How do I charge 48V Batteries with Spark Gap Tesla Coil????

[420Organics]

HELLO ALL!

Anyone have any experience charging dead or used batteries with Tesla Coils? I've got a few 100kV Hamilton Drills High Voltage Tesla Coils with a positive and negative brass end (spark gap).

I've got some temporary success on smaller batteries, but I think I need to make a few conductors and run the current through them before charging the battery...ANY SUGGESTIONS?!?!!?!

Thanks ALL!

[BroMikey]

Radiant Charges

HELLO ALL!

Anyone have any experience charging dead or used batteries with Tesla Coils? I've got a few 100kV Hamilton Drills High Voltage Tesla Coils with a positive and negative brass end (spark gap).

I've got some temporary success on smaller batteries, but I think I need to make a few conductors and run the current through them before charging the battery...ANY SUGGESTIONS?!?!!?!

Thanks ALL!

Hello Yes some success only

Recently the leaders in radiantly charging batteries have come forward by new information. Peter L. stated in his recent video with Aaron M. that direct long term or consisted radiant charges can and quite often does change the chemistry to a point where the batteries no longer charge.

Radiant spiking is great in it's place for rejuv/reviving battery plate with crusty build up.

However, the latest pulse chargers offered by the leader in the AREA OF DEVELOPMENT is John Bedini and his staff.


They are a great team and doing an excellent job leading the way. Their new radiant chargers are made with capacitors that store the energy first and then instead of a violent run away spike the new systems use high inrush current spikes as well as voltages spikes.

I can tell you that this is the way to go. I am becoming the answer to my own questions in the last year because this is all I do.

I revived an old man's scooter battery for free today, he has a state of the art electric bike that was given to him and he really has no money to invest.

Three 12ah AGM batteries for a whopping 36vdc and I have seen this baby scream. One battery broke so in the trash. I had an extra to put in.

Now the other two cells were dry and I have used many forms of spike charge pulses so I put these 2 batteries on.

Capacitor discharge is the right way to revive and recharge batteries. You can spike them but in almost every battery I recover now I just use the cap discharging method.

Say I have a badly sulfated set of plates I want to dust off. A 12vdc battery gets knocked around with 40vdc at about 10percent duty at about a 1/4amp input on a 12ah battery.

I have tried many ways till I always came back to the best way, Capacitor Discharging. The INRUSH will shine and charge your plates all day that grows and finer surface material.

Your battery will soon be high density.

Mike

[shylo]

What size?

Hi 420, Sorry to interrupt, Mike what is the best size cap to use, and how many pulses a minute , voltage level, uf rating?
Thanks artv

[Quigon10101]

Indeed. This is very interesting. But respectfully,

The INRUSH will shine and charge your plates all day that grows and finer surface material.

this part. I could never imagine plate surface material growing back, if thats what you really mean.

I fully agree with the rest. I have a ton of dead batteries as a close friend and neighbor of mine is in the battery repair and car electrician business. I have yet to find a sulfated only battery that can be desulfated and brought back to its former glory. Usually, there is always some physical problem that develops as a lead acid battery ages and physical problems can not be solved without taking the battery apart and replacing plates and separators where necessary.

I've built and used the Frontiers Spring desulfator circuit and the monopole ssg (but without a cap for charging), magnesium sulfate, sodium bicarb + thorough washing, even diode and electrolyte tub assisted mains spikes prescribed as a anti-hardening technique by a supposed battery guru. It all comes down to the physical and chemical conditions INSIDE the battery. Few might recover, and to some extent, while most simply will not budge.

[BroMikey]

Here is the answer

Hi 420, Sorry to interrupt, Mike what is the best size cap to use, and how many pulses a minute , voltage level, uf rating?
Thanks artv

Farmhand and seamonkey said this

Hi Bromikey, Here is some words below in "quote" from a guy who due to unfortunate
circumstances cannot post here any more. I also attach the circuit I made up
for conditioning batteries. I don't think I posted it yet.

The question of rise and fall times is good. The actual rise and fall times cause
a period of resistance change through the switch from high to very low, the
faster the rise and fall times the less energy is dissipated by the switch resistance.

Currently I am experimenting with a feedback oscillator driving a resonant air
core transformer, it has one mosfet driven by a mosfet driver which is
triggered by a feedback signal that is processed through a small transistor and
an inverter/buffer.

Rise and fall times are matched at about 50 nanoseconds each with that
driver chip and mosfet, IRF740, at 840 kHz.

One thing to note is that if the coil is switched on for too long then it can be
fully charged and current will flow through it to ground at loss, it's best to
keep the on time to the coil so that the coil is charged and switched off when
the magnetic energy stored in it's field is maximum or close.

Inductor power calculator.
Inductor Current and Maximum Power Calculator

As far as the coils magnetic field energy release, then Mario explained it well,
but I would add that the fall time is the important one for getting a good
discharge, however both are important as the rate of change is relative to the
magnitude of the voltage developed, in some circuits rise and fall times too
fast cause problems better avoided, but for DC-DC converters and cap
dumping the faster the switch works the better.

They way I see it due to impedance matching to charge a battery with
pulses only double the battery voltage is required, there is a optimum
impedance match for maximum energy transfer on each different battery/type.

Conditioning batteries is much the same except it is generally accepted that
desulfation takes time to do it's thing, and if too much power is used the
battery can be damaged or overheated while it's resistance is high. Most
batteries badly sulfated can be better desulfated with less than 10 Watts
applied in 24 volt or so pulses at a higher frequency up to a few kHz. Lower
frequencies work but take longer.

My circuit is designed to do both desulfation and charging based on a solar input that varies in power and voltage.

However it can be used with a 12 volt battery for the supply where it will
then use one mosfet "Q2" as a boost converter to charge C2 cap to whatever
voltage is programmed then "Q1" dumps the increased voltage to the battery,
in a series of 10 to 20 microsecond pulse trains. It pauses the boost
converter while the cap dumps happen.

With solar input it's programmed to pulse the battery so as to keep the solar
input at it's max power voltage of 17 volts if solar input goes less than 17 volts
then the boost kicks in and 24 volt conditioning pulses are supplied to the battery.

If you want to dump a large capacitor with a lot of charge into a battery and
have it discharge fully then the time the discharge takes will vary depending
on different things, still it is not desirable for the switch to turn off slowly if
the current is flowing, if no current is flowing it doesn't matter how long it
takes to turn the switch off.

Quote from Poster SeaMonkey at OU.com



One other note is that dumping too high of a voltage into a battery can
cause it to spark internally and explode. Particularly if the batter is or
becomes damaged.

Cheers

[BroMikey]

Size of battery

Indeed. This is very interesting. But respectfully,



this part. I could never imagine plate surface material growing back, if thats what you really mean.

I fully agree with the rest. I have a ton of dead batteries as a close friend and neighbor of mine is in the battery repair and car electrician business. I have yet to find a sulfated only battery that can be desulfated and brought back to its former glory. Usually, there is always some physical problem that develops as a lead acid battery ages and physical problems can not be solved without taking the battery apart and replacing plates and separators where necessary.

I've built and used the Frontiers Spring desulfator circuit and the monopole ssg (but without a cap for charging), magnesium sulfate, sodium bicarb + thorough washing, even diode and electrolyte tub assisted mains spikes prescribed as a anti-hardening technique by a supposed battery guru. It all comes down to the physical and chemical conditions INSIDE the battery. Few might recover, and to some extent, while most simply will not budge.

What size battery? And then you can start with 60,000uf.

Mike

[BroMikey]

15-60,000uf

Hi 420, Sorry to interrupt, Mike what is the best size cap to use, and how many pulses a minute , voltage level, uf rating?
Thanks artv

What size batteries are you charging?

I have a 15,000uf 50vdc dump also a 60,000uf 100vdc dump also a 90,000uf 250vdc dump for the truck bed size batteries.

Mike

[Quigon10101]

Greetings bro

I use 4x big truck bed size batteries, the ones used to crank those enormous engines in cargo hauling trucks. I use them with a 48 volt solar powered system. I think they are 180 to 200 amps each. There are 29 plates total in each cell and there are six cells per battery. We built them ourselves after purchasing the positive plates (formed) and salvaging the negative ones from discarded batteries. There was room for more plates in each cell but we left that for more volume of electrolyte and hence for better performance. These plates are for the "cold cranking amps" type of vehicle batteries, not deep cycle. They don't give much backup time on their own but that is all since I haven't gotten around to making those pure lead plates that Bedini and Rick show in a 2008 battery cell formation video. Now its their second year in service but they are losing capacity and I suspect its due to plate material shedding or a bit of poisoning because of carelessness and use of tap water.

[BroMikey]

I have some of those

Greetings bro

I use 4x big truck bed size batteries, the ones used to crank those enormous engines in cargo hauling trucks. I use them with a 48 volt solar powered system. I think they are 180 to 200 amps each. There are 29 plates total in each cell and there are six cells per battery. We built them ourselves after purchasing the positive plates (formed) and salvaging the negative ones from discarded batteries. There was room for more plates in each cell but we left that for more volume of electrolyte and hence for better performance. These plates are for the "cold cranking amps" type of vehicle batteries, not deep cycle. They don't give much backup time on their own but that is all since I haven't gotten around to making those pure lead plates that Bedini and Rick show in a 2008 battery cell formation video. Now its their second year in service but they are losing capacity and I suspect its due to plate material shedding or a bit of poisoning because of carelessness and use of tap water.

A big Howdy Howdy Quigon

Those are nice batteries. I did a few plates like that for 100ah 6v cells and had to be sure the separators were done right. I use ALUM to refill the container.

With batteries like that you get fooled easy but after awhile to realize they are only good for 200amp start-ups. As far as pulse charging this type I know it make them last longer so based on what I have done here I would say use 60-100,000uf to produce large amp surges around 10-20 amp pulses.

But that is for slow sawtooth wave pulses.Depending on the circuit you might get even higher amp throws.

This means for a 12v battery you need 30vdc in a capacitor that should be around a 80-100vdc rated. That way it charges up way faster.

My large cap bank is a 250vdc cap @ 90,000uf so this means I can charge a 36vdc battery using 90vdc pulses without damaging caps and dealing with all kinds of resistance that make heat.

So chose a cap voltage that is three times of what voltage you plan to pulse at.

My large dump has enough cap volume to fill two-three basketballs.

Mike

[Quigon10101]

BroMikey I humbly salute your helpfulness which you have made a part of your good nature. I am but a unworthy noob.

I think that the magnetic beasty on your website is a kind of machine capable of delivering those 10-20 amp pulses. My basic SSG monopole will need additional coils and transistors sets for that so I'll be working on that.

With apologies for hijacking this thread away from spark gap tesla coils, I have only two more questions if they may be please answered?

Is there a picture that shows the waveform(s) of the voltage and amps being pulsed to charge the cells? Or a number in hertz would be similarly helpful.

Second question is that is it really possible to desulfate a cell or even grow back the material, as you mentioned in your post? The frontier springs desulfator I used was using 1 to 2 amps pulses and I got careless with it which resulted in a fried* transistor. Nevertheless, it seems that 1 - 2 amp pulses are useless unless one intends to put a battery on desulfation for a few weeks. Ain't nobody got the time fo that!

Respectfully,
Quigon.

[BroMikey]

Spikin the plates

BroMikey I humbly salute your helpfulness which you have made a part of your good nature. I am but a unworthy noob.

I think that the magnetic beasty on your website is a kind of machine capable of delivering those 10-20 amp pulses. My basic SSG monopole will need additional coils and transistors sets for that so I'll be working on that.

With apologies for hijacking this thread away from spark gap tesla coils, I have only two more questions if they may be please answered?

Is there a picture that shows the waveform(s) of the voltage and amps being pulsed to charge the cells? Or a number in hertz would be similarly helpful.

Second question is that is it really possible to desulfate a cell or even grow back the material, as you mentioned in your post? The frontier springs desulfator I used was using 1 to 2 amps pulses and I got careless with it which resulted in a fried* transistor. Nevertheless, it seems that 1 - 2 amp pulses are useless unless one intends to put a battery on desulfation for a few weeks. Ain't nobody got the time fo that!

Respectfully,
Quigon.

Hello Q

I have been thinking about your questions. Those tiny spring looking coils with a 2n2222 transistor is to small.

On the other side of life i have a 7 pound 14awg coil hooked to 4 16amp transistors. when this little darlin let's loose the plates get dusted off in a few minutes to a few hours depending on the size..

The wave form can be anything and will work but it is better to have a square wave. I have a sawtooth wave that works.

Your SSG will clean plates but later a dump will help even if it doesn't have the best of the best triggering the starting and stopping of current is what grows the material on the plate.

As far as growing back material on a broken plate? That is not at all what I was referring to here. What I am pointing out is what JOHN B. showed in video. The lead plates have finer crystalline structures that form when pulsing is used. granted these lattice patterns found normally on all batteries plates.

With pulsing the finer formations give an increased surface area and therefore offer a higher density of energy.

But the way you charge a 48v battery with a coil discharge is by storing the accumulated energy in capacitors and then pulse this to the plates.

Mike