Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[gotoluc]

Ok, I see what your saying Luc... when it's shorted your saying it relieves pressure on the rotor ( allowing it to speed up per say )... No I don't see a change. But... when you add the resistive load it does bump the scale.

I just finished making up a quick video

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1fY...ature=youtu.be

Is this what your talking about?

Thanks for making the new video dragon

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about.

When the resistance is small, like 1 ohm, there won't be much effect back to the prime mover, like I demonstrated in my video but the wattage across the load is small since the voltage clamps down. Now put a 25 Ohm load on and the voltage doesn't get clamped down as much and now you have more watts output but at a cost to the prime mover.

I think more tests need to be done to determine if there is an advantage in using this effect compared to a normal generator before embarking in very expensive builds.

Luc

[shylo]

coil shorting

Hi All, Dragon , Luc, That method of shorting the coils won't work.
I put the output through a bridge , into a cap bank, and draw off the caps intermittently
The short is instant when the magnet pole is dead center of the coil, at that time the caps are disconnected from the load.
This allows the cap banks to charge higher .
The problem I have is getting the switch times right ,as I use mechanical, no electronics knowledge what so ever.
Thanks for the vids, great info.
artv

[dragon]

Very enlightening Luc, thanks. I'm not sure we are looking at the same thing in the two variations... maybe we are but in different ways...

What I'm seeing, on my small unit, is an input requirement of 20 watts to overcome and maintain a given rpm. When a load ( the 5w bulb ) is connected input increases to 20.82 watts.

Overall that is pretty poor for any generator but I'm primarily looking at the current production and relation to changing input at this point. Take it a step beyond - connecting it to a transformer, where current is needed to manipulate a magnetic field - when the transformer is heavily loaded the current rises to full output of the generator and we have reasonable power on the high side.

Then, lets consider the possible changes to the stator to increase either voltage or current. Currently, I have 6 coils of 90 turns ( 540 turns total in series ) producing 19 volts RMS open with .8 amps shorted at 1400 rpms.

So what would happen if we had 540 turns per coil and because of the increased resistance our current production dropped to .5 amps ( going from 2 ohms to 7 ). If wired in parallel we can achieve 3 amps at the same voltage or 114 volts at .5 amps in series. We could also use any combination of coils to achieve a given response to use the stator for various output tasks. These coils can be independently wound for specific tasks to offset voltage and current based on a given task.

The key aspect is the fact we can generate a high current outputs without effecting the prime mover with a predictable and calculated outcome... from there it's simply a matter of imagination...

At this point there are still a lot of unknowns that we can slowly and methodically remove as we continue to experiment...

[dragon]

Last video for a while....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dord...ature=youtu.be

Not to bad for a tiny 3 inch rotor....

[gotoluc]

What I'm seeing, on my small unit, is an input requirement of 20 watts to overcome and maintain a given rpm. When a load ( the 5w bulb ) is connected input increases to 20.82 watts.

If that is what the math works out to be then I would say that is encouraging since an extra .82 watts seems to be less then the wattage the bulb is dissipating.
Have you connected a true rms meter to the bulb to measure its voltage?

I would suggest a 5W 10 Ohm resistor and a 5W 1 Ohm resistor for more reliable power calculations. But you would need a true RMS AC meter for a reliable voltage reading or a scope.

I don't understand your new video. What is it you are testing?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[dragon]

Luc, It's the same alternator with different windings....

[gotoluc]

Luc, It's the same alternator with different windings....

WoW!... that's impressive!... am I reading this correctly, you have up to 28 Amps with the coil shorted with drill full out?
Does this change affect the scale readings? or is it still the same 20 watts input?

Can you please share what the changes in the winding are, like heavier wire gauge, thinner wire more turns and so on?

Thanks for your time

Luc

[jimboot]

Last video for a while....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dord...ature=youtu.be

Not to bad for a tiny 3 inch rotor....

Exsqueeze me?



Not bad? That's frigging insane.

[dragon]

I started out this morning on a quest... I mentioned before that I wasn't sure if the poor steel I used for the directors in the rotor were limiting the output ( saturating ) or if that was the highest possible output using these magnets in this configuration.

At this point I believe the only limit here is geometry. I still maintain all other rules apply in alternator design. Yes, Luc, Input remains the same and it was wound with heavy wire - 8 ga.

It is impressive but you have to realize there still isn't any "power" here just raw amperage. But... amperage is the most difficult part of making power where voltage can be manipulated. This is the part that I was seeing and I think others didn't or haven't yet... amperage is the cause of magnetic fields and adversely the cause of Lenz forces on a moving magnetic field which directly influences input. Lenz law is still in full force here, it's simply being re-directed.

[gotoluc]

Yes, Luc, Input remains the same and it was wound with heavy wire - 8 ga.

It is impressive but you have to realize there still isn't any "power" here just raw amperage. But... amperage is the most difficult part of making power where voltage can be manipulated. This is the part that I was seeing and I think others didn't or haven't yet... amperage is the cause of magnetic fields and adversely the cause of Lenz forces on a moving magnetic field which directly influences input. Lenz law is still in full force here, it's simply being re-directed.

No change to the scale ... that's very impressive!!!
Just about as impressive as you winding no. 8 gauge wire on those small cores... not an easy thing to do

How many turns on each cores were you able to get?
What's your open coil voltage with drill full out?

I agree! with no change to scale, this is very good proof of a Full Lenz re-direct in action

Excellent craftsmanship and test my friend

And thanks for sharing

Luc

[dragon]

Luc, I managed to get 2 1/2 turns per coil segment, total of 15 turns in the whole thing - open voltage measured, full out ( 1400 rpm ) at .5

I'm still processing all that I did today, I'm considering putting the pincore back to its original state in light of today's results. This is going to take some thought but I can see a complete redesign needed here...

[jimboot]

I started out this morning on a quest... I mentioned before that I wasn't sure if the poor steel I used for the directors in the rotor were limiting the output ( saturating ) or if that was the highest possible output using these magnets in this configuration.

At this point I believe the only limit here is geometry. I still maintain all other rules apply in alternator design. Yes, Luc, Input remains the same and it was wound with heavy wire - 8 ga.

It is impressive but you have to realize there still isn't any "power" here just raw amperage. But... amperage is the most difficult part of making power where voltage can be manipulated. This is the part that I was seeing and I think others didn't or haven't yet... amperage is the cause of magnetic fields and adversely the cause of Lenz forces on a moving magnetic field which directly influences input. Lenz law is still in full force here, it's simply being re-directed.

Wow -
I certainly haven't seen amperage like that. Just had to look up 8 ga in metric. Yikes! Looks like what I use for fencing 3.26mm for the more metric minded. What voltage range are you in when you say no real power? mV?
well done man

[gotoluc]

Luc, I managed to get 2 1/2 turns per coil segment, total of 15 turns in the whole thing - open voltage measured, full out ( 1400 rpm ) at .5

I'm still processing all that I did today, I'm considering putting the pincore back to its original state in light of today's results. This is going to take some thought but I can see a complete redesign needed here...

Well, if you had a 0.01 Ohm shunt and measure 0.45vrms across it, you would have 20 Watts output.

Maybe I should wait to replicate your second build to see what new ideas you come up with.

I was thinking, there's still many variables unknown, like mass of directors based on PM flux strength, coil core mass based on director mass. Air gaps between magnets, directors and coils. Do they just cause losses or are they needed somehow to balance the effect? since in your 2nd build you have large air gaps between magnets and directors by using flat magnets but somehow still getting a good effect.
Is there a benefit to have Iron mass behind the magnets as you did in your build?

The big questions will be, can the directors be made of Iron Power core to reduce Eddies compared to solid Iron and still get the effect?

Just thinking here

Luc

[jimboot]

Well, if you had a 0.01 Ohm shunt and measure 0.45vrms across it, you would have 20 Watts output.

Maybe I should wait to replicate your second build to see what new ideas you come up with.

I was thinking, there's still many variables unknown, like mass of directors based on PM flux strength, coil core mass based on director mass. Air gaps between magnets, directors and coils. Do they just cause losses or are they needed somehow to balance the effect? since in your 2nd build you have large air gaps between magnets and directors by using flat magnets but somehow still getting a good effect.
Is there a benefit to have Iron mass behind the magnets as you did in your build?

The big questions will be, can the directors be made of Iron Power core to reduce Eddies compared to solid Iron and still get the effect?

Just thinking here

Luc

And they are ceramic mags too right?

The iron behind the mags certainly greatly amplifies their strength. I found this on some of my builds. If I only put steel behind a single mag it would unbalance the rotor as that mag became stronger.

As was pointed out in the Dan Davidson vid, strength of mag, mass of the directors, coil size etc. lots of variables to tinker with.

[gotoluc]

And they are ceramic mags too right?

The iron behind the mags certainly greatly amplifies their strength. I found this on some of my builds. If I only put steel behind a single mag it would unbalance the rotor as that mag became stronger.

As was pointed out in the Dan Davidson vid, strength of mag, mass of the directors, coil size etc. lots of variables to tinker with.

I don't think so Jimboot, they look to be 1/8 inch thick Neo's
The Neo's I've been playing with are 1/2 inch thick 1" x 2" so it is quite impressive dragon's flux transfer is that good considering the air gap he has on the PM side of the directors.

Also, dragon said the voltage was 0.5vac open coil

Luc