bit surprised that he pushed the envelope that far, but good on him. It will take me some time to fully digest it. You can probably see that some of the conclusions were more clearly implied in the first video than others. One of the experiments at first glance looked suspiciously like the Sgnac experiment.
As for the conclusion that is most relevant to this thread, I think still more can be said about that.

Regards
Wil.

[lotec]

Hi UfoPolitics,

I might have misunderstood parts of your post, If you were hinting at the fact that the scenario, magnet and disk stationary while brushes move, was faked.

I think that is always a probability. If that turns out to be true, then everything on my last two posts will be false.

Science seems to be about leaping from one conclusion to another, so when someone makes a leap they need to be sure they are right or everything else that comes after is either wrong or is severely floored.

Regards.

EDIT //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have made a big mistake in my logic, in the last few posts, that was brought about my misinterpretation of a video demonstration that I posted a few posts ago.

It was concerning the scenario where the magnet and the disk are stationary and the pickup brushes are rotated and induction occurs. This probably set of a chain of events that lead to idea that the magnet and conductor may not need to move in relation to each other to cause induction. This could still be the case maybe, I dont know, but it wont be for the reasons I presented. There is a second video that comes to that conclusion but I dont understand how. What I do beleive though, is the concept I was presenting in terms of there needing to be a reset condition, and the way I applied it to said scenario, is floored, because it doesnt take into account polarity.

Personally I think that the only part of the disk that can be considered the conductor is the conductive pathway between the brushes, and the rest seems pretty irelevant to me. When the brushes move so does the conductor. The fact that the polarity changes with the direction of the brush movement, suggests to me the conductor is being cut by magnetic flux lines.

I appologise for wasting anyones time and for presenting eroneous theories.

[Ufopolitics]

Hi UfoPolitics,

I might have misunderstood parts of your post, If you were hinting at the fact that the scenario, magnet and disk stationary while brushes move, was faked.

I think that is always a probability. If that turns out to be true, then everything on my last two posts will be false.

Hello Lotec,

I was NOT hinting of a possible fake when brushes were moved. I consider that as a FACT, REAL.

What I was wondering ...is why He did not carry a full experiment where brushes were rotating, while disc and magnet static?
Maybe because it would be a lot more work to build two slip rings plus two more (Fixed) brushes to take it to scope...

I thought on the second video He would build it (brushes rotating)...which would have taken to a final and more specific conclusion, like I wrote previously.

But instead he jumps into a Capacitor based patent...either ways he reaches one main conclusion...Einstein was wrong as that magnetic field would rotate with magnet*...and so, no "Moving Bodies (understand as Magnet and Conductor counter movement) are required to obtain EM Induction...

*Like I wrote previously, Magnet and Field for this particular Geometry of the Homopolar Generator, where rotation takes place FROM the AXIS of the Magnet...However, if we rotate magnet AXIS, PERPENDICULAR to the axis of rotation, then the whole thing changes, and that is the direct application to any typical generator now days...

Science seems to be about leaping from one conclusion to another, so when someone makes a leap they need to be sure they are right or everything else that comes after is either wrong or is severely floored.

Regards.

Exactly, as I agree above...take some time and read this pdf that I have found on the UFO (Alien Reproduction Vehicles) Thread posted by Spacecase:

THEORY OF RELATIVITY - ULTIMATE DISPROOF

Below I am quoting a paragraph from that pdf...:

The origin of the fallacy of Relativity Theory lays in the wrong explanation of the homopolar engine which was invented and lately explained by Faraday in 1827 and this was the first electrical generator built ever. Result of such wrong explanation retarded development of electrical machines causing wrong assumption derived from the experiment that a linear (DC) electrical motor is not necessarily a generator too.

Regardless of the poor English translation of this article, I really could not agree more with its reasoning, basically the underlined part above, which relates to the Homopolar Machine.

Clear and precise proof of what you were saying above...

EDIT //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have made a big mistake in my logic, in the last few posts, that was brought about my misinterpretation of a video demonstration that I posted a few posts ago.

It was concerning the scenario where the magnet and the disk are stationary and the pickup brushes are rotated and induction occurs. This probably set of a chain of events that lead to idea that the magnet and conductor may not need to move in relation to each other to cause induction. This could still be the case maybe, I dont know, but it wont be for the reasons I presented. There is a second video that comes to that conclusion but I dont understand how. What I do believe though, is the concept I was presenting in terms of there needing to be a reset condition, and the way I applied it to said scenario, is floored, because it doesnt take into account polarity.

Personally I think that the only part of the disk that can be considered the conductor is the conductive pathway between the brushes, and the rest seems pretty irelevant to me. When the brushes move so does the conductor. The fact that the polarity changes with the direction of the brush movement, suggests to me the conductor is being cut by magnetic flux lines.

I apologize for wasting anyone's time and for presenting erroneous theories.

BINGO!!...Yes, that is exactly what I wrote on my previous post, it is ALL about that conductive PATH delimited by the two brushes.

Remember Electricity ALWAYS takes the shortest path...and that won't be going around disc circumference...BUT Jumping from brush to brush, which are closer.

All EM Induction does... is to generate an ELECTRON FLOW within a Metal (Not necessarily only ferromagnetics like Iron, but also Diamagnetics as Copper, Aluminum, etc) molecular structure, Induced by the Magnetic Field PARTIAL SPINS.

But don't blame yourself for any wrong interpretation about this ancient machine friend...if there are anyone to blame...they are all dead by now...

Our Generation belongs to part of this whole confusion, originated a couple of centuries back...and fortunately, we will be the ones to clarify this whole mess.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[lotec]

Hi UfoPoloitics,
Thanks for the encouraging post, and the links provided. It would have been nice if he did the experiment you described. That would help clarify a lot of things. It looks like a more difficult build, and I suppose he cant be expected to do everything. The second video is quite densely packed, there was no time wasted in there.

Ill take some time to read and properly digest the material you have linked.

Regards.

[bistander]

EM induction

...

it is ALL about that conductive PATH delimited by the two brushes.

Remember Electricity ALWAYS takes the shortest path...and that won't be going around disc circumference...BUT Jumping from brush to brush, which are closer.

All EM Induction does... is to generate an ELECTRON FLOW within a Metal (Not necessarily only ferromagnetics like Iron, but also Diamagnetics as Copper, Aluminum, etc) molecular structure, Induced by the Magnetic Field PARTIAL SPINS.
...

Hi Ufo,

It's not all about the conductive path. You seem to disregard part 2 when he goes to the capacitor. Don't. It is a homopolar generator using a dielectic (insulator) as the disc. So there is no conductive path. There is an inner and an outer electrode (as in capacitor plate). He demonstrates induction when spinning the apparatus. Electromagnetic induction is defined as the creation of a voltage (differential) caused by a changing EM field. Current is not needed. Current will flow as a result of the induced or generated voltage if there is a conductive path (circuit) for such to ocurr.

And electricity does not always take the shortest path. Look at lightning. It is not straight. It zig-zags all over the place. And even in circuits of parallel resistors, electricity (current) doesn't flow in only the resistor with the shortest path. It divides and flows through all the parallel resistors according to the ohmic values.

Take another look at part 2. He flies pretty fast. But he does in fact tell us that the spinning capacitor with the coil is a homopolar generator. I'm amazed that it is able to detect absolute motion. I guess from the universe perspective, absolute motion is pretty abstract, to say the least.

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

It's not all about the conductive path. You seem to disregard part 2 when he goes to the capacitor. Don't. It it a homopolar generator using a dialectic (insulator) as the disc. So there is no conductive path. There is an inner and an outer electrode (as in capacitor plate). He demonstrates induction when spinning the apparatus. Electromagnetic induction is defined as the creation of a voltage (differential) caused by a changing EM field. Current is not needed. Current will flow as a result of the induced or generated voltage if there is a conductive path (circuit) for such to ocurr.

Hi Bistander,

Was that you above?...it seems post have a lot of typos...not typical of you.

Well, because of your "always controversy" it does seems as it is you......maybe writing from a small cell with reduced keyboard.

Getting back to topic...yes, I did watch second video and particularly the fact that he jumps into Capacitance is what bothered me about it.

He obviously uses TWO VERTICAL metal plates instead of just ONE HORIZONTAL plate like in the disc, and that changes COMPLETELY the configuration of original machine.

Particularly I would have REALLY loved if he would have presented FIRST, as a "non concluded continuation from part 1" before moving to a different set...to where only brushes spin while disc and magnet are static. Now this would have shown all of Us a completely different horizon...

Now, if you get Two Plates instead of one...as a capacitor is, then same deal applies as single disc, but fragmented in two metal parts, where the dielectric in between (and btw, accepted that no direct conductive path exhibited here) will do its job as per capacitors properties must be done...Now going in detail here, the outer plate would get a different charge than the inner plate, generating a differential (or Voltage) between them, other words, "A Plus and a Minus" or the exact same thing that occurs when rotating disc CW, and brushes "adopt" a specific and repeatable V polarity according to their outer-inner positioning...capisci?

And electricity does not always take the shortest path. Look at lightning. It is not straight. It zig-zags all over the place. And even in circuits of parallel resistors, electricity (current) doesn't flow in only the resistor with the shortest path. It divides and flows through all the parallel resistors according to the ohmic values.

Take another look at part 2. He flies pretty fast. But he does in fact tell us that the spinning capacitor with the coil is a homopolar generator. I'm amazed that it is able to detect absolute motion. I guess from the universe perspective, absolute motion is pretty abstract, to say the least.

Regards,

bi

Ok, ok...not always "applies" taking the shortest path (understand the lower resistance path as well, which not necessarily relates to shortest physical path)...but. I am not gonna argue with you on that one.

I liked the 2nd video...but he does gets away from the OEM Machine from Faraday, to the point USPTO granted a patent to this invention with capacitance, meaning they (USPTO Examiners) considered a completely different machine than the Homopolar Generator where no conflicts of interest should raise between both machines.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

?

One typo which I corrected. For the heck of it, where are others?

You just don't see the rotating capacitor which he demonstrates and says is a homopolar generator as a homopolar generator. But it is. And the patent hardly necessarily rules that out. One would have to study the claims, which I might do, someday.

bi

[bistander]

Brushes vs plates

...

He obviously uses TWO VERTICAL metal plates instead of just ONE HORIZONTAL plate like in the disc, and that changes COMPLETELY the configuration of original machine.

...

Ufo,

Consider the 2 vertical cylinders as the 2 brushes and the dielectric between the cylinders as the disc.

OK dielectric vs dialectric. Wonder why my spell check didn't pick that up in first post. Nothing's perfect.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo,

Consider the 2 vertical cylinders as the 2 brushes and the dielectric between the cylinders as the disc.

Bistander,

See I just can't consider that option as being the same deal, First, the disc is made of a conductive metal, in this case copper, while dielectric is a non conductive material, an insulator.

A Capacitor is an open charge storage, where it exhibits polarity at each plate, and only closed whenever applied by an External circuit like simply adding a load to it, closing the electric path.

The Copper Disc and the two brushes establish a completely different scenario on this machine just because the electric flow is continuous during operation, and when rotating the disc while brushes are static We are changing or better expressed "REPLACING" that Conductive Path to other portions of the disc where the Induction process will reset again and again to exhaust (output) a steady potential (EMF) as long as RPMs and direction of rotation are constant.

See it another way...The Two brushes are "drawing" or defining a Conductor within copper disc, but as they rotate is like brushing through a very thin "disc-toroidal coil", changing to different conductors that travel from out inwards.

OK dielectric vs dialectric. Wonder why my spell check didn't pick that up in first post. Nothing's perfect.

bi

Maybe you were thinking about Ken Wheeler's Theories again...and the Dielectric Field when you wrote it...


Take care got lot of work to do...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

@Bistander,

By the way, I had a couple of questions for you, which maybe not from this topic, but somehow related because it is about generators:

Say we have a running Generator and we took off its trip (reset) switch which normally opens whenever we overload it...so we have it direct output from generating coils to AC Outlets.

Then we get an amp meter (which shorts circuit out to measure amperes) and insert it on one of its outlets live and neutral wires...along with a Volt Meter in the same two points.

1-I know the farting machine would start to rapidly slow down while shaking...but then, on the electrical generator what would happen if we stay shorting out for a longer period of time?

The answer to above, I believe is that generator Output Coils would burn down, (that IF farting machine won't stall to a stop of course, if it stops is understood that induction will cease and nothing happens) since they carry the higher amperage.

2-The Amp Meter would show MAX AMPS or Surge Amps but only for a few seconds, and as ICE slows down amps would collapse as well, as V Meter will show exactly Zero Volts as soon as Amp Meter is connected...Am I correct here?

I would like to preserve this two questions plus your answers, and if it is necessary I will transfer them to the Figuera Thread.

Thanks in advance


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Point missed

Bistander,

See I just can't consider that option as being the same deal, First, the disc is made of a conductive metal, in this case copper, while dielectric is a non conductive material, an insulator.

A Capacitor is an open charge storage, where it exhibits polarity at each plate, and only closed whenever applied by an External circuit like simply adding a load to it, closing the electric path.

The Copper Disc and the two brushes establish a completely different scenario on this machine just because the electric flow is continuous during operation, and when rotating the disc while brushes are static We are changing or better expressed "REPLACING" that Conductive Path to other portions of the disc where the Induction process will reset again and again to exhaust (output) a steady potential (EMF) as long as RPMs and direction of rotation are constant.

See it another way...The Two brushes are "drawing" or defining a Conductor within copper disc, but as they rotate is like brushing through a very thin "disc-toroidal coil", changing to different conductors that travel from out inwards.

Ufo,

You're missing the point. Current is not required for induction to occur. It doesn't matter if the disc is conductive. Take your trusty old AC generator. Remove loads and all connections from the main winding output terminals. It is what is called no-load or open-circuit. Now run it at rated speed and proper excitation. Put a high impedance voltmeter across the main winding open terminals. You can read full generated voltage, right? There is essentially zero current. Remove the voltmeter. There is now absolutely zero current and the voltage is still there. With zero current in the coils, or windings (or in the disc for the homopolar case), it doesn't matter what the resistance is. It can be very low as with thick copper or very high as with an insulator. You still have induction and still have the voltage across the armature (center and outer diameter in the homopolar case).

Part 2 demonstrates that it is not all about the conductive path between the brushes. So we disagree. Imagine that!

Enough, I guess. Regards.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Ufo,

You're missing the point. Current is not required for induction to occur. It doesn't matter if the disc is conductive. Take your trusty old AC generator. Remove loads and all connections from the main winding output terminals. It is what is called no-load or open-circuit. Now run it at rated speed and proper excitation. Put a high impedance voltmeter across the main winding open terminals. You can read full generated voltage, right? There is essentially zero current. Remove the voltmeter. There is now absolutely zero current and the voltage is still there. With zero current in the coils, or windings (or in the disc for the homopolar case), it doesn't matter what the resistance is. It can be very low as with thick copper or very high as with an insulator. You still have induction and still have the voltage across the armature (center and outer diameter in the homopolar case).

Part 2 demonstrates that it is not all about the conductive path between the brushes. So we disagree. Imagine that!

Enough, I guess. Regards.

bi

Bistander,

I really have no idea why you keep bringing Voltage versus Current in our conversation here, if you look at my post (the one you quoted) I have not mention current there at all.

I know all about you are writing above...but read and answer my last post before this one...then we will engage in V versus A.

For Current to "exist" (exist as to be able to READ it) we must CLOSE circuit from output coils terminals with a load or simply a short by an Amp Meter, while Voltage does not require a closed circuit...basic electricity friend, and I know you know it better than me...


Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT: But I know what you meant...V presence at terminals is just enough to demonstrate Induction...not to me though...I need to know the kind of power we are getting.

[Ufopolitics]

Talking about Current now...

Bistander,

Now related to currAnt (Paraphrasing MM remember? hahaha) and the Homopolar Machine(s)?

Did you know that it was known by its very HIGH Amperage and lower Voltages?

Not only the Faraday OEM, but all that raised based on that same principle going all the way to the N-Machine from DePalma.

Take care


Ufopolitics