Joseph Papp, Air Inert Gas Design, by Heinz Klostermann

[vrand]

- Running a Papp engine on just atmospheric air.
- No more mixing expensive noble gases in a vacuum.
- Working test model already built.
- Worked with Bob and Tom Rohner back in 2005.
- Already has patents; US7076950; US20060101816.
- Ready for mass production of a 2 or 4 cylinder engine within a year.
- Electric generator design for 50 kWp (built by DOE) can run on his Papp air design.

Heinz Klostermann has been working on this for the past couple of decades just released a video of his working air driven Papp engine model and talks about how it works.

Youtube: Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine
Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine - YouTube

More info:


PowerPedia:Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine - PESWiki

US Patents:
https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&...Klostermann%22

Cheers

[vrand]

Youtube: Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine
Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine - YouTube

At the 8 min. mark in the 20 min. video they show the launching of a 1.1 lb. 3" X 3" stainless steel cylinder, with lots of force, igniting just air.

Cool demonstration of the high power from HV pulses igniting just air, no noble gases or radioactive elements needed
Cheers

[Michael John Nunnerley]

At the 8 min. mark in the 20 min. video they show the launching of a 1.1 lb. 3" X 3" stainless steel cylinder, with lots of force, igniting just air.

Cool demonstration of the high power from HV pulses igniting just air, no noble gases or radioactive elements needed
Cheers

Not quite the case. If the air inside was at zero humidity you would not see this force, do I need to explain further!!

Now I wonder who was doing this before

Mike

[Johan]

Not quite the case. If the air inside was at zero humidity you would not see this force, do I need to explain further!!

Now I wonder who was doing this before

Mike

Thats what Klostermann is telling with normal air, and the water is also mentioned in the first patent from Papp!

Vacuum are seals there directed, below zero bar and it starts to ........... !

Regards, Johan

[vrand]

Thats what Klostermann is telling with normal air, and the water is also mentioned in the first patent from Papp!

Vacuum are seals there directed, below zero bar and it starts to ........... !

Regards, Johan

Interesting, as I did not know this, thanks for the info

Papp first patent US3670494, part of Claim #8 reads:

"said chamber containing and effective charge of between about 10 percent and 25 percent of de-oxygenated water, by volume, and the remaining volume being composed of a mixture of three or more noble gases..."

I do not recall ever reading the Rohner brothers mentioning this important requirement of having 10-25% water volume in their research with Papp?

Why the need to have water?

- Has more mass than the noble gases to push the piston?
- Has lower breakdown voltage, so the high current flows?
- easier to ionize?

"Build it and they will come."

Cheers

[vrand]

Not quite the case. If the air inside was at zero humidity you would not see this force, do I need to explain further!!

Now I wonder who was doing this before

Mike

It looks like Papp also says this, needing 10-25% of water by volume!

Yes, would you please explain why the need for water gas.

Also, how is the water made into a gas? Electrolyzing the water to oxyhydrogen gas? Or, by high pressure water mister? Humidifier?

Cheers

[tachyon]

you only need water mist no electrolysing.. and you have to control the charge density or crank up the voltage... the only problem with all these "engines" are the corroding electrodes..are there still people that think that this force is coming from water? (this has been discovered from the 70's ...) oh yes you have to control the ionization state.. :P will you build one... the video says enough..

[vrand]

you only need water mist no electrolysing.. and you have to control the charge density or crank up the voltage... the only problem with all these "engines" are the corroding electrodes..are there still people that think that this force is coming from water? (this has been discovered from the 70's ...) oh yes you have to control the ionization state.. :P will you build one... the video says enough..

Mark Hugo in this video says that Papp is electrolyzing the water.



Mark Hugo demonstrates how HHO may be a nuclear process involving cold fusion, and may also be the force responsible for the Papp Engine.

It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine - YouTube

It looks like there are a lot of processes happening in the simple Papp design.

Cheers

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Excellent

Mark Hugo in this video says that Papp is electrolyzing the water.



Mark Hugo demonstrates how HHO may be a nuclear process involving cold fusion, and may also be the force responsible for the Papp Engine.

It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine - YouTube

It looks like there are a lot of processes happening in the simple Papp design.

Cheers

Thank you for posting this video, it brings together what I have been saying for many years here, an excellent explination.

Mike

[vrand]

Thank you for posting this video, it brings together what I have been saying for many years here, an excellent explination.

Mike

Yes, Mechanical & Electrical Engineer Mark Hugo also does a great job in explaining how the 20-30% gasoline saving in cars with HHO/oxyhydrogen gas being reported worldwide, using the "cold fusion" nuclear processes theories of Fisher, Oriani, McKubre, Storms and many others over the past 24 years.

Here is John Fisher interesting theory:

OUTLINE OF POLYNEUTRON THEORY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57700187,d.cGE

What is needed is a working "free energy" device to power our homes and cars.

Cheers

Corrected Mark Hugo's background experience, and here is his resume:
Hugo Resume Onward

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Yes, Mechanical & Electrical Engineer Mark Hugo also does a great job in explaining how the 20-30% gasoline saving in cars with HHO/oxyhydrogen gas being reported worldwide, using the "cold fusion" nuclear processes theories of Fisher, Oriani, McKubre, Storms and many others over the past 24 years.

Here is John Fisher interesting theory:

OUTLINE OF POLYNEUTRON THEORY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57700187,d.cGE

What is needed is a working "free energy" device to power our homes and cars.

Cheers

Corrected Mark Hugo's background experience, and here is his resume:
Hugo Resume Onward

Thanks for the paper, with you around it's like having a librarian on hand

Mike

[vrand]

Thanks for the paper, with you around it's like having a librarian on hand

Mike

Thank God for the Internet

Some info on needing water or humidity in the Papp design.

John Rohner's, 11/19/2009, Patent Application US20110113772 references the Klostermann, 2006 Patent #7076950.


Plasmic transition process motor
Patent US20110113772 - Plasmic transition process motor - Google Patents

John does not use the electrolyzing (water in the humidity?) air as Klostermann uses, nor does he use the electrolyzing of the 20% water specified by Papp in his first patent. Klostermann does not specify the amount of humidity of the air so more testing would be required to determine the minimum percentage of water.

John does say in his patent application that hydrogen is used for speeding up the reaction or generating additional power for larger engines.

So we have seen videos of working test devices from Papp, and Klostermann that needed water/humidity to operate. No video's from John Rohner. Unknown if Bob Rohner uses or needs to electrolyze water in his device?

Lots of action in developing the Papp invention, hoping that something works!

Cheers

[vrand]

Here is John Fisher interesting theory:

OUTLINE OF POLYNEUTRON THEORY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57700187,d.cGE

Speaking about electrolyzers and electrolytes that neutrons and alpha particles form the Polyneutron Theory:

Lithium Sulphate, Li2SO4 was used by Oriani in his "Cold Fusion" electrolyzer experiments. Mark Hugo referenced Henry "Dad" Garrett's 1936 Sulphuric Acid electrolyzer device when he talked about creating HHO in fueling a car.

Both had sulfur in the electrolyte. Is there something special about sulfur? In ancient times the Philosopher's Stone to make gold by transmutation often used sulfur.

Lithium was also special for the "Fast Freddy" device when he was running his truck on his cell design. Lithium is often used by conventional nuclear reactors in absorbing neutrons.

Still much to learn

Cheers

[tachyon]

lithium is very important.. about water it's not the key element here , it only helps because of plasma expansion but energy is not coming from water!

[tutanka]

air can be ignited...

Air can be ignited simply respecting simple conditions. I have tested this condition in my latest reactor and the air is transformed in gas and is burned at the same time.