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  • Hrothgar, thanks! Do you know why? Well, you helped me out, your objection to my argument made me reconsider it, and what i have found out is that there is indeed some flaw in it (principally), but since the devil is in the details, let's see now what details we have to review:

    1. Fixed spatial orientation of the Earth's axis is unexplainable because there is nothing (no force, no real reason at all) why would spatial orientation of the Earth's axis be Fixed ( Earth's axis is spatially fixed with respect to what? ; What kind of force keeps it fixed like that?)

    2. The universe is Earth centered, not Sun centered! How do we know that? Seasonal positions of the Sun with respect to the Earth vary more than 47 degrees each year (analema), but principal position of all the stars with respect to the Earth doesn't vary at all, that is why the celestial equator is equal to (aligned with) the "equator" of the Earth, not to the Sun's "equator" (ecliptic).

    The observational evidence had become overwhelming. One simple observation is that the number of stars and galaxies increases fairly equally in all directions. That is, if you count all the stars in one direction, and compare it with the count in the opposite direction, the number is always about the same. Similarly, radio sources are isotropic or have the same value when measured in every direction. After HubbleThe mass (matter) of the universe also has a pattern with the Earth seemly at the densest part of the universe. That is, the universe becomes less and less dense as one moves away from the Earth. Quasars, a specific kind of galaxy, form concentric hells around the Earth, or a series of shells all centered on the Earth.

    The most compelling evidence was discovered in 1965 in a study of the microwave background radiation. A 1976 article in Scientific American, acknowledged, . Whatʼs more, the universe itself seems to be rotating around a central axis according to the satellite experiment, COBE, launched in 1989. Such observational evidence can be found in standard scientific textbooks, and while they are open to interpretation, the apparent centrality of the Earth has been widely acknowledged.

    Historically, there has never been any proof that the Sun-centered model is actually true!!!

    3. After exactly 6 months alleged Earth's revolution around the Sun should render exactly 180 degree shift of all the stars with respect to (the observer on) the Earth. But wait..., Earth's alleged orbit (around the Sun) is not a perfect circle, and Earth's orbital velocity is not a constant, and during 6 months of (Arctic) POLAR NIGHT we can observe perfectly steady (precise) annual shifting (on daily basis) of all the stars above the Earth. So how do we get exactly 180 degree shift of all the stars after exactly 6 months in that (heliocentric) manner? We don't. It is just too artificial and imprecise manner to be in any relation with reality.

    Described impossibility is obviously a reason for raging madness like these:

    Modern astronomers have lengthened the sun's distance by nearly a hundred millions of miles, which has necessarily increased the earth's supposed orbit more than 300 000 000 of MILES!!! But this extreme alteration is neither acknowledged nor permitted to detract from the great name of Kepler, lest it might also reflect upon the "science" of astronomy; for in this exact "science" the alteration of MILLIONS of MILES is "a mere detail!"

    Does this make any difference?

    Copernicus wrote: " It is not necessary that hypotheses be true or even probable ; it is sufficient that they lead to results of calculation which agree with calculation. . . . Neither let any one, as far as hypotheses are concerned, expect anything certain from Astronomy, since that science can afford nothing of the kind, lest in case he should adopt for truth things feigned for another purpose, he should leave the science more foolish than when he came.. . . The hypothesis of the terrestrial motion was nothing but an hypothesis, valuable only so far as it explained phenomena not considered with reference to absolute truth or falsehood."Copernicus computed it as being only three millions, while Meyer enlarged it to one hundred and four millions of miles, and there are many estimates between these two extremes. In my young days it was reckoned to be ninety-five, but in my old it has been reduced to about ninety-two millions of miles. Such discrepancies remind me of the confusion which attended those who in olden days attempted to build the Tower of Babel, when their language was confounded, and their labour brought to nought. But no wonder is it that their calculations are all wrong, seeing they proceed from a wrong basis. They assumed the world to be a Planet, with a circumference of 25,000 miles, and took their measurements from its supposed centre, and from supposed spherical angles of measurement on the surface. Again, how could such measurements possibly be correct while, as we are told, the Earth was whirling around the Sun faster than a cannon ball, at the rate of eighteen miles per second, a force more than sufficient to kill every man, woman, and child on its surface in less than a minute? Then, the Earth is supposed to have various other motions, into the discussion of which I need not enter here, and will only notice that of its supposed rotation round its imaginary axis at the rate, at the Equator, of a thousand miles per hour, with an inclination of 23^^ degrees. Let me, however, remind our Astronomers of a pertinent remark made by Captain R. I. Morrison, late Compiler of Zadkiel's Almanac, who, from the position he held, ought to be considered a good authority on such subjects

    " We declare that this motion is all mere ' bosh,' and that the arguments which uphold it are, when examined by an eye that seeks Truth, mere nonsense and childish absurdity."

    Now what confidence can any man place in a science which gives promissory notes of such extravagance as these? They are simply bankrupt bills, not worth the paper on which they are written. And yet, strange to say, many foolish people endorse them as if they were good, the reason being that they are too lazy to think for themselves, and, to their own sad cost, accept the bogus notes as if they had been issued by a Rothschild."

    4.

    Last edited by cikljamas; 09-23-2014, 12:06 PM.
    "There is no love without prayer - there is no prayer without forgiveness because love is prayer - forgiveness is love." Virgin Marry - Immaculate Conception ...The geologists say it's not in the ground, the airforce says it's not in the air, the astronomers say it's not from space, so we are running out of options...

    Comment


    • here you go

      1. I suggest you study gyroscopes they work on that same mysterious non-existant force and you can buy one in a toy store. Also note the Tides follow the sun and moon, this is a stabilizing force keeping the outer earth somewhat independent of the rotating iron core. oh here. Large Brass Gyroscope - DnaTube.com - Scientific Video and Animation Site

      2. Watch Why and How Seasons Change From Space

      3. As I said daylight is on the opposite side of the planet. http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/faculty/eric...sun.motion.jpg

      4. Let me get this straight, the earth can't move because the ride would be bumpy?!?!?!?!?

      When you have your religious leaders to think for you life must be a piece of cake

      Comment


      • The difference

        "Modern astronomers have lengthened the sun's distance by nearly a hundred millions of miles, which has necessarily increased the earth's supposed orbit more than 300 000 000 of MILES!!! But this extreme alteration is neither acknowledged nor permitted to detract from the great name of Kepler, lest it might also reflect upon the "science" of astronomy; for in this exact "science" the alteration of MILLIONS of MILES is "a mere detail!"

        Does this make any difference?"

        Yes this does make a difference Modern astronomers can admit they were wrong and say it to the world. You however can can only whine "If the earth moved it would bump my camera if we went over a pebble!" Learning from our mistakes and saying we are wrong when we are wrong is what we are supposed to do. Unless the bible is telling you to make excuses ie lying. Oh wait, isn't lying a sin?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cikljamas View Post
          1. Fixed spatial orientation of the Earth's axis is unexplainable because there is nothing (no force, no real reason at all) why would spatial orientation of the Earth's axis be Fixed ( Earth's axis is spatially fixed with respect to what? ; What kind of force keeps it fixed like that?)
          Earth's axis is spatially fixed with respect to what?
          The 360 South Pole celestial points visible on the star trails,
          taken at all latitudes near the ice barrier show that flat earth North Pole celestial axis is fixed;
          this is irrefutable proof the flat earth does not rotate.


          What kind of force keeps it fixed like that?
          The 361 star trails (one North and 360 South) show that stars rotate above the flat earth and
          all pictures somehow don't overlap, therefore this must be a miracle.


          Al

          Comment


          • Hrothgar, it is really pathetic to give a lesson to anyone about how not to lie since you are heliocentrist and heliocentrism is a paradigm of utter lying and ultimate arrogance. Just stick with the topic and answer to this: If orbital velocity of the Earth is not a constant how then daily rate of annual rotation of the stars can be constant due to variable Earth's orbital velocity which Earth performs traveling in it's eccentric path around the Sun?
            "There is no love without prayer - there is no prayer without forgiveness because love is prayer - forgiveness is love." Virgin Marry - Immaculate Conception ...The geologists say it's not in the ground, the airforce says it's not in the air, the astronomers say it's not from space, so we are running out of options...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by cikljamas View Post
              since you are heliocentrist








              This thread is hilarious, it makes snake handlers look VERY SANE by comparison.

              Comment




              • for you, son



                Flat Earth Society Lunatics Says Round Planet, Gravity Are Fake

                Comment


                • Phhhft!

                  Originally posted by cikljamas View Post
                  Hrothgar, it is really pathetic to give a lesson to anyone about how not to lie since you are heliocentrist and heliocentrism is a paradigm of utter lying and ultimate arrogance. Just stick with the topic and answer to this: If orbital velocity of the Earth is not a constant how then daily rate of annual rotation of the stars can be constant due to variable Earth's orbital velocity which Earth performs traveling in it's eccentric path around the Sun?
                  Elliptical Orbit Effect

                  Really tho, who can hermaphrodites marry?

                  Comment


                  • cikljamas,

                    Why don't you come to the point and leave all your misinterpreted scientific nonsense aside.
                    The point is that you WANT to believe that the Earth is flat and that the entire universe revolves around it.
                    You WANT to believe that no matter what intelligent people can come up with.
                    You WANT to believe so because your interpretation of the Bible tells you so and you believe the Bible to be the Word of God.
                    So what are the real issues that you should address?
                    - Is your interpretation of the Bible the correct one. I have seen so many interpretations, many many Christian ones, some Jewish and one Islamic one. It seems that the Bible allows for many interpretations so why do you cling on to your flat Earth interpretation so much? You say that if the Earth would be spherical we should ask ourselves if the Bible really is the Word of God. The Bible can still be right, but your interpretation could be wrong. (exactly the same issue that you seem to have with science, logic and common sense)
                    - The Bible is a book written by many people and severely 'edited' by the Vatican. Could this not result in a distorted view on the true message therein?
                    - Who or what is God? The image that they taught me was that of a very old man sitting on a throne in heaven, being omnipotent and omniscient. If that picture turns out to be true, than god is worse than the devil. Because he knows all our suffering and he can change it with a wink of his eye. Yet he chooses not to do so. I can not believe this to be true, but if it is, he sure better let me live for all eternity, for as soon as I get there I will tear his place down. No, I can not believe in a God like that. How is this relevant, you may ask?
                    Well, just look at how fiery you defend your interpretation. You would wage war on all us unbelievers. Do you really think that that is your God given purpose in life?

                    Ernst.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hrothgar View Post
                      Elliptical Orbit Effect

                      Really tho, who can hermaphrodites marry?


                      I think the bible says all genetic deformities are due to the parents living in sin.

                      or some such nonsense.
                      Were you expecting a logical response out of the Dept. of Religion?






                      Everything is "Gods will"
                      , even when 20 people are praying in church and a tornado comes along and drops the roof on their heads and kills them.

                      Gods will

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ernst View Post
                        cikljamas,

                        Why don't you come to the point and leave all your misinterpreted scientific nonsense aside.
                        The point is that you WANT to believe that the Earth is flat and that the entire universe revolves around it.
                        You WANT to believe that no matter what intelligent people can come up with.
                        You WANT to believe so because your interpretation of the Bible tells you so and you believe the Bible to be the Word of God.
                        So what are the real issues that you should address?
                        - Is your interpretation of the Bible the correct one. I have seen so many interpretations, many many Christian ones, some Jewish and one Islamic one. It seems that the Bible allows for many interpretations so why do you cling on to your flat Earth interpretation so much? You say that if the Earth would be spherical we should ask ourselves if the Bible really is the Word of God. The Bible can still be right, but your interpretation could be wrong. (exactly the same issue that you seem to have with science, logic and common sense)
                        - The Bible is a book written by many people and severely 'edited' by the Vatican. Could this not result in a distorted view on the true message therein?
                        - Who or what is God? The image that they taught me was that of a very old man sitting on a throne in heaven, being omnipotent and omniscient. If that picture turns out to be true, than god is worse than the devil. Because he knows all our suffering and he can change it with a wink of his eye. Yet he chooses not to do so. I can not believe this to be true, but if it is, he sure better let me live for all eternity, for as soon as I get there I will tear his place down. No, I can not believe in a God like that. How is this relevant, you may ask?
                        Well, just look at how fiery you defend your interpretation. You would wage war on all us unbelievers. Do you really think that that is your God given purpose in life?

                        Ernst.
                        I thought I said something similar

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hrothgar
                          I thought I said something similar
                          OK,... well let's go and get that beer then!

                          Ernst.

                          Comment


                          • The thing is that there are many people out there who are not Christian or religious, but are still skeptical of the official model and might consider other scenarios as well, might doubt that NASA is being sincere, might believe that the satellites are fake or at least not what we're told they are and so on...So, the origin of these beliefs is not the bible, but human reasoning, and your unwillingness to think is only your problem. I also kind of wonder why Cikljamas mentions the Bible while having a discussion with non-religious audience, but that is only his approach, it doesn't mean that if something is implied in the Bible it is wrong, does it? You're really that prejudiced? Why don't you admit that the reason you believe the Earth is round is because you were told so by the great scientists? Actually, not even the scientists told you so but your kindergarten teachers

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Saros
                              I also kind of wonder why Cikljamas mentions the Bible while having a discussion with non-religious audience, but that is only his approach, it doesn't mean that if something is implied in the Bible it is wrong, does it? You're really that prejudiced?
                              Originally posted by cikljamas
                              However, if FET ever turned up to be false then the Bible should be discarded as authentic Word of God.

                              I have enough courage to say that, and you won't find more than just a few Christians in the whole world who would have so much courage to assert what i just have asserted.

                              Am i fair enough, what do you think?
                              Originally posted by Saros
                              Why don't you admit that the reason you believe the Earth is round is because you were told so by the great scientists? Actually, not even the scientists told you so but your kindergarten teachers
                              Again I could refer you to the Foucault Pendulum. Was he a kindergarten teacher?
                              Saros, you fit in well with the flat liners!

                              I have a dry throat. Where are you, Hrothgar? Time for your religion.



                              Ernst.

                              Comment

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