SS Overunity battery charger

[CatVomit]

Hi guys,

I made a little experiment after I had a Eureeka moment couple weeks ago. The initial results seem promising. I was looking around to see if someone else had the same experiment, but I haven't found anything yet so I decided to post my idea here to see if there are people already explored this.

I've been tinkering with Bedini technology for quite some time, but something about the way it's set up made it hard for me to understand how it could achieve overunity.

Normally, we would energize the coil and then collect the BEMF (Flyback voltage) to charge the battery. Regardless of the setup, the components are not 100% efficient to begin with. Plus, people seem to be winding their coils without understanding the characteristics (behavior) of their coils. This would result in a random positive or negative results, so most likely, the BEMF itself is less than 90% of the original energy used to energize the coil.

After studying Joseph Newman's theories, I realized that we could charge the battery during the Energize phase and also the De-energize phase (BEMF). Even if the BEMF is less than 90%, the first phase (energizing) phase could very well compensate for it easily going over 100% !! This doesn't even include utilizing the magnetic field in the coil. In the typical Bedini motor, this magnetic field is converted into mechanical energy (the rotor).

Like the pendulum, the rotating mass (rotor) is actually a resonant system. Unfortunately, anytime we tap into that resonant system, it usually bogs it down changing its frequency and consequently, reducing its efficiency. To remedy this, it would require additional circuits making the whole thing too complicated for me (also, I suck at building motors). I finally switched to solid state to avoid this problem.

Here's a video of the little experiment I made. The results are posted at the end of the 12 minute video.

CatVomit's Overunity Pulse Charger - YouTube

Tell me what you think and possibly replicate this to confirm my findings

PEACE .........

[erfinder]

I think most overlook that which takes place when the circuit is made, when the switch is closed. Its quite refreshing to see you don't fall under the category of most.

I can't shake the feeling that I know you, weird......

Regards

[CatVomit]

Thanks ....

I've been around following the "free energy" community for quite some time

[boguslaw]

Did you used transistor as a switch ? I assume, you did because mosfet internal diode would probably mess with electrons flow. Could you confirm or post which one you used ? Hmm... doesn't that look like the buck step down converter ?

[Peter Lindemann]

RE-EMF Charger by Rene

Hey Cat.....,

Nice to see these ideas being looked at again. I think you'll find many of your ideas covered in this previous thread titled "RE-EMF Charger."

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...f-charger.html

In the RE-EMF thread, he uses a wall supply as the main source, but the rest is quite similar. Nice to see your results from using two batteries. In the other thread, the whole circuit is shown. It would be nice to see your complete set-up.

As for your cat, you might consider giving him some hairball medicine..

Good work,
Peter

[citfta]

Very similar to Ossie Callahan circuit.

This circuit is almost the same as the Ossie Callahan circuit. There are two differences. Ossie's circuit has the positives of the batteries tied together instead of the negatives. And Ossie used the regular trigger winding of the Bedini SSG to turn on the transistor.

I decided to try this circuit again as I never saw any real OU with the Ossie circuit before. It was very efficient but the batteries eventually ran down when swapping them around. Since I already had a couple of circuits built like the SSG with the coil and transistor connected I tried pulsing the transistor with my Picaxe using 1 ms pulses. As I swapped the batteries around I found they were slowly losing charge.

I next tried the circuit using the bike wheel and magnets to control the transistor. I also found I was slightly losing charge. However by adding a lot of resistance I was able to get the circuit to self oscillate. When I let it run like that and swapped batteries it appears they were slowly gaining in charge. I ran out of time today for more tests, but I want to make some much longer runs and see what happens. Could it be the whole secret to this circuit is to keep the on pulses very short as CatVomit has said? I want to try this with a signal generator driving the transistor and see what effect an even higher frequency than the natural self oscillation will produce.

Thanks CatVomit for posting this and getting me to look at this circuit again.

Carroll

[CatVomit]

Thank you for your feedbacks

Yes, I was using a transistor instead of a Mosfet. The Mosfet didn’t work well for some reason so I changed it to a regular NPN transistor with its base biased to the negative.

Having analyzed the circuit more in depth, I realized that there is a fundamental problem in the way we harvest the BEMF. This is because it is almost pure voltage with no current and our battery technology doesn’t really absorb this type of energy readily. To correct for this problem, it would be necessary to utilize a capacitor to convert the inductor’s flyback voltage back into current…. Wait huh ??

Well, If you think about it, the inductor is energized mostly by current and then store that energy in the magnetic fields. We expect it to spit out current once the energy is released (current in -> current out); but instead it gives us pure voltage. This did not make any sense to me and puzzled me for a year or so.

I am not a physicist or a scientist. I’m just a regular guy with lots of questions. I work mostly by intuition and common sense. With that out of the way, let’s examine my theory in detail.

The formula for the inductor and the capacitor is derived from Einstein’s equation E=mc2. (Thank you Mr. Newman)

L= ½ LI^2 (inductance multiplied by current)
C= ½ CV^2 (capacitance multiplied by voltage)

Notice the formula for the inductor. It clearly states that it uses current to store the energy, but we know it releases that energy in a form of pure voltage. However, the equation of the capacitor states that it will store energy as voltage and we know from experience that it will release that energy as a pulsed current. They are literally two sides of the same coin. In fact, the equation is preceded by “½ “ possible stating that the inductor and the capacitor are each half of the full equation E=MC2. So, using BEMF alone to power or charge our standard technology is simply inadequate for our purposes.

This was confirmed to me by watching someone on youtube making an experiment with BEMF storing it on a capacitor and then discharging it to the battery. According to his results, the battery was accepting the charge much better. I was already aware of this before, but I wanted to make this circuit simple as possible. Unfortunately, it may require additional components to accommodate for this. I was too excited to make this correction, but nonetheless the basic principle I showed in the video is still pretty solid.

I will continue to think about this some more……CHEERS

[Farmhand]

Cat vomit, I was wondering could you describe the coil your using, and the
frequency you are switching it at ?

When the coil discharges the current will be proportional to the voltage the
discharge is applied to.

If the discharging energy is directed to a 24 volts load a certain current will be
caused. But it is very intense and short lived.

If the same discharge is directed to 36 volt load the current will be less as the
load voltage is higher.

It may appear as if there is no current in a coil discharge to a battery but that
is only because of the briefness of it and the meters ability to register that properly.

The coil discharge to a capacitor at 24 volts compared to the discharge to a
battery in series with the supply battery giving 24 volts will look more or less
the same if both are referenced to the circuit ground.

The short duration high intensity currents directly to a battery can make the
battery show odd looking results.

I can show the voltage and the current in the impulse discharge from the coil
to the battery and as well to a capacitor on the scope. The power of any two
identical discharges would be very much the same into a capacitor or into a battery.

The difference between the direct diode method and the capacitor dump
method charging of the battery is that it takes in several or many coil
discharges before dumping it to the battery, so more energy is dumped less
frequently, Even though the intensity of the direct diode discharge current is
most likely a lot higher the amount of energy is only one discharge worth,
whereas with the capacitor method the energy is several discharges worth,
but less often.

Tell me an approximate frequency you use and a rough description of the coil
and I might be able to produce some hard data for you to ponder.

The best efficiency I can get from switching coils is between 90 and 95% efficient
with a boost converter, using 40 Khz and twin mosfets with low resistance
coils, schottky diodes and paralleled output capacitors..

Cheers

P.S. The discharge voltage only rises in order to overcome the resistance it faces in order to discharge.

..

[CatVomit]

Farmhand, It's a toroid transformer 115v AC to 15v (2 primaries, and 2 secondaries). I originally bought it to remove the core for another experiment, but it turns out that it is smaller than I expected from the Ebay picture ......I pulsed it at 60hz because I know the transformer was designed at that frequency. According to the formula, that was way above the lowest frequency I could use without losing efficiency and I didn't want to increase the frequency any higher because it would increase the reactance too much.

If BEMF has any current (beyond the micro amps), then I would assume that those who experimented with it would have been injured, after all, we're talking about voltage spikes that can reach 1000volts or more.

Let's assume for this discussion that BEMF does have a very intense current. The battery cannot absorb this kind of energy efficiently mainly due to its internal impedance. Most of this energy will be then wasted as heat. However, the capacitor is very much capable of accepting this kind of energy like a pro

It is true that using diode + capacitor would normally take several BEMF spikes before enough is collected to dump it to the battery. I suspect that this would be the case if we are using a large capacitor. If the capacitor is of appropriate size, we could collect the 1 BEMF spike at a time and then dump it to the battery.

[Farmhand]

The higher the voltage gets the less the intensity of the current.

I can assure you and show you that the direct discharge of a coil to a battery
does in fact cause significant current intensity. And I will.

Cheers

[CatVomit]

That would be awesome

If I can recover, at least, 30% of the BEMF energy and appropriately charge the battery with that, then I would be very happy because during the energizing phase, the secondary battery is receiving its charge directly from the primary battery. A direct transfer of charges like this probably has an efficiency close to 90%. Adding the BEMF to that process could easily go beyond 100%..

[Farmhand]

Yes it is interesting, here is the video below. Please read the video description
first below as I used RMS voltage when I think I should have selected Average voltage to get the charge current.

Peak impulse current was about 900mA. Average about 130 mA,
RMS was 250 mA or so but I don't think RMS was appropriate to use.

Coil discharge current - YouTube

Showing the current caused by the discharge of a coil complies with Ohms Law.
The energy released from the coil builds a voltage against the resistance to
cause the flow of current to continue. The higher resistance the higher the
voltage the coil discharges into and so the less the intensity of the current is.
I misspoke and said milli Amps instead of saying milli Volts when reading the
scope but corrected myself.

EDIT: I did some rounding of the figures for ease of calculations since the actual exact value was not needed.

The voltage is measured across 0.2 Ohms of resistance and was 180 mV peak
current which is 0.18 mV / 0.2 = 0.9 Amp peak current, I selected RMS voltage
in the video when I probably should have selected average current to get
the charge current value, I remeasured using Average Voltage selected and
got 26 mV across the resistors when I got 55 mV when RMS was selected.

So using the average voltage of 26 mV across the 0.2 Ohms resistance I get
current of 130 mA of charge current to the battery. If I take the 12.8 volts
the coil is discharging into and multiply by the charge current I get 1.66 Watts of output power.

The input looked like 220 mA at 12.5 volts which would be 2.75 Watts. But the
meters on the input were not so accurate and I was not trying to determine
efficiency, just showing the impulse charge current wave form mainly.

A similar but better test by using smoothing and filtering and showing
efficiency can be seen here Oscillator Efficiency Measurement - YouTube

Also an efficiency test of a boost converter is here. Boost Converter - YouTube

Cheers

[Farmhand]

That would be awesome

If I can recover, at least, 30% of the BEMF energy and appropriately charge the battery with that, then I would be very happy because during the energizing phase, the secondary battery is receiving its charge directly from the primary battery. A direct transfer of charges like this probably has an efficiency close to 90%. Adding the BEMF to that process could easily go beyond 100%..

Catvomit, exactly how are you charging the second battery during the energizing phase ?

..

[CatVomit]

Farmhand,

Thanks for the video. It was very informative and I learned something today

Catvomit, exactly how are you charging the second battery during the energizing phase ?

..

I showed this in my original video of how I set up the circuit so the secondary is being charged during the Energizing phase. Perhaps, I wasn't doing a good job of showing it (I felt that people probably thought it was a typical SS pulse charger).

Lemme see if I can explain it better in an example..... Primary battery is arranged in series showing me around 10v. Secondary battery is arranged in parallel so it's showing me exactly 1/2 of that which would be 5v.

The primary battery would then be connected in series with the coil going directly into the secondary batteries. Since the Voltage in the primary is much greater than the secondary, it would transfer its charge to the secondary (Like pouring a bucket of water to the next one except it's going through the coil). This is very much capable of delivering 4amps of current if I just let the switch turned on all the way.......

The steps:

1. [10v battery] -----> Coil ------> [5vbattery]
2. Turn off primary battery
3. Coil ----> BEMF -----> [5v battery]

I hope this makes it clearer ...... I'm terrible at explaining things.

I'm in the process of charging the batteries again. It took me 6 hours to discharge them using my children's toys ... I'm adding a capacitor in parallel to see if it would soak up some of the BEMF spikes and slowly give it to the secondary ...... I have other ideas to improve on this, but I thought I'll try the laziest version first.

[Farmhand]

Yes in that case the second battery being a lower voltage will charge directly
from the supply battery, then when the coil is switched off the discharge will go
to the charge battery as well. However the energy released from the coil
came from the supply battery to build the magnetic field of the coil.

As the series inductor charges, the current through it ramps up to maximum at a
certain rate because of the inductance of the coil. This is when the coil is
storing energy, and full current will not flow to the other battery until the
magnetic field is built to the maximum. Then when the switch is turned off the
energy is released from the coil.

From memory a capacitor discharge to a battery causes a similar current wave form
to the coil discharge if the energy is equal, and discharge path resistance is equal.

Especially if the capacitor is dumped at double the battery voltage.

A capacitor discharge will also cause an impulse discharge.

Cheers