Barbosa and Leal Devices - Info and Replication Details

[Wistiti]

asking question...

Level
for me your post is a legetim one and the most important it is respecful.

[citfta]

Yes I agree about Clarence. From what I have seen I believe he is a serious researcher. But there are several others on here that just can stand for someone to ask real questions.

Hello citfta. From what I have see, I don't think Clarence will get involved in personal attacks, but it is possible others might. Personal attacks on an internet forum don't bother me at all, but it does clutter up a thread unnecessarily.

Carroll

[BroMikey]

Hello Clarence. No offense intended at all, but frankly, as I have mentioned before, all indications from what you have said previously here are that your system is not working as a self running device, .............................................

Now, BroMikey or others, before you jump all over me, think about what I am saying. .................................................. .................................................. ............................... Yes, Clarence could just make up some test results, but that is something we would have to look at and try to evaluate.

Hi Level

You are good dude, why so nervous? If you have the right intent in mind why hold back? Clarence can take care of himself. Personally I think
your statements are at best challenging? I mean the guy puts the
phrase "SELF RUNNING" right on his diagrams and you want to
call him a liar.

I am not offended, just wondering how you can equate your evaluation
of Clarence statement that his machine is a "self runner" as misinformation.

Based on Clarence data we see a 70ah battery running a refrigerator, microwave or other things in the kitchen for 4-5 hours. First of all Level I want you and others to know that I am glad you are asking questions, not a bad thing at all.

Let's look at the data PLUS your statements. Your statement demands Clarence do other things that you think are absent in a way that has called him basically a liar.

That is fact number one.

Fact two is now you expect Clarence to comply or else.

Fact three, each time you do this Clarence does not respond to you.

Are we catching on yet? Clarence is the authority here. You are challenging
that authority, okay fine. You want Clarence to show more data because otherwise you don't believe him.

Now I ask you, if you were the one giving this gift to your fellow experimenter friends and Clarence came along calling your gift a lie,
would you favor him? Would you go out of your way to see to it that even after the insults, that Clarence be treated as a special student?

All I am trying to do here is involve some common sense.

Now going back to the simple math that you (LEVEL) did not answer in
another post. Where is the energy coming from running a refrigerator
and other kitchen devices from a 70ah battery?

Let's add it up again, or am I wasting your time because you don't
believe that Clarence has properly documented any data that proves
to you that a refrig and other appliances ran off his system?

Either Clarence did self run or it didn't.

The math shows that just the refrigerator alone could not run off a 70ah
battery 4-5hrs. Do you acknowledge these facts. Can you perform this
simple math function? I wonder because you did not respond before.

This is how you come across.

Okay IF Clarence did run 4-5hrs off his system and IF it is a self runner I need more data. Do you listen to yourself?

I am not worried about Clarence, he is a real man so fire your questions
but for goodness sakes listen to yourselves so you can talk rigth next time.

Now let me show you how to talk to Clarence.

Dear Clarence I am skeptical about so many inventions on the web with their inventors being a fraud and frankly I have become frustrated, disgusted and applaud with all of the misinformation they present.

Can you offer more conclusive data that will cause me to look at your invention any other way? I have built many devices that don't work and I am
beside myself, can you help me?

Don't worry LEVEL you are not the only one.

What about it Clarence? Can you offer this young man any words of wisdom?

Mikey

[level]

BroMikey, I think you probably mean well, even if you are way, way off the mark.

[BroMikey]

BroMikey, I think you probably mean well, even if you are way, way off the mark.

The way you are accusing Clarence of false information is way off the mark, sunny boy.

Stop talking and degrading someone's work you have not taken the time to replicate. I don't care how sweet everybody thinks you are. If you come up here and say Respectfully Sir you are a Liar then where is your proof?

You say that you don't mean to offend but Clarence is deceived and is
not telling us the truth. What is that? Why are you chasing the inventor away, without ever doing the build?

What do you get out of chasing Clarence? I more than mean well, I am well
and I am well enough to know how to talk to people if I have a question.

You are a quiet gentle pushy man. Just a regular guy who thinks Clarence has missed the mark, where is your proof? I ask you to do the math and you ignore me yet you expect an answer from everyone else when you demand.

I asked you a question twice, did you count the number of joules to run a residential refrigerator 4-5hrs? Still you refuse to do the work of proper reasoning to answer simple questions about the input/output because your focus is about discrediting Clarence.

What I want to know is WHY? Who sent you to judge a project you have never built and tested? What do you get out of this?

Okay from the top, you come on here with your friend and try to make everyone think you are a nice guy, but Clarence is false.

You are smearing the whale butter knee deep dude but nobody is buying any of it.

Now when you want to play nice and answer my questions or anyone else's then don't expect people to play into your power trip control freak ego. Respectfully now

You are not in charge of your own thoughts as far as I can tell.

I want Clarence to be free to exchange in a positive light so we as a collective may further his work. If you are not going to build it as Clarence has suggested then you have no business here to critique every bodies build.

Hopefully you will ask your questions properly and we can work together.

[clarence]

Answer was posted way back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Level

You are good dude, why so nervous? If you have the right intent in mind why hold back? Clarence can take care of himself. Personally I think
your statements are at best challenging? I mean the guy puts the
phrase "SELF RUNNING" right on his diagrams and you want want to
call him a liar.

I am not offended, just wondering how you can equate your evaluation
of Clarence statement that his machine is a "self runner" as misinformation.

Based on Clarence data we see a 70ah battery running a refrigerator, microwave or other things in the kitchen for 4-5 hours. First of all Level I want you and others to know that I am glad you are asking questions, not a bad thing at all.

Let's look at the data PLUS your statements. Your statement demands Clarence do other things that you think are absent in a way that has called him basically a liar.

That is fact number one.

Fact two is now you expect Clarence to comply or else.

Fact three, each time you do this Clarence does not respond to you.

Are we catching on yet? Clarence is the authority here. You are challenging
that authority, okay fine. You want Clarence to show more data because otherwise you don't believe him.

Now I ask you, if you were the one giving this gift to your fellow experimenter friends and Clarence came along calling your gift a lie,
would you favor him? Would you go out of your way to see to it that even after the insults, that Clarence be treated as a special student?

All I am trying to do here is involve some common sense.

Now going back to the simple math that you (LEVEL) did not answer in
another post. Where is the energy coming from running a refrigerator
and other kitchen devices from a 70ah battery?

Let's add it up again, or am I wasting your time because you don't
believe that Clarence has properly documented any data that proves
to you that a refrig and other appliances ran off his system?

Either Clarence did self run or it didn't.

The math shows that just the refrigerator alone could not run off a 70ah
battery 4-5hrs. Do you acknowledge these facts. Can you perform this
simple math function? I wonder because you did not respond before.

This is how you come across.

Okay IF Clarence did run 4-5hrs off his system and IF it is a self runner I need more data. Do you listen to yourself?

I am not worried about Clarence, he is a real man so fire your questions
but for goodness sakes listen to yourselves so you can talk rigth next time.

Now let me show you how to talk to Clarence.

Dear Clarence I am skeptical about so many inventions on the web with their inventors being a fraud and frankly I have become frustrated, disgusted and applaud with all of the misinformation they present.

Can you offer more conclusive data that will cause me to look at your invention any other way? I have built many devices that don't work and I am
beside myself, can you help me?

Don't worry LEVEL you are not the only one.

What about it Clarence? Can you offer this young man any words of wisdom?

Mikey

HELLO,

I have repeatedly told members that they simply FAIL TO GRASP the context
of a good part of the information that I put before them and it still remains true! the information that some keep harping on was ALREADY COVERED
IN A PREVIOUS POST!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll recover it in a VERY BASIC kindergarten level so that perception might REIGN!
1. I stated that I had noticed an intermittent problem
2. 2. I stated something that I thought could ALSO (not entirely) have
contributed to the problem.
3. 3.I stated that I KNEW how to cure the problem and was going to do so.
4. family reasons(relatives) and local conditions have prevented me from
doing ANYTHING TO DATE!
5. If you think I am going to rush out to do something that is disruptive to
myself and my personal environment just to satisfy someones personal
whim-------you better think AGAIN!

I will do what I need to do as it fits my needs - not yours - now GET OFF IT!

Go BACK to PAGE 2 POST #44 and put some real eyeballs on!


Clarence

[BroMikey]

The material used in power toroids for 50Hz/60Hz AC use is typically grain oriented silicon steel, which is a different material than ferrites. Ferrites usually are not suitable for frequencies down in the 50Hz to 60Hz range, whereas the grain oriented silicon steel works very well at those low frequencies. The grain oriented silicon steel is formed into thin bands and wound into a toroid. There may be other materials used in 50Hz/60Hz power toroids, but the grain oriented silicon steel material seems to be quite common these days.

Yes you are correct, thanks for clearing this very important fact up. Clarence does not know everything about transformers but that is not needed to make one B&L system work well.

Especially if he is privy to inside information.

Thanks again level.

[BroMikey]

Yeah Clarence that is a good post man thanks. Post 44

I got to reread this stuff again. Thank you for sticking to your guns, standing tall. That is what I need.

Such and open and honest post about your personal struggle to get extra
energy. I understood everything you ever said and have always received
your gift. What a generous offering to us who desire to be free from the energy enslavement's.

The transformers are not a bad price $125 so anyone can afford them. Buying the rods might cost me more so i am looking around.

You are right about some never being able to grasp the concept of getting
energy from the earth and no matter what you say or giving more proof simply does not change their made up minds.

The main thing is that your project is in the public eye now. This is a thrilling device for all.

After I read the B&L patent back and forth SEVERAL TIMES and began to pick
out the important information and discovered the slick way they had disguised some facts, I just did it. the only place I screwed up was that I
did't catch the hidden deception about the transformer type used. just like a big dummy I used a MOT and THAT was a definite FARCE! I smoked a set of looped secondary wires into VAPOR in less than 5 seconds with a single 7AH
battery!! that was a BIG --O S---! I did some more reasearch and found that they were Actually using Toroids. so I've been good ever since.

the next later thing I learned was that I simply needed a LARGER AH battery.
I already they knew they were using the Captor output to self run the device - they openly said so various times. that wasn't a hidden secret
as far as I'm concerned. the charger keeps the batt at 12-13 v up and down.

my location here for ground potential is lousy to say the least and at times
even with sixty rods I can tell that I need another 10 to 20.
when it rains here the potential drops off to under the needed rms voltage
to consistently carry higher loads. and it has been raining here the last 3 days. so what that does is keep the charger from max performance
power wise and the battery voltage because of it will ever sooooo slowly
drop. the last time during rain time I ran it for over 4 + hours and it went
from 13+ to 12 so i removed the loads and let it charge.

so you SEE I have to take my OWN advice about how to MAKE SURE that enough rods + about ten more or so are in place to prevent problems!!

BUT know definitely that this type unit is a winner.
Hope all that helps. I did not mean to ignore you - the time delay was because i simply overlooked your post . I apologize for that Sir.

Thanks for listening.

Clarence

[BroMikey]

To further clarify some of my last statements concerning toroidal core material i refer you to the industry standards. Sales people say many things over the phone that are not exactly right technically.

For instance a salesmen might say that the new toroid materials are a lot like a ferrite material, in that they not like the laminate cores of the past 100 years.

And that is correct. However the industry standards keep changing and transformer specialists are needed these days. HI.

Tortran Alpha core direct division uses the latest NON-OLD STYLE LAMINATE iron cores. And these cores are not unlike designs using ferrite material because the iron dust is aligned before transformer assembly takes place.

This is a space age technology and if you are trying to use the old style laminates such as a Microwave Oven Transformer cores to build a B&L device, man are you in for a big surprise.

Not only is a toroidal core far superior concerning losses using past core materials the new stuff Tortran is offering is better yet.

Here is your document from DIGIKEY eat the whole thing if you are a transformer freak. That's me


http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/...f?redirected=1

[BroMikey]

Here is a company that uses iron powder core material for 60hz
operation but the price is very high.

Micrometals - Iron Powder Cores


Magnetic core - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[BroMikey]

Tortran designs

Here is the answer right from Tortran. They offer free design tech support so here we can see they use "grain oriented"

The good stuff

Download it and enjoy. Now you are all transformer specialist

This is Tortran's design guide free to all

http://www.tortran.com/pdf/tortran_t...sign_guide.pdf

[BroMikey]

nice post very nice

Hello totoalas,

yes B&L in their 2013 demonstration did power their toroid Captor with mains power which only consumed 0.10 amps by the toroids. and that was their point at that time. however the major power that lit their 6 ea 1000 watt lights come from the ground source that he was showing when he lifted and pulled on the green wire to get the audience attention! the phase of the mains he was using also was powering a small amout and that was reflected back thru the meter to the power company so that he was't cheating the power company. they have a SWER type utility system over there.
Single Wire Electrical Rurality.

this unit with the battery and inverter is its OWN SWER system. ground input by inverter neutral and then ground return as neutral with inverter phase. the powered return neutral receiving most of its power from the earth. you can test like that when you get back. since the actual mains power you would be using is reflected back through the meter to the utility company and you would be paying for what you use is legal but I would NOT
do it often. just imagine if you were a utility co and you found that somebody was using you for a Guinea pig and and then just flipping you a few quarters.I don't think they would be happy.

I think that's why the Brazilian power company created difficulties for Barbosa and Leal when they investigated and saw how their system could limit some of their Company revenues. I would be pissed.

that's why I love my unit. It's just me in my unpolluted world doing what I like with out disturbing any others as long as I'm here.


Thanks for listening.

Clarence

[maxolous]

Hello a.King21,

After I read the B&L patent back and forth SEVERAL TIMES and began to pick
out the important information and discovered the slick way they had disguised some facts, I just did it. the only place I screwed up was that I
did't catch the hidden deception about the transformer type used. just like a big dummy I used a MOT and THAT was a definite FARCE! I smoked a set of looped secondary wires into VAPOR in less than 5 seconds with a single 7AH
battery!! that was a BIG --O S---! I did some more reasearch and found that they were Actually using Toroids. so I've been good ever since.

the next later thing I learned was that I simply needed a LARGER AH battery.
I already they knew they were using the Captor output to self run the device - they openly said so various times. that wasn't a hidden secret
as far as I'm concerned. the charger keeps the batt at 12-13 v up and down.

my location here for ground potential is lousy to say the least and at times
even with sixty rods I can tell that I need another 10 to 20.
when it rains here the potential drops off to under the needed rms voltage
to consistently carry higher loads. and it has been raining here the last 3 days. so what that does is keep the charger from max performance
power wise and the battery voltage because of it will ever sooooo slowly
drop. the last time during rain time I ran it for over 4 + hours and it went
from 13+ to 12 so i removed the loads and let it charge.

so you SEE I have to take my OWN advice about how to MAKE SURE that enough rods + about ten more or so are in place to prevent problems!!

BUT know definitely that this type unit is a winner.
Hope all that helps. I did not mean to ignore you - the time delay was because i simply overlooked your post . I apologize for that Sir.

Thanks for listening.

Clarence

@all ,this guy has an Over unity that self run, since he could put off the load for the system to self charge his battery. in other word his system could run it parts and still charge battery. Here the size of charger come to play while still bearing in mind numbers of rod s

[level]

Hello Clarence. While adding more ground rods might possibly improve things some more, as I mentioned in a previous comment, you could possibly already be around the point where adding more ground rods won't make much further noticeable improvement. I think you are currently at 60 ground rods? Something else to consider however is the information I pointed out yesterday, which is well established in the electrical power industry, that wider spacing between ground rods will give a lower resistance connection to the earth. The ideal spacing between ground rods was listed as about 25 feet (7.6 meters), with around 6 foot spacing being a compromise spacing.

Barbosa and Leal were said to have advised a person who obtained one of their captor devices from them to use 40 ground rods of 1.4 inch to 2 inch diameter, spaced over an area of 50 x 30 meters, which I calculated out to be a ground rod spacing of approximately 23 feet (7 meters). Since this information came from someone who was said to have obtained a device directly from Barbosa and Leal, it is worth considering. This recommended ground rod spacing mentioned of around 7 meters spacing between ground rods is consistent with what would be considered to be around an ideal spacing for ground rods for lowest resistance earth ground connection.

A 50 x 30 meter area of ground is a large area which is probably not very practical for most people, and the recommendation of using 1.4 inch to 2 inch diameter pipe would also seem to be quite difficult to embed in the ground, and there would be 40 of these to embed in the ground. I have to wonder if Barbosa and Leal specified a very difficult to meet ground rod requirement for their device that few people could realistically achieve, so that if people came back to them and said the device was not working, they could say that, well, you didn't install the ground rods to their stringent requirements, so that is why the device is not working. It could possibly be that you really do need such a large ground rod arrangement in place however. If such a major ground rod grid is necessary, it makes me wonder how Barbosa and Leal could have demonstrated their devices at different locations, if they have done so, as it is not likely these demo locations would have such an expansive earth ground system in place. If Barbosa and Leal have demonstrated their devices at different locations, then it seems the earth ground requirements at these different locations should have been a major obstacle to putting on such a demo.

Edit: Clarence, if you think that you are close to achieving a self runner, then maybe increasing the spacing of your ground rods to something like six feet, wherever you can manage it, will be enough to get you where you need to be.
Possibly even just having 30 ground rods total with 6 foot spacing may be better than 60 ground rods with 3 foot spacing. It may not be that your earth ground is so bad in your area, although that is certainly possible. It may just be that you have your ground rods spaced too close together.


You PEOPLE are just NOT GRASPING what I am SAYING!!! If you could at LEAST grasp at a KINDERGARTEN level of what I am SAYING, you would be there ALREADY!!!
Just kidding.

[clarence]

Hello Clarence. While adding more ground rods might possibly improve things some more, as I mentioned in a previous comment, you could possibly already be around the point where adding more ground rods won't make much further noticeable improvement. I think you are currently at 60 ground rods? Something else to consider however is the information I pointed out yesterday, which is well established in the electrical power industry, that wider spacing between ground rods will give a lower resistance connection to the earth. The ideal spacing between ground rods was listed as about 25 feet (7.6 meters), with around 6 foot spacing being a compromise spacing.

Barbosa and Leal were said to have advised a person who obtained one of their captor devices from them to use 40 ground rods of 1.4 inch to 2 inch diameter, spaced over an area of 50 x 30 meters, which I calculated out to be a ground rod spacing of approximately 23 feet (7 meters). Since this information came from someone who was said to have obtained a device directly from Barbosa and Leal, it is worth considering. This recommended ground rod spacing mentioned of around 7 meters spacing between ground rods is consistent with what would be considered to be around an ideal spacing for ground rods for lowest resistance earth ground connection.

A 50 x 30 meter area of ground is a large area which is probably not very practical for most people, and the recommendation of using 1.4 inch to 2 inch diameter pipe would also seem to be quite difficult to embed in the ground, and there would be 40 of these to embed in the ground. I have to wonder if Barbosa and Leal specified a very difficult to meet ground rod requirement for their device that few people could realistically achieve, so that if people came back to them and said the device was not working, they could say that, well, you didn't install the ground rods to their stringent requirements, so that is why the device is not working. It could possibly be that you really do need such a large ground rod arrangement in place however. If such a major ground rod grid is necessary, it makes me wonder how Barbosa and Leal could have demonstrated their devices at different locations, if they have done so, as it is not likely these demo locations would have such an expansive earth ground system in place. If Barbosa and Leal have demonstrated their devices at different locations, then it seems the earth ground requirements at these different locations should have been a major obstacle to putting on such a demo.

Edit: Clarence, if you think that you are close to achieving a self runner, then maybe increasing the spacing of your ground rods to something like six feet, wherever you can manage it, will be enough to get you where you need to be.
Possibly even just having 30 ground rods total with 6 foot spacing may be better than 60 ground rods with 3 foot spacing. It may not be that your earth ground is so bad in your area, although that is certainly possible. It may just be that you have your ground rods spaced too close together.


You PEOPLE are just NOT GRASPING what I am SAYING!!! If you could at LEAST grasp at a KINDERGARTEN level of what I am SAYING, you would be there ALREADY!!!
Just kidding.

Hello LEVEL,

I have used various length spacing from the beginning, and reconfigured it as I went! ie., 10', 8',6',4', to 3'.

want to quess which gave the best AVI (average voltage improvement?
I'll never tell-- I'm still useing the 3'.

Performance is the best judge and NOT theory.

I am in the process of rebuilding my unit on a nice larger shop cart I bought
so as to have more room on the top level for Captor and circuits and put Charger,Battery ,and inverter on bottom - still visible but not in the way.

it will be awhile before I can run it but OH well.
here it has rained 8" in 6 days and rained again last night and into this morning. so wet the grass has a sour smell (swamp like effect).
looking forward to the summer mode when everything returns to normal.
I like the heat!

thanks for listening

Clarence