Basic Free Energy Device

[soundiceuk]

So you are running the motor from the potential difference between the positive on the 24v bank and the positive on the 12v bank?

That sounds pretty cool!

[a.king21]

Benitez

Everything I learned about running loads on potential difference I learned either FROM Matt or BECAUSE of Matt. He introduced me to the Benitez patents, and the more you read of Benitez, the more you will understand that THE only problem Benitez had with running EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING off of potential differences was MAINTAINING the potential difference at a specific voltage required by the load (between the positives.) He did not have the electrical components we have today. The boost circuit does EXACTLY what he tried FOREVER to accomplish. (At least for DC voltages) If that is not enough of a hint for people, I GIVE UP trying to help anybody out with anything. We showed everybody the boost circuit MONTHS ago and sat back and waited to see what would happen. Either the people who have figured it out have gone dark, nobody has TRIED it, or (my personal opinion) only a very few are BUILDING anything.

I believe EVERYTHING that runs on DC power should be run off the potential difference. The same could be said for AC, but most folks don't have the equipment lying around to make THAT happen, so take the first step and do it with DC. Or don't. There are some pretty sharp folks out there who have made some contributions to our community who I am pretty sure are doing the same thing with AC RIGHT NOW, but that's not something to mess with if you don't know what you are doing. Some of my stuff is putting out over 400 volts continuous DC, so I know how tricky that can be. One mistake is all it takes and you are DONE.

You might be interested in one of my earlier Benitez experiments. You can gauge the quality of the output by analysing the neon.

Essentially it proves that if you charge one plate of a cap through the single wire method, the earth ground will charge the other plate as per Benitez's diagram.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnee3xSxP4U

[Turion]

soundiceuk,
In a word, "yes." That is where we are running the motor...between the positives That is where I have BEEN running it for the last 8 years of my research into this and all through my posting about it on this thread and the 3 Battery Generating System thread.


However, we've discovered that a motor, as perfect as it is used this way, is perhaps not the BEST "load" to put in that position. Other things MAY yield more power output. That is what we are currently researching.

But, if you want to build a free energy device, you can't get much simpler than running a motor this way and using the motor to run a generator. The output of the generator will be many times what gets used up by the motor running in this configuration. Of course I have been saying THAT for years too, and nobody has listened to THAT either. But I have built some REALLY BIG generators that have proved it to myself and a few others. And I am tired of trying to convince others of the potential of this kind of system, so I haven't been sharing all my results and probably won't until I make enough off of some of this stuff to pay for all the time and money I have put in. At some point you have to make a few bucks or you can't afford to continue the research.
Dave

[DavidE]

Turion

so I haven't been sharing all my results and probably won't until I make enough off of some of this stuff to pay for all the time and money I have put in.

That is your ego talking Dave, not your heart. True open source doesn't have any agenda but putting results on a table for all to consider.

If what you create is really for the benefit for all, as you have stated many times - don't allow the negative part of the equation to be your guide. No matter how much you spend in the world of FE, it doesn't owe you or anyone else anything.

If we all adopt the same attitude, when the ego dictates, we will each covet the secret sauce and never accomplish what we could together.

Peace friend.

[dragon]

That may be true, but in a potential system you will never pull a load, catch the extra power and put back more in the battery that is delivering that energy. You can only charge the charging battery. We are not talking about a car or a solar system.

Matt

Ok Matt, My mind was in a different place. I played around with battery switching some years back - running on potentials. Quite interesting....

[Mario]

Dave, I think the easiest way to demonstrate the potential system is to use 4 new or top condition batteries. Two charged ones in series and two discharged ones in parallel.
You run your motor+generator, or better, a boost converter between the positives and route the output of the converter to the charging parallel batteries. It's probably better to cap dump to the batteries 1 or 2 volts above it.

If after a few cycles (with resting periods) your 4 batteries are completely charged it definitely means that it works.

regards,
Mario

[Turion]

Mario,
That's what I have been doing for the last 8 years. By this time I have a pretty good idea of whether it works or not. I have several different battery banks I have used, including one of all 6 volt deep cycle golf cart batteries. I feel no need to PROVE any of this to anybody anymore. The people who build it will see for themselves, and seeing it on the bench in front of you is the only way you can really know if it works.

[Mario]

Dave, I wasn't suggesting for you to prove it to anyone, I just think it's probably the easiest setup for people to prove it to themselves.
Instead of trying to calculate what's left in the batts and how many joules where "burned" in a lamp bulb or other load…
If from 2 charged, and 2 discharged batts you get 4 charged ones it's pretty obvious. Then once one is convinced he can find many ways to put a system together…

regards,
Mario

[Matthew Jones]

Turion



That is your ego talking Dave, not your heart. True open source doesn't have any agenda but putting results on a table for all to consider.

If what you create is really for the benefit for all, as you have stated many times - don't allow the negative part of the equation to be your guide. No matter how much you spend in the world of FE, it doesn't owe you or anyone else anything.

If we all adopt the same attitude, when the ego dictates, we will each covet the secret sauce and never accomplish what we could together.

Peace friend.

Ya well when you start showing yours, then we'll weigh in on that. When you spend money to find answers we'll consider you. But so far all we hear is talk and not a ounce of support in equal research or financial support. Just talk!!!
Your kinda talk, "Give me, give me, give me... I somehow deserve it. I am noble heart with all good intentions"....PSSS! Nothing but lazy pacifist BS
Put your money or time where your mouth is, then you get to see good things.

Matt

[citfta]

Turion



That is your ego talking Dave, not your heart. True open source doesn't have any agenda but putting results on a table for all to consider.

If what you create is really for the benefit for all, as you have stated many times - don't allow the negative part of the equation to be your guide. No matter how much you spend in the world of FE, it doesn't owe you or anyone else anything.

If we all adopt the same attitude, when the ego dictates, we will each covet the secret sauce and never accomplish what we could together.

Peace friend.

I know Dave personally. He has spent thousands of dollars (maybe 10s of thousands) and 8 years of his life totally dedicated to this pursuit of free energy. I know he has spent many many 20 hour days doing nothing but working on these projects. He has also shared 90 percent or more of what he has learned and almost no one even builds the simplest of circuits to try out his ideas or to test his findings.

So what have you built? How much money have you invested? How much have you shared? How many years have you actually worked on the pursuit of free energy and not just trolled the forums looking for someone else that has done the work so you can copy it?

I can't speak for Dave but I know in the past he has helped those that have actually been building. You want to learn what Dave knows. Build something and make a video. Show Dave what you have and ask questions about it. Maybe, just maybe he will still be willing to share some insight with you. I am still not speaking for Dave but I am pretty sure sitting on your butt and whining "Give me, Give me." is going to get you nothing more than what has already been shared. And that is a lot.

There is plenty of information in what Dave has posted to keep anyone busy for several months learning and testing and perfecting their own system.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[Wistiti]

All,
I'm not trying to be an ass about this, but based on some things that have been said, I'm NOT sure everyone here has a real understanding of potential based systems, so I am going to take you through "Potential Based Systems 101." You may already know all this. If so, I apologize, but I am sure it will benefit SOMEONE.

First, let me throw out MY two bit theory of electricity as it specifically pertains to DC power from a battery. I believe the power comes out of the battery, goes through the load with absolutely MINIMAL losses, and back into the other side of the battery where that power DIES. It isn't the load that "kills" the power, it is the battery itself. If you can keep from sending that power into the ground on the battery to die, you can use it over and over and over. Hence my attraction to potential based systems.

Imagine you have four batteries you have charged up to MAX with your charger. It couldn't possibly raise the voltage in any of those batteries by .01 volts if you left the charger on for days. (TRY THIS...I have)

Is the charge that is in each battery going to be exactly the same as the charge in all the other batteries? I doubt it. They will probably ALL be different. Now if you connect all the positives together and all the negatives together and let the batteries sit overnight, what will happen? You will come out the next morning and all four batteries will have EXACTLY the same charge in them. WHY? Because that energy flows like water and wants to equalize. And here is the interesting part. The batteries that were high went DOWN but the batteries that were lower went UP, EVEN THOUGH YOUR CHARGER HAD CHARGED THEM TO THE MAX. You actually increased the POTENTIAL of these batteries to receive energy by doing this. Some batteries went "down" but did you "lose" this energy, or did it just transfer over to the batteries that were lower and went up? Try it and YOU tell ME.

Take two of these batteries and put them in series to make one big battery that has a positive and a negative. You now have a 24 volt "big" battery. For purposes of something I will talk about later, I want you to remember that this is the "HIGH VOLTAGE SIDE". Now connect your other two batteries in parallel with the "big" battery. What you really have is a battery that is charged to 24 volts and two batteries that are at 12 volts. If you leave them set, connected in parallel, what do you think is going to happen? The "battery" that is at 24 volts is going to decrease and the two batteries at 12 volts are going to increase. Do you lose any energy, or does it just move from the battery with more energy to the battery with less energy and actually INCREASE the potential of that battery with less energy to absorb a charge? You HAVE to do the simple experiments over and over and over to understand what is going on and how to make the best use of it.

Let's try that same experiment again, but this time between the positive of the big battery and the positives of the two batteries in parallel we place a motor. Now as the energy moves from the 24 volt side to the 12 volt side, it runs the motor. Dos the motor use up this energy as it moves through? Well some is lost as heat in the wires, but mostly NO, it is not lost. It travels through the motor and out the other side and equalizes the batteries just like before, only it ran our load along the way...basically for free. TRY IT WITH and WITHOUT the motor and compare the results. This motor was not really a "LOAD" because it USED no (or very little) energy.

And it isn't the "load" that determines how much power moves through it, it is the potential difference.

For instance, if I have two batteries in series...One is charged to 12.2 and the other is charged to 12.7....Their combined voltage when wired in series is 24.9.
When you put a load between the positives of these two batteries in series and a third battery that is charged to 12.9, you have a potential difference of 12 volts. If what you are trying to run needs EXACTLY 12 volts to run, it will immediately start running. And will probably run for a while before stopping. Why will it stop? Because as battery 3 charges to greater than 12.9 and the total voltage of the two in series drops to less than 24.9, you no longer have the potential difference of 12 volts to run the load. It's that simple. Thats why a 12 volt motor is a great load. It will run on less than 12 volts, so can continue running even though the potential difference goes down. But at some point, when the batteries in series have gone down and the batteries in parallel have gone up, the potential difference is so little that the motor stops. You should have switched batteries around long before that. This change in the potential difference was the thing that Benitez fought to deal with for YEARS, because the load will no longer run.

You really need a minimum of three sets of two batteries. Two in series providing the 24 volt side. Two in parallel to be charged. And two that are resting after being charged. It would be even better, if you could afford it, to have one extra set of two. The batteries that have just been discharged could move to a rest position to recover, and two batteries that WERE in this rest position move into the position to be charged. If you follow one group of batteries through the cycle it would be
1. Provide power (in series)
2. Rest
3. Charge (in parallel)
4. Rest

Now the boost circuit assures that the voltage that is hitting the charging batteries is HIGH enough to assure proper charging, and it EXTENDS the time that this happens. Because it accepts a "range of voltages" and puts it out at 16 volts (when you set it to) it continues to hit the charging batteries with 16 volts even when the potential difference has gone down below 12 volts a ways.

When do you want to switch batteries around??? When the charge hitting the charge batteries drops below two volts above the charge battery voltage. Because a DC motor PULSES, the charge that hits the charging batteries is a PULSED CHARGE, and you want it to be 2 volts over the battery voltage at all times. The boost circuit takes care of this. With careful management, you can make sure your charging batteries are always being properly charged.

This is a potential based system. You are not USING the power, you are moving it around to do work without sending it to ground and destroying it.

If the motor you are running with this system is used to turn a generator you have a bit of extra power to top off your batteries from time to time, or take one generator coil and use it to cap dump charge a couple batteries to go into the rotation once in a while. No matter HOW you look at it, this is the basis of an over unity system. How FAR over unity is up to you. How big a generator can you run with that motor? How efficient it it? How much power will it put out?

Oh, and then what if the output of the GENERATOR you are running becomes the HIGH VOLTAGE SIDE (remember I talked about that above) of a BIGGER potential based system. That runs a BIGGER motor that turns a BIGGER generator. Work your way up until you are running the country on your eight 12 volt batteries.

AM I crazy? Oh yeah!

Thank you Dave; It is really clear!

[erfinder]

Siding with the individual who is getting his ass handed to him is generally not the smartest move, I am not known to be the smartest and with that being said, I must agree with part of what DavidE suggests.

If we covet our most prized secrets, if we hide our insights from one another, if we do not share unimpeded, our impressions with the community, there can be no progress amongst the few who can and are doing what we can within the community, and no hope of inducing through inspiration new thoughts, ideas, and dreams within others, both old and new to this our collective journey. When I look to the horizon, I see a vast a mono-culture. A landscape which is void of any and all diversity. One perspective, the collective accepted perspective, we have been down this road. I personally refuse to trade one dogma for another, one agreed upon idea for another agreed upon idea, the latter of which gets me no closer to where I want to be than the previous agreed upon idea.

Stagnation is the unquestionable status of the community at large. The field has collapsed so to speak, and there has been no re-connection back to the source. As such, no motivating power is given to the charges, the researchers within this conductor, the forum. The mechanism of self induction is operating full strength within a few, and at times we experience mutual induction between us, but this need for mutual interaction across disciplines, or more accurate, perspectives, is seen less as we are disinterested in what others do, as we become content with what we are discovering in our own little worlds. The commitment to our own ideas, the shutting out of impression of others is impedance at work. We are unnecessarily setting up impedance between each other, the type of impedance we are establishing will only result in the impedance growing till it reaches the point when effectively, conductance or in this case, communication and cooperation equals zero. See the truth of this in what can be considered as"real" work being done, real exchanges being made between thinking, feeling, researchers. These platforms were once filled with the chatter of men and women with vision, working in cooperation and collaboration, their motivation, demonstrating that the impossible is indeed possible. These platforms are now a shadow of their former selves.

We see the structure of this "organization" and should understand by now the order of business as it is practiced within these circles.

These platforms are think tanks, a research platform where alpha and beta testing of prepared ideas can be carried out under supervision. We are unpaid, non funded volunteers. We willingly come here and present our ideas regarding the prepared information and our own voluntary information without representation. We willingly submit our intellectual property, (assuming you consider yourself as an organization and or corporation of course) to those who have the power and financial wherewithal to do with our ideas as they please. The organizers of such platforms are in a word, genius, the sponsors behind the organizers are organized, competent, dedicated, financially stable, goal oriented individuals, who are not dissuaded from their goal.

Knowing this, knowing who you are while you are here, knowing that your ideas are read and processed by whom ever visits the community, no account is necessary to read/study information presented within these pages, knowing that good idea that originated from you, however, isn't recognized by you as being such can and more than likely will be exploited by one who recognizes a good thing when they see it, and is in the position to to do the same, why come here at all!

It can get dark really fast, and stay dark if you aren't careful. I know who I am while I am here, I know why I am here, and both regardless of that which I cannot control. I am here to exchange with, and cooperate with my fellow researchers. We have more than enough reasons for hiding what we think we have, and no reason to share, save one. That one reason is and should be personal to each individual. As a rule, we should find that personal reason to share unimpeded or commit to not sharing at all.


Regards

[Bob Smith]

I know Dave personally. He has spent thousands of dollars (maybe 10s of thousands) and 8 years of his life totally dedicated to this pursuit of free energy. I know he has spent many many 20 hour days doing nothing but working on these projects. He has also shared 90 percent or more of what he has learned and almost no one even builds the simplest of circuits to try out his ideas or to test his findings.

So what have you built? How much money have you invested? How much have you shared? How many years have you actually worked on the pursuit of free energy and not just trolled the forums looking for someone else that has done the work so you can copy it?

I can't speak for Dave but I know in the past he has helped those that have actually been building. You want to learn what Dave knows. Build something and make a video. Show Dave what you have and ask questions about it. Maybe, just maybe he will still be willing to share some insight with you. I am still not speaking for Dave but I am pretty sure sitting on your butt and whining "Give me, Give me." is going to get you nothing more than what has already been shared. And that is a lot.

There is plenty of information in what Dave has posted to keep anyone busy for several months learning and testing and perfecting their own system.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Really don't want to drag this out, but I know DavidE, and he is a researcher and builder who shares his findings with others here and off-site. He's not a gimme-gimme kind of guy.
I think most of us are trying to get to the same place, and that includes DavidE, Dave and many others.
Bob

[erfinder]

Ok....so just finished reviewing the first few pages of this thread. Seems the path that was set was to be a discussion and walk through as it were of the

Bedini Free Energy Generator

That discussion was immediately derailed by discussion of the 3BGS. Hell x pages into the thread and 3BGS still dominates the discussion. So here's that question which I have yet to hear anyone answer. Here is where I come into this discussion, the original discussion.

What is an energizer?

Regards

[Turion]

Thoughts

Erfinder,
You are correct. This thread was started to discuss a basic working free energy device.
A motor
An energizer
A circuit
Flywheel
But if you read the first two posts I made you would also have read that my intention was to base my discussion NOT on the device built by John B, even though I started by talking about him, but on a device built by Matt Jones, which I replicated and then scaled up to a MUCH larger device which I have been working on for two years. I also specifically stated my reasons for this as being that while John B's device and its larger counterpart, the Watson machine, have been much talked about over the years, there is a lack of specifics. What was the size of the coil, length of wire, core material, size of core, core material, size of magnets, etc.

With Matt's device, I have all those specifics. I also have built a working replication. I believe Matt's original two coil device was 45 watts input and 80 or so watts output. That was without trying to recover any of the power used to run the motor. Using the 3BGS or a potential difference circuit enables you to recover most of that power. But you are correct. We have beat that into submission and its time to move on.

So in the spirit of that, I'll respond to your question with a question. Is there a difference between an energizer and a generator?