Tesla's Wireless Power Transmission

[dR-Green]

About 3 days ago I watched this

Technical proof: scalar waves exist - YouTube

Apparently the "experts" in the field still don't get it. Despite what Tesla says, and the effects that the apparatus exhibits on the bench, people like Konstantin Meyl still don't see what's going on. He is still under the illusion that the energy is being transmitted through the air, not to mention he doesn't seem to be aware of the influence of his body capacitance when he attempts to "shield the antenna". He seems an intelligent fellow and apparently he has read what Tesla said so I fail to see how he can accidentally continue to perpetuate the fallacy. What kind of science is it if there is no observation of the most basic of effects. No amount of "shielding" as he calls it between the coils will make any difference if he has a wire connecting them, since it's a basic single wire transmission system and the energy is going through the wire, it has nothing to do with the "antennas". That's why he has problems making it work at low power while using the earth instead of the wire (not to mention he doesn't seem too concerned with tuning anything), he has completely overlooked the most fundamental principle of the whole thing, and he discards it by saying that Tesla was using thousands of volts whereas he is not, so there will be no further investigation into the truth. But in fact the amplifier Meyl introduces in his video is more powerful than mine. So if Tesla understood the principle of his own system better than the modern "experts", let there be light!

Tesla Wireless Power Transmission Colorado Springs Style - YouTube

This mode of conveying electrical energy to a distance is not 'wireless' in the popular sense, but a transmission through a conductor, and one which is incomparably more perfect than any artificial one. All impediments of conduction arise from confinement of the electric and magnetic fluxes to narrow channels. The globe is free of such cramping and hinderment. It is an ideal conductor because of its immensity, isolation in space, and geometrical form. Its singleness is only an apparent limitation, for by impressing upon it numerous non-interfering vibrations, the flow of energy may be directed through any number of paths which, though bodily connected, are yet perfectly distinct and separate like ever so many cables. Any apparatus, then, which can be operated through one or more wires, at distances obviously limited, can likewise be worked without artificial conductors, and with the same facility and precision, at distances without limit other than that imposed by the physical dimensions of the globe.

[indio007]

Tesla was "pumping" electricity into the earth.

The second diagram will now be self-explanatory. Corresponding to the terminal capacity of the electric system an elastic reservoir is employed which dispenses with the necessity of a return pipe. As the piston oscillates the bag expands and contracts, and the fluid is made to surge thru the restricted passage with great speed, this resulting in the generation of heat as in the incandescent lamp. Theoretically considered, the efficiency of conversion of energy should be the same in both cases.

Evidently, as the periodic impulses pass thru the wire, differences of potential will be created along the same as well as at right angles to it in the surrounding medium and either of these may be usefully applied. Thus at a, a circuit comprising an inductance and capacity is resonantly excited in the transverse, and at b, in the longitudinal sense. At c, energy is collected in a circuit parallel to the conductor but not in contact with it, and again at d, in a circuit which is partly sunk into the conductor and may be, or not, electrically connected to the same. It is important to keep these typical dispositions in mind, for however the distant actions of the oscillator might be modified thru the immense extent of the globe the principles involved are the same.

Consider now the effect of such a conductor of vast dimensions on a circuit exciting it. The upper diagram of Fig. 6 illustrates a familiar oscillating system comprising a straight rod of self-inductance 2L with small terminal capacities cc and a node in the center. In the lower diagram of the figure a large capacity C is attached to the rod at one end with the result of shifting the node to the right, thru a distance corresponding to self-inductance X. As both parts of the system on either side of the node vibrate at the same rate, we have evidently, (L+X)c = (L-X)C from which X = L(C-c/C+c). When the capacity C becomes commensurate to that of the earth, X approximates L, in other words, the node is close to the ground connection.

Now compare the magnifying transmitter and the words of the patent. How does it match this description?

By Way of illustration if the rate at which
the current traverses the circuit, including
' the coil, be one hundred and eighty-five thousand miles per second then a frequency of nine hundred and twenty five per second
would maintain nine hundred and twenty-five
stationary waves in a circuit one hundred and
eighty-five thousand miles long and each wave
would be two hundred miles in length.

Then there is Patent 787412
This patent ties it all together.

I would have to cite the whole thing to give it justice.

[dR-Green]

Thanks for posting additional info indio007.

Here's some more things that people such as Meyl can't do and never will because their understanding is not correct and they have no interest in correcting it.

Tesla Magnifying Transmitter - Colorado Springs Scale Model 1860 kc - Single Wire & Wireless Light - YouTube

Tesla Magnifying Transmitter And Receiver - Light, Intelligence And Motive Power - YouTube

[indio007]

Nice! This is the first replica I've seen that has an upright metal cylinder. it's marked as B' in the patent. However I can't tell if the coil (marked as B ) is included in this replica.



I've never seen an exact replica. There is always a part missing.

In regard to one wire.

What I wish to show you is that this motor rotates with one single connection between it and the generator; that is to say, one terminal of the motor is connected to one terminal of the generator—in this case the secondary of a high-tension induction coil—the other terminals of motor and generator being insulated in space. To produce rotation it is generally (but not absolutely) necessary to connect the free end of the motor coil to an insulated body of some size. The experimenter's body is more than sufficient. If he touches the free terminal with an object held in the hand, a current passes through the coil and the copper disc is set in rotation. If an exhausted tube is put in series with the coil, the tube lights brilliantly, showing the passage of a strong current. Instead of the experimenter's body, a small metal sheet suspended on a cord may be used with the same result. In this case the plate acts as a condenser in series with the coil. It counteracts the self-induction of the latter and allows a strong current to pass. In such a combination, the greater the self-induction of the coil the smaller need be the plate, and this means that a lower frequency, or eventually a lower potential, is required to operate the motor. A single coil wound upon a core has a high self-induction; for this reason principally, this type of motor was chosen to perform the experiment. Were a secondary closed coil wound upon the core, it would tend to diminish the self-induction, and then it would be necessary to employ a much higher frequency and potential. Neither would be advisable, for a higher potential would endanger the insulation of the small primary coil, and a higher frequency would result in a materially diminished torque.

It should be remarked that when such a motor with a closed secondary is used, it is not at all easy to obtain rotation with excessive frequencies, as the secondary cuts off almost completely the lines of the primary—and this, of course, the more, the higher the frequency—and allows the passage of but a minute current. In such a case, unless the secondary is closed through a condenser, it is almost essential, in order to produce rotation, to make the primary and secondary coils overlap each other more or less.

But there is an additional feature of interest about this motor, namely, it is not necessary to have even a single connection between the motor and generator, except, perhaps, through the ground; for not only is an insulated plate capable of giving off energy into space, but it likewise capable of deriving it from an alternating electrostatic field, though in the latter case the available energy is much smaller. In this instance one of the motor terminals is connected to the insulated plate or body located within the alternating electrostatic field, and the other terminal preferably to the ground.

I'm racking my brain trying to understand what the electrical properties of a human body and a sheet of suspend metal plate have in common that would cause the one wire effect.

[dR-Green]

Nice! This is the first replica I've seen that has an upright metal cylinder. it's marked as B' in the patent. However I can't tell if the coil (marked as B ) is included in this replica.

I've never seen an exact replica. There is always a part missing.

In regard to one wire.

I'm racking my brain trying to understand what the electrical properties of a human body and a sheet of suspend metal plate have in common that would cause the one wire effect.

The coil is a Colorado Springs scale model and the extra coil is present in a slightly different geometry, but I suppose the terminal is more like the patent. At Colorado Springs there was a relatively small sphere at a great height, but since I'm using copper pipe that's limited in supply without going to the shop to buy more I opted for a bigger object at the top so it would require less pipe length. The length with the bowl on top was adjusted so the scaled extra coil frequency would match in relation to the original extra coil frequency, as the pipe itself makes up some of the terminal capacitance.

I think your answer on the one wire is here in the text you quoted:

In this case the plate acts as a condenser in series with the coil.

When you hold it your body also acts like a condenser, a certain amount of water in an insulated container would also do the trick.

[Ernst]

Party time

Exactly my point in this video:

This is the day that people will remember as "the day that dR-Green and Ernst agreed on something"!



Ernst.

[Joit]

Exactly my point in this video:

This is the day that people will remember as "the day that dR-Green and Ernst agreed on something"!



Ernst.

It seems you are thuis guy what chases Meyl now since years through anything what he post with you wannatry proofs what dont show anything.

He clearly states also. If someone think he want to calculate it different, then he should feel free to do so.
Also YOU should keep in mind, that the math follows the practical examples, and not otherwise.
When you want to proove him wrong then do it by practical examples not with some woodoo math and claim it its a proof for anything. How wrong math all time is can you see at the history of formulas and how often they did need been corrected at certain cases.
Dont start your **** over here too pls. Ty

[Ernst]

Hi Joit,

Are you new here on this forum?
Not only have I been through Meyls theoretical work, I have also replicated his practical work. With coils operating on a few milliwatt up to a few hundred watts.
I have also had a short email conversation with Meyl himself.
He acknowledged a small error, but when I mentioned an error of much more consequence he just stopped answering.

I am 100% confident that Meyls claims are not true.

So far for me. Now, if you would take a few minutes to see what dR-Green has been doing the last few years, you will surely come to understand that your reaction here is slightly misplaced.

Ernst.

[Ben2503]

Hi Joit,


He acknowledged a small error, but when I mentioned an error of much more consequence he just stopped answering.

I am 100% confident that Meyls claims are not true.


Ernst.

could you tell us little bit more, please?
Thanks,
Ben

[Joit]

Hi Joit,

Are you new here on this forum?
Not only have I been through Meyls theoretical work, I have also replicated his practical work. With coils operating on a few milliwatt up to a few hundred watts.
I have also had a short email conversation with Meyl himself.
He acknowledged a small error, but when I mentioned an error of much more consequence he just stopped answering.

I am 100% confident that Meyls claims are not true.

So far for me. Now, if you would take a few minutes to see what dR-Green has been doing the last few years, you will surely come to understand that your reaction here is slightly misplaced.

Ernst.

Ofc am i new to this Forum you see it at my Postings..., i only did seldom bother with your claims and other BS what you post, what is right or wrong at Meyl's work.
I have read some of the Conversations what Meyl had about his Work. And all that bad attempts to debunk him did not convince me at all.
Even i am not convinced from Meyl too (O_O big eyes now?) i am even more less convinced about the Practice, what you Guys try to do with him.

Keep in Mind. MATH follows the Experiment, not otherwise.

[Ernst]

i only did seldom bother with your claims and other BS what you post, what is right or wrong at Meyl's work.
I have read the some Coneversations what Meyl had about his Work. And all that bad attempts to debunk him did not convince me at all.
Even i am not convinced from Meyl too (O_O big eyes now?) i am even more less convinced about the Practice, what you Guys try to do with him.

Keep in Mind. MATH follows the Experiment, not otherwise.

Well then, thanks for your enlightening comment! I will keep that in mind.

could you tell us little bit more, please?
Thanks,
Ben

What exactly would you like to know? The small error was that he used the wrong units at one point, but that did not do much to his overall story.
The bigger error is what dR-Green here mentions.
Does that answer your question?

Ernst.

[Ben2503]

What exactly would you like to know? The small error was that he used the wrong units at one point, but that did not do much to his overall story.
The bigger error is what dR-Green here mentions.
Does that answer your question?

Ernst.

Hi Ernst.
I am not sure what dR-Green's (or your) point is. I recall reading somewhere that Tesla stated that 90% of the power is transmitted through 'ground waves' and 10% through the Air.

I don't understand what the big error is.

Best regards,
Ben

[Ernst]

Meyl says he can transfer energy using scalar waves (skalar Wellen) and is selling a set for experimenters to research these waves.
The name scalar waves is a bit dubious as a scalar is usually implying a lack of motion while a wave implies motion. But I am using this term because Meyl does.
This type of wave DOES actually exist and CAN transfer electrical energy, but not in the way Meyl thinks it does.
When you look at sound waves in air, they do exist, there is no denying, but you can not produce them by moving your hand quickly to the front and back (or sideways). A certain suddenness is required, like when you put a needle in a balloon.
The same goes for ether waves, from what I have seen so far, I estimate you will need a dV/dt (change in voltage) of at least 1TV/s (= 1,000,000 MV/s = 1,000,000,000 KV/s,... etc).
That does not mean that you will need 1,000,000,000,000 Volt. You can also do it with a 1 KV change in 1 ns, or 10 KV in 10 ns,... etc.
The kit that Meyl sells can not produce such suddenness, if I remember correctly it even produces harmonious oscillations.
Meyl then says that these waves are transmitted through the air from the sender to the receiver (of his kit or in his demo's). This does not happen. The sender and receiver are connected through an (un-grounded) 'earth' wire. The fact that this is not a true ground but just a wire connecting sender and receiver means that the signal will travel through this wire. He is demonstrating a single wire transmission system which has nothing to do with scalar waves.

I do not recall having read the text that you quote. When Tesla speaks of wireless transmission of electricity he is very clearly stating that he uses a conducting medium. Whether that medium is air (conducting HF signals) or the Earth, that makes no difference, he says he uses conduction.

Tesla knew of the waves that Meyl claims to produce, but he never used those for transmission of power, nor did he plan to. (I have found no such evidence)
When Tesla spoke of radiant energy, he was talking of charged particles, a subject that he also investigated quite thoroughly.

Clearer now?

Ernst.

[Ben2503]

When you look at sound waves in air, they do exist, there is no denying, but you can not produce them by moving your hand quickly to the front and back (or sideways). A certain suddenness is required, like when you put a needle in a balloon.

Ernst.

Hi Ernst
Now I am even more confused. If I hook-up my audio generator to a speaker, I can produce any tone I want. Same applies for organs, violins, rubbing the rim of a glass etc.. I don't need a certain suddenness to produce the sound waves, you do need to move your hands fast enough (speed of sound?) in order to build up the pressure, Similar to the movement of a loudspeaker.

Best regards,
Ben

[Ben2503]

no radiation

I do not recall having read the text that you quote. When Tesla speaks of wireless transmission of electricity he is very clearly stating that he uses a conducting medium. Whether that medium is air (conducting HF signals) or the Earth, that makes no difference, he says he uses conduction.

Tesla knew of the waves that Meyl claims to produce, but he never used those for transmission of power, nor did he plan to. (I have found no such evidence)
When Tesla spoke of radiant energy, he was talking of charged particles, a subject that he also investigated quite thoroughly.

Ernst.

check Nikola Tesla On His Work With Alternating Currents -- Chapter IV

Counsel

Now, if you were giving that a name, what principle would you say was involved by which the radiation loss, where there is no receiver, becomes a gain or a conservation where there is a receiver?

Tesla

There is no radiation in this case. You see, the apparatus which I devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an antenna circuit. These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic waves. You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy. By proper design and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current that goes through the earth. That is what I am doing. Or, you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and only 5 percent in the energy of the current. Then you are wondering why you do not get good results. I know why I do not get good results in that way. The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method. I am not producing radiation in my system; I am suppressing electromagnetic waves. But, on the other hand, my apparatus can be used effectively with electromagnetic waves. The apparatus has nothing to do with this new method except that it is the only means to practice it. So that in my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that energy is radiated. It is not radiated; it is conserved.