Operating a transformer on DC

[mbrownn]

@Artoj I have not overlooked your suggestion, it is the magnetic directivity that may be a possible solution. I think this also ties in with Hrothgars suggestion.

Keep your ideas coming.

[barbosi]

Here you have 2 ideas, choose one.

Keep your ideas coming.

There is a saying: "Free cheese is only in the mouse traps"

Here you had a few good people trying to help and you offer in exchange a broad description of your work only in words?
Bessler (Orffyreus) did the same and nobody could use its description in any meeningfull way.

I would like to ask you something before offering my idea (choose one): do you want to patent your aparatus?

Idea #1: If no, you have to be more generous in sharing.

Idea #2: If yes, say thank you for what you got thus far and follow his direction.

[mbrownn]

There is a saying: "Free cheese is only in the mouse traps"

Here you had a few good people trying to help and you offer in exchange a broad description of your work only in words?
Bessler (Orffyreus) did the same and nobody could use its description in any meeningfull way.

I would like to ask you something before offering my idea (choose one): do you want to patent your aparatus?

Idea #1: If no, you have to be more generous in sharing.

Idea #2: If yes, say thank you for what you got thus far and follow his direction.

I have no interest in patenting.

The reason I have not included detailed information here is because I don't want to influence the answers I will get. Its like if you mention JFK or 911 you will get a debate on conspiracy instead of the facts of what happened.

I have now spent many years working on this device and have made significant progress, all of which has been shared (if you look you will find it). This is an old device that looks very simple but in fact it is extremely complicated, maybe thats why there have been no real attempts to replicate it. Those that discuss it seem to have a cult following plus a great number of people trying to discredit it. Later in the thread I'm sure someone will pick up on what this is and all will be revealed.

There is so much secrecy involved in this field and I wont add to it.

Now back to the problem. At the moment we have reached a stage where we have two outputs occurring in one coil, one is DC the other is AC. I have tried diodes and rectifiers but the problem is in the coil and cannot be solved by placing diodes outside of it. As the DC and AC are being produced in the coil half of the AC opposes the DC and half goes with it. This results in cancellation of the power in the AC and we get sort of an h wave DC signal.

If we can offset this AC signal in the direction of the DC we have solved the problem and that is why I created this thread.

It may be that we have to add a second coil around the first one with a diode to maintain DC and one with a bridge for the AC but somehow I don't think that will work.

I did read, some years ago, how a sine wave AC signal could be converted to a sine wave DC signal within a transformer by offsetting it but I cant remember how it was done. I believe there was no gain in power and only a small loss.

This is why I want people to think about transformers.

[stargate22]

Hmmmm?

Could this be a "Clue"?

[barbosi]

Thanks for clearing the waters. It seems I'm the latest dinosaur to comprehend that there are many people thinking that you don't need to buy nor take care of a cow as long as you get milk for free. I'm sure, in time, others will see that there are individuals that would take advantage of people sharing info for free while they have spent years (like you say) to reach some conclusions. The sad reality is that they never return any feedback to benefit the contributors too.

What would be that device you've been working so hard? Something that has an historic name attached to it?

Regards and I hope I didn't offended you in any way, but some conspiracies turn out to be right.

[erfinder]

Now back to the problem. At the moment we have reached a stage where we have two outputs occurring in one coil, one is DC the other is AC. I have tried diodes and rectifiers but the problem is in the coil and cannot be solved by placing diodes outside of it. As the DC and AC are being produced in the coil half of the AC opposes the DC and half goes with it. This results in cancellation of the power in the AC and we get sort of an h wave DC signal.

If we can offset this AC signal in the direction of the DC we have solved the problem and that is why I created this thread.

It may be that we have to add a second coil around the first one with a diode to maintain DC and one with a bridge for the AC but somehow I don't think that will work.

I did read, some years ago, how a sine wave AC signal could be converted to a sine wave DC signal within a transformer by offsetting it but I cant remember how it was done. I believe there was no gain in power and only a small loss.

This is why I want people to think about transformers.

Hello,

I have encountered this problem myself, and after some serious thought came to the conclusion that the cancellation problem was the inevitable result of the two fields occupying the same space at the same time, both magnetic and dielectric, there is no way out of this, at least I didn't find a way out using what you are suggesting. The solution came when it was understood that if one of the two components, magnetic or dielectric could be "divided" as unto itself, the cancellation could be allowed to manifest, but the induced voltage and currents would still be available for use.

I know it doesn't make sense, however, not making sense has no bearing on my machine functioning. I chose to divide the magnetic, it just makes more sense when you think about it. The method I cannot give you because you don't have the same machine. What I can share is that my solution was in using two transformers, not one, in a single transformer the inducing and the induced are in the same space at the same time, they will add or cancel, on the other hand in two transformers when you associate said transformers with one another properly, here you must follow the CEMF its all over the place, you have to get the phase relationships between the two transformers right and then you got what I got, in your system.

You are a clever guy, you don't need anymore speculation from me. Just know I got two transformer working together so that I can use the AC, You don't have to convert it to DC. If you really just gotta have DC, take what I suggest and apply it to Tesla's method. You will see, as you probably already have, even he suggests dual reservoirs.

I hope this helps....if not, there is plenty of room in the bin. Good luck, have fun.


Regards

[mbrownn]

Hahaha Its now become a guessing game

I suppose I have been called out and wont get away with it any longer

Its known as the Lockridge device.

You can find some of my work here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lindemann.html here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...flar-coil.html here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ce-motors.html and here Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - View topic - The lockridge device

There was another thread on another forum with more info on it but that has been deleted for some reason

I would suggest not reading from the beginning as my ideas have evolved over time but starting around 2 years ago would be more relevant.

My work is different to Peter L's although I think his videos are well worth watching.

The work of both Squires and Babcock are both relevant although their devices are quite different from mine. The geometry is taken directly from John B's video although I think it works in a different way to how he explained in his video. Some of how it works is described in the dynamotor patent.

Hiwater has run some tests for me, I have also discussed ideas with Erfinder and a little with Farmhand and a couple of others. The info is all out there although nobody has the full picture. Once I have it all worked out I will put the pieces together for people if they need it.

Technically it cant be patented as everything is out in the open, but as you know, you can patent anything.

If you wish to discuss the device as a whole then I suggest we start a new thread because I want to keep this one specifically for the problem described above. As the work is not Peter or Johns I suggest we don't use the term Lockridge in the title so people don't get confused with their work on the subject. If you do wish to discuss it let me know and ill start a new thread.

[erfinder]

Hahaha Its now become a guessing game

I suppose I have been called out and wont get away with it any longer

Its known as the Lockridge device.

You can find some of my work here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lindemann.html here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...flar-coil.html here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ce-motors.html and here Imhotep's Lab Interactive FAQ - View topic - The lockridge device

There was another thread on another forum with more info on it but that has been deleted for some reason

I would suggest not reading from the beginning as my ideas have evolved over time but starting around 2 years ago would be more relevant.

My work is different to Peter L's although I think his videos are well worth watching.

The work of both Squires and Babcock are both relevant although their devices are quite different from mine. The geometry is taken directly from John B's video although I think it works in a different way to how he explained in his video. Some of how it works is described in the dynamotor patent.

Hiwater has run some tests for me, I have also discussed ideas with Erfinder and a little with Farmhand and a couple of others. The info is all out there although nobody has the full picture. Once I have it all worked out I will put the pieces together for people if they need it.

Technically it cant be patented as everything is out in the open, but as you know, you can patent anything.

If you wish to discuss the device as a whole then I suggest we start a new thread because I want to keep this one specifically for the problem described above. As the work is not Peter or Johns I suggest we don't use the term Lockridge in the title so people don't get confused with their work on the subject. If you do wish to discuss it let me know and ill start a new thread.

Uh.....should I remove my post? I thought what I stated fit. I have no idea how much your ideas have changed over the years. I offered what I can offer. I cannot post a schematic of my setup, it makes absolutely no sense, and has noting to do with what you are doing. The part that applies is simply the use of two transformers instead of one, for the expressed purpose of being able to utilize that which is other wise cancelled, namely the AC. Now that I know its a motor, now that I know its the lockridge, I know it fits! Humor me and play around with the transformers... if you can get them connected right, you should see what I see, and since your machine isn't a toy like mine, you should see something serious.

I told you that I am of the opinion that the Alexanderson patent is the device that you are working on. I built a rig that allows me to separate and amplify the transformer, and generator relationship using magamp principles... these effects are external to the motor for the purpose of learning how to properly blend them inside the stator later. Anyway...that's all I have to say about this.

Let me know if I should take the posts down.


Regads

[mbrownn]

Uh.....should I remove my post? I thought what I stated fit. I have no idea how much your ideas have changed over the years. I offered what I can offer. I cannot post a schematic of my setup, it makes absolutely no sense, and has noting to do with what you are doing. The part that applies is simply the use of two transformers instead of one, for the expressed purpose of being able to utilize that which is other wise cancelled, namely the AC. Now that I know its a motor, now that I know its the lockridge, I know it fits! Humor me and play around with the transformers... if you can get them connected right, you should see what I see, and since your machine isn't a toy like mine, you should see something serious.

I told you that I am of the opinion that the Alexanderson patent is the device that you are working on. I built a rig that allows me to separate and amplify the transformer, and generator relationship using magamp principles... these effects are external to the motor for the purpose of learning how to properly blend them inside the stator later. Anyway...that's all I have to say about this.

Let me know if I should take the posts down.


Regads

Good to see you Mate. No don't remove anything, it seems as if we were both posting at the same time.

In the simplified model I am comparing it to one transformer but as you know the case is split into two halves, maybe this can be used as the two transformers you speak of. Maybe we should have a chat about it so I can get my head round the concept. I still have the same skype

I am starting to get my head around the mag-amp but the brain is a little slow these days.

[erfinder]

Good to see you Mate. No don't remove anything, it seems as if we were both posting at the same time.

In the simplified model I am comparing it to one transformer but as you know the case is split into two halves, maybe this can be used as the two transformers you speak of. Maybe we should have a chat about it so I can get my head round the concept. I still have the same skype

I am starting to get my head around the mag-amp but the brain is a little slow these days.

The device should produce AC on its own, this AC will limit your current if you have enough inductance in the system, I didn't have enough, the transformer fixed that problem too..... If you use the transformers, you can take the induced AC from switching and run it against the AC which is induced from proper generator action and neutralize the effect of current limiting, while at the same time being able to use the CEMF which is under normal circumstances limiting your current!

We should talk.

[mbrownn]

Its taking me a while to get my head around what is in your post. In my case it is AC caused by the switching that I want to collect as there is real current in it, the generator produces DC. The current should lag behind the voltage, but how much I don't know and how that translates via transformer action into the output coil again is an unknown.

I need some more test equipment

There is little or no BEMF in the powered field coil because of the geometry but it is in the armature, if you remember it is the generator that causes the torque and thats why it accelerates under load. I know it must be a year or more since we last talked about this, Ive forgot a lot of what we said too

My first inductor is one of the windings of the trifler coil wound around the case, this is pulsed at approximately 50% duty cycle with the frequency set my the motor speed. As the voltage is cut off it dumps the inductive kickback into the powered field coil. This magnetic field is forced around a 90 degree bend in the armature to return through the generator coil. Its the concentration of the flux in the generator coil shoe that causes torque and generation at the same time. What I have described is the upper left half of this drawing.

The black boxes are the brushes to the armature
The red is the powered coils
The green is the generator coil
Trifler coil not shown

see drawing http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...-coilsetup.jpg

Hope this helps

[indio007]

Are you looking for a DC to DC boost converter/transformer?

This guy has a lot of published material and patents on it.

sagneri - Google Scholar

His PHD thesis has a good description of the basic problems associated with engineering high frequency DC to DC transformers.
Particularly
Chapter 1.1 Losses in Hard Switched Converters

[barbosi]

In my case it is AC caused by the switching that I want to collect as there is real current in it, the generator produces DC. The current should lag behind the voltage,...

I emphasized in your comment the part where clearly you are hesitant, and in my opinion for a good reason. While you previously have stated why you do consider that particular form of signal being AC, you get caught in the text book conditioning and assume the phase shift.
I would remind you that the phase shift you are talking about, more precisely a 90 degrees lag, applies to a sine wave. What does the text book tells about spikes? How can a current change which generates a voltage response, will allow any lag? How can a cause be later than the effect?

I need some more test equipment

When you understand your stuff, test equipment built according to other situations and theories is simply futile.

But I may be wrong...

[mbrownn]

I emphasized in your comment the part where clearly you are hesitant, and in my opinion for a good reason. While you previously have stated why you do consider that particular form of signal being AC, you get caught in the text book conditioning and assume the phase shift.
I would remind you that the phase shift you are talking about, more precisely a 90 degrees lag, applies to a sine wave. What does the text book tells about spikes? How can a current change which generates a voltage response, will allow any lag? How can a cause be later than the effect?



When you understand your stuff, test equipment built according to other situations and theories is simply futile.

But I may be wrong...

I am not an electronics guy, but I am a hydraulics engineer, so I know a thing or two about pressure and flow. I think of voltage as pressure and current as flow, this usually works well for electrical circuits although its far from perfect.

Most people think about AC as a sine wave but it can be any wave or form that changes polarity and/or direction. Yes, to be pedantic we can say it only refers to current and not voltage, but remember I am referring to a signal seen on a scope and not anything else.

The reason for my hesitance is that we can change the polarity of a signal in a coil, but it takes time for the current to respond, hence a lag. It may be the case that the voltage changes polarity but the current did not reverse flow. The spikes I am referring to are measured voltage, they have magnitude and duration, sufficient duration to influence current flow, but how much I don't know. The work I have done testing this device was over a year ago using a scope measuring the voltage signal, I did not set the scope up to measure the current flow but I wish I had.

I lost my lab, test equipment and device over a year ago too so until I am able to replace them I have to work with theory. Understanding what is happening and how to manipulate what is happening is very important if you want to develop a device. Testing is the only way to be sure that theory is the same as what is really happening.

Working from txt book theories is fine if you are not stepping outside of the “normal” parameters but what I am doing isn't considered to be normal. In the absence of testing I am asking for knowledge and experience that others have to assist me, Is that wrong of me to do that?

Sorry for being so direct, but so far in your posts, you seem to have questioned my motives, insinuated that I am some sort of freeloader and had a dig at my comprehension of the subject. Maybe I have misunderstood and could be misinterpreting your posts, If so I again apologize but even so I have answered in some detail and with respect. May I ask where you are coming from? I would prefer that you ask about the device I am working on.

It does seem that the interactions found in a mag-amp are indeed relevant to my device, can you offer any light on the subject? Is there another way of solving this problem that you are aware of? I do appreciate any input even if it is negative because that makes me work harder. Keep asking questions about how this thing works as this is how I learn.

It is interesting that sticking to the physical aspects of a device shown in a video has resulted in me coming up with what I have. Most have deviated and haven't come any closer to solving the mystery than me. I truly believe that that I am on the right path even though I do follow some false trails from time to time. I believe I have solved the reason for the splits in the case but as yet I cant be sure of the exact wiring until I have solved all the aspects of the trifler coil. I also believe this will confirm the function of the capacitor.

[barbosi]

I am not an hydraulics guy, but your approach with pressure and flow matches my understanding too.
As the pressure can alternate, so the flow will follow. Pressure can raise linearly, or sine like is we wish so, or any nonlinear form, or abruptly. For the later, the relationship between pressure and flow give the effect compared with a hammering action. I know you know all that and I mention it only if it could help other people.

My intention in my previous post was only related to the term “lag” which is an illusion that voltage and current are the same (due to the similarity of the wave form) but only delayed. We all know that in fact there is a derivative relationship and it depends on the load.
Try to drive abruptly a different current into an inductor and in the attempt to maintain the equilibrium, it will react with the CEMF known as spikes. Try to drive abruptly a different flow of a fluid into a pipe, the spikes in pressure will be noticed. Instantly, no delay, no lag. In both examples.

As for the test equipment, I may have wrongfully assuming that you lack an instrument to measure power factor so you could determine the phase (the lag). To me, this kind of instrument is useless in the study of pulse driven circuits. It is more an economic tool rather than research one. It is designed to know how much one would be charged for the power consumed. In hydraulics I'm not sure there are such instruments.

Sorry for being so direct, but so far in your posts, you seem to have questioned my motives, insinuated that I am some sort of freeloader and had a dig at my comprehension of the subject.

As I stated before, I'm not fonded by people taking ideas for free, take monetary advantage and then disappear without a “thank you”. No credits to contributors, no return with the progress or test results. Without a diagram, and not knowing you, simply I just asked the question without worrying on being too direct.

May I ask where you are coming from?

If you ask about moral coordinates rather than GPS ones, I believe I just answered your question few lines above.

I would prefer that you ask about the device I am working on.

Yes please, but only if you could do it without “freeloaders” taking advantage of you work. Block diagram will suffice, or any other form you may find appropriate.

I conclusion, my intervention was not meant to offend you but rather to make you trust your own judgment. You used the word “should” as you trusted the books more than your own observations. As you progress with your own research, you will notice that less and less people or books can help you. I look forward to read your discoveries.

Regards.