Motor Generators

[BroMikey]

Over the years I've been trying to get a point across. If you take the Mecca Alte graph you'll notice that the efficiency tops around the 92% mark. Now this is where folk disagree with me. I say that for speed up under load to be of value
you MUST start from the 92% mark. Anything less and you're only demonstrating normal generator operation.

Yeah so this only matters if you are traveling to MECCA right? It is a teacher told me document. Everything has a ceiling cause teacher told me. This is how I look at it. I guess it works to engineer boat anchor style electric motors that is one massive single core. Our motors have separate cores so nothing fits the EE handbook. Like the science tard that came up with CREATED AND DESTROYED hokous pokous. Science is full of magic tricks

[Quantum_well]

Well Bro I now realise that you do know everything so my efforts are in vain. As for myself I've learned a lot. One of the main things I've come across is the brilliant Vedder control app which allows you to set up your own microprocessor control.
As for me,I'll go on questioning things and learning along the way, there's so much good stuff out there.

[Quantum_well]

What is it meant to be?

https://youtu.be/nMvEbJjTviA

[BroMikey]

Well Bro I now realise that you do know everything so my efforts are in vain. As for myself I've learned a lot.

Share what it is you are talking about in detail. Throwing out theory and big names has no direct baring on the subject. Present in entirety. Explain in detail and bring me up to speed so I have some frame of reference.

[Turion]

What is it meant to be?
https://youtu.be/nMvEbJjTviA

That is a video of Greyland and his friends running a version of the generator that he has at his shop. It is one of my machines. It has 12 coils on the machine-- six on each side of the rotor. Each coil is connected in series with a coil on the opposite side of the rotor directly across from it, so that a rotor magnet comes between the two connected coils. At the correct RPM those coils put out about 130 volts at 1.5 amps. Those numbers are for THAT machine with a different rotor. The original rotor had six 2” diameter by 1/4 thick neo magnets. The current rotor has twelve 3/4 x 3/4 magnets on it, and I have not tested that output. That is what Greyland is attempting to do in the videos he is making as he tries to get EVERYTHING working. The damn machine never held together long enough to do any decent test runs, which is why I moved it to Greyland’s shop and LEFT it there. I was really tired of bringing it home and having it run for five minutes before something else went wrong, and then having to take it BACK to his shop 2 1/2 hours away. Not going there during COVID anyway.

He made that video for ME, not for the public. It was to show me the amps going to each light. Only ONE coil pair was in the ball park, and it was causing the motor to speed up- not what we want. The rest were causing the motor to slow down. Not good either. But it DOES show that coils that are not “neutral” (in resonance) will affect the motor. They will either cause it to slow down and draw more amps, or they will cause it to speed up and draw fewer amps.


You may not believe in resonance. I don't care. That is a term the EE used to describe what is happening. I am not an EE. I know what I know from experiments I have done on the bench. I will leave the explanations to someone else. What I WILL talk about is effects. When you do one thing, something happens. When you do something else, the results change. Those changes, those effects, are visible and measurable, so what I want to talk about is the “EFFECTS” I am seeing on the bench. They are not lies. Every single one can be verified with simple experiments. Some of the “effects” are visible in the video, and that is what I commented on and will comment on again.


I can start my motor up and spin the rotor up to speed. (The machine in Greyland's shop) On start up, the amp draw is greater than my 30 amp meter, so I have no idea how many amps it is pulling, but I know that when it settles down and the rotor is up to speed, the amp draw of the motor is around 7 amps at 36 volts, or 252 watts.


Now, if I start shoving coils into the coil holders, the amp draw of the motor begins to go up and the rpm of the motor goes down. In the Thane debunking video the individual says that Tesla coils actually cause MORE of an amp draw than standard coils, which is the reason he says they are bad. He shows the watts drawn by the motor with no coil in place, with a standard coil in place, and with a Tesla style coil in place, so THERE is your proof that every coil added causes an increase in what the motor draws in watts. What good is speed up under load if the coil had drug the motor down in the first place? I say listen and LEARN. When all my coils unloaded are in place, the amp draw on the motor is over 27 amps which is right at the LIMIT for the MY1020 razor scooter motor. If a (standard) coil is put under load the motor draws MORE amps, and you run the risk of burning up the motor. I have burnt up several. Now bistander says the next step makes no difference to the output of the system, so is of no value, but he is about as dead wrong as a human can be and still be alive. What I learned is that if I now adjust my offsetting magnets properly (even on that rattle trap piece of crap machine) I can lower the amp draw back down to around 9-10 amps, and the RPM of the motor is back up almost to where it was before the coils were put in place. Because the motor is turning at a higher RPM, the coils output more. Because the amp draw has gone back down, I save on input to the drive motor. If these two things don't contribute to the “Output” of the generator, what does? This is why I have no patience for someone like bi, who will not listen. These are VISIBLE, MEASURABLE effects that he could see for himself if he would shut his mouth and build something. I posted a video SHOWING the 7 amp draw of the machine with no coils and than another video of the machine with SOME of the coils in place and the amp draw had gone up. I believe to around 16 or 17 amps. I never showed that it went all the way to 27 amps, but it did. Believe me or don't. It doesn't matter because I know what the TRUTH is. Then I showed a video of it running with ALL the coils in place and the magnets adjusted and it was running at 10-12 amps. (I don't remember exactly, but with further adjustment,he got it down to 9 amps) I still have all those videos. This is real. It is important. And it makes a huge difference in inputs and outputs.


So now we are turning a rotor with all the coils in place and it is costing us barely more than it did to run the machine with NO coils in place. You can't DO THAT with a machine like THIS without the offsetting magnets. I guarantee it. Millions have been spent in research on generator design to LESSEN this 'effect" And if I add more unloaded coils, what does it cost me when I can offset them with the magnets? Not MUCH. And that's the point.


Does it MATTER that the Tesla style coils cost MORE to put in place (as per the debunk video) than the standard coils do? Not when I can bring the cost down to almost NOTHING with the offsetting magnets. Do I care what electrical or scientific principles are involved? Do I care what the correct terms are? Do I care that I don't know everything about electronics that bi knows? No. All I care about is the effect.


So now I load the coils. If they were STANDARD coils, what would happen? Listen to the motor in the video you were asking about when he switches on all the coils. The motor begins to bog down. The RPM goes down and the amp draw goes up. Not so good. It would continue to slow down and the amp draw would continue to climb until the motor smoked. I promise. Try it if you have a motor to spare. But the ONE coil pair he has actually causes the motor to speed up and the amp draw to go DOWN. We don't want that EITHER, because the coils generate the most power when they are NEUTRAL. What we want is coils that, when we flip the switch, put out maximum power and have NO EFFECT whatsoever on the performance of the motor. Why? Because we can have 12 or 15 or 50 of them around the rotor. If they all have offsetting magnets and do not affect the motor, all we get is an INCREASE in power for the same output. THAT IS EFFICIENCY. SO in the video, that coil lit up the light, just like the other coils, only it did NOT slow down the motor. What's THAT worth?


Every SINGLE one of the things I have stated here can be tested. Every single one of them can be verified or debunked. WHY is no generator currently driven by an electric motor? I have shown you the two reasons. Both of them are addressed by this machine. It works. bi can blabber all day long but he cannot disprove what I have seen in front of me on the bench and YOU can see it too.


In the debunking video he admitted that 'speed up under load” coils are real. He just believes they are worthless. I have explained his reason, and shown why he is incorrect. Test it. There isn't ANYTHING I have said that cannot be proven with simple tests. Things a 7th grader could do. Tha is if a 7th grader could build a rotor out of wood, like I did, and coil l bobbins out of wood, like I did (with iron cores, and wind three little coils. But instead, I have gotten ten years of arguments. I can't BELIEVE we don't have any researchers with an open enough mind to wind two lousy coils and build a rotor and PROVE that everything I have said is real. The smaller the build and the smaller the motor the more OBVIOUS it becomes. Someone could take that simple Bedini 5 coil plastic motor, set up one coil as a drive coil and the rest (or at least some of them) as generator coils and TEST the offsetting magnet idea. This is not rocket science. It is simple PHYSICS. Just look at the effects. Find an effect that works for you and figure out how to take advantage of it.

That's it. That's all there is. It is simple. If you cannot build it, I feel sorry for you. If you cannot test it or refuse to test it, shame on you. You shouldn't even BE on a forum like this.

[Quantum_well]

Turion, thank you so much for that detailed explanation. I'll re read it tomorrow when I'm less tired. My health isn't that great these days and the wind and wet this winter has worn me down.
I'm adding a video to this message which I hope you will watch. This demonstrates the benefit of good motor control. A motor that is well controlled is almost silent as you will see. I'd like to see you with a similar motor mounted on the generator shaft thus doing away with a couple of bearings and a drive belt . It's important to determine the optimum speed for the efficiency of your generator which would be easy with a vesc.

https://youtu.be/Iz5bg0DGnp4

[Turion]

I should add something to all that, and no disrespect to Thane intended, because I know he has coils that out perform ANYTHING I have built, but they would HAVE to. I say this because I BUILT the generator with 12 coils on it that are ALL neutral. Meaning they output the MAX amount possible for those coils. The motor was drawing almost 1,000 watts to run, and was right on the ragged edge of burning up. The speed had dropped down to the point where the output of the coils didn't cover the input to the motor. No OU. Not even close. And that was with 12 speed up under load coils. This was BEFORE I had the neutralizing magnets. I still have that original machine which doesn't even have PLACES on it for neutralizing magnets. It didn't give me what I was searching for.

Now I could adjust the coils on that machine and get them to assist the motor, but at the cost of the output going down, so it STILL didn't output more than the input. The very BEST I could do was to get the coils to REALLY speed up the motor to the point that its amps draw was back down to around where it should be and its RPM was close to the rated speed, BUT there was definitely no output above the input. And believe me I tried everything I could think of. For almost a year I worked on it. Then I went looking for a solution to the motor drawing 1000 watts to run, and I found a patent that addressed that issue with magnetic neutralization. So I incorporated THAT into my design and it worked.

I believe what I see on the bench. I can't replicate Thane's stuff because he doesn't share the construction of his coils. I know, because I have ASKED and been told "No" I believe what I can see for myself. Not what someone tells me is true. I give them the benefit of the doubt BUT then I build it to see for myself. Or at least I USED to. No more going down all those different paths for me. I do not know if Thane's stuff works or not. I cannot replicate it and therefore I have NO opinion. But I DO have questions.

Now I have my generator, which I know works, and I have tech with no moving parts based on what we learned with the 3 battery stuff that is way more productive. So I don't need or want anybody else's stuff. I WOULD like to see how Thane's coils work with magnetic neutralization thrown in, but that is already in progress, and some day I will find out. Someone else is working on that who has first hand knowledge of Thane's technology, so I will leave it up to them.

I am not trying to discourage you bro, but what you need to figure out is how to build a coil that puts out WAY more than 130 volts at 1.5 amps for an input to the motor of 360-400 watts. Until you do that, you will NEVER reach OU without magnetic neutralization. Thane may know how to do that and good for him.I couldn't figure it out. And I'm DONE with this project except for presenting at the conference.

[BroMikey]

I should add something to all that, and no disrespect to Thane intended,

I am not trying to discourage you bro, but what you need to figure out is how to build a coil that puts out WAY more than 130 volts at 1.5 amps

thx Dave onward and upward. Make it work 10 minutes at a shot but that heat that melts the coil should be collected in the form of electricity. 50% increase right there. Nickel steel not steel cores.

mig wire spools for welding cast iron is 45% nickel content, cheap test. I I had an extra $50,000 I would send it to you so you could hire something done asap, tic tok

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/11485012331724066213?q=nickel+iron+wire&prds=eto:7896417786206681488_0;9345399072650367821_0;11670275220177366610_0&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEuubzx4HvAhUBbc0KHZwOA1wQ9pwGCAU

[Turion]

How many cores for $100? That’s 2 lb spool. The permalloy BB’s are $1,010 for 5 pounds. So that’s cheaper.

[BroMikey]

How many cores for $100? That’s 2 lb spool. The permalloy BB’s are $1,010 for 5 pounds. So that’s cheaper.

That is why the space age ribbon was produced. It lowers costs. the wire is better than nothing. Now back to the increase. A faster responding core that the usual heat is stored in the magnetic field make it speed up sooner. It will still work on your longer coils. However as speed up is sooner an overall shorter coil lets you increase the amps right there. So that is another extra. You will get higher peak volts and double the amps.

[Turion]

My goal right now is just to come up with cores that will run without heating up. I don’t care what the output is as long as it doesn’t go down too much. As long as the COP is up there it will be a prototype that people will pay attention to. Let others figure out all the needed changes. I just want a working prototype that shows the concepts work and won’t break down every five minutes. I have that even with iron cores. I can run it for about 20 minutes with no danger of melting cores, and that’s good enough. I will try that wire on two coils and see what I get. My friend who has a duplicate machine us trying all kinds of things. I’m sure he will keep after it.

[BroMikey]

42 and alloy 50 means cheaper. this is what we want 50:50 not 100% sure new open box stats missing. generally the nickel content is given a % number, lots 99% out there stay away.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25229320967...kcid=28&chn=ps


https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Nationa...oAAOSwWTRWx3rW

[Turion]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Nationa...oAAOSwWTRWx3rW

On its way.

[Quantum_well]

Hi, I realise you're not interested in my ideas for upping the efficiency of your set ups but I felt that this idea I came across was too good not to share. A grandson was playing with my headphones and they broke.
I tacked th IMG_20210224_104839~2.jpg e break with a bit of Supafix (superglue and powder) Then I wrapped a good amount of black thread round the break, and this is the magic bit, give the thread a soak with superglue and dab dry with some tissue.

[Turion]

bro,
oops! I ordered the OTHER one you linked to.

Quantum,
Not so! I appreciate your input on the motor and motor controller. I realize a direct shaft connection will work better and be more efficient. I agree with everything you’ve said about that and have actually bookmarked the specific products you have posted. I have been researching motors to find what I need at the best price. In most cases I have actually put them in my cart at that site.

My problem is finances. I have a monthly budget for this stuff, and I have to prioritize. Getting a working core material that I don’t have is more important to me than replacing a motor I DO have with a better one. Same goes for a motor controller when I have a couple already that will WORK. To do a direct drive motor I would have to fabricate or have fabricated a new motor mount. It’s just that other things have to come first. If the core material works, I may be able to remove material from current bobbins. If not, I have no more bobbins, so that would be next. Then more wire. Then I could look at replacing the mount, the motor and a better motor controller.

Unfortunately, at the SAME TiME, I am funding another energy project that makes this one obsolete and it requires paying an electrical engineer to design and build some specific pieces, and that does not come cheap! I just spent $800 on THAT project. I would put ALL my resources into THAT project if I hadn’t promised Aaron I would present at the conference. The generator will do what I have claimed it will do with the motor I have and the controller I have and the coils I have. I shouldn’t have to run it for more than about 20 minutes at the conference and it won’t overheat in that amount of time.

I could have put together a fake video that shows all the results I have claimed, but I haven’t. Because I believe people need to test these concepts for themselves. Some will. I imagine after the conference a lot more will. I can’t wait.