Announcement

**Ernst** · 10-15-2012, 02:42 AM

**Farmhand** · 10-15-2012, 03:39 AM

Hi Ernst, I'm not able to understand the Theory well so I can't comment on that,
but I have done the experiments and I do not agree with Meyls findings, I think I
agree almost entirely with your findings. It is possible to tune the setup to act in
different ways it can be made to come "into tune" when a load is added.

I also notice if I excite a transmitter primary past the resonant frequency at a
higher frequency a situation occurs where the primary and secondary voltage
become 180 degrees out of phase rather than 0 degrees in phase although this
test was done with a ground connected transmitter. I think this could explain
the two modes of resonance. Although I did consider the possibility
that it could be caused by a mismatch of primary secondary resonance. If I go
to about 1/3 of those frequencies I see a strong response for the two modes as
well.

Blue traces are the primary wave form (direct connection) and the yellow are the secondary wave form
obtained by a hanging probe near the secondary. The coil is just driven by a
function generator but it will light neons when driven by the function generator.

The third and fourth shots are when the primary is excited at about 1/3 of the
respective frequencies the third shot I think shows the secondary reacting on
the primary and the fourth shot shows it not affecting the primary much at all. My coupling is close.

Cheers

**dR-Green** · 10-15-2012, 03:41 AM

Nice work Ernst. Now that you have disposed of Meyl and his disinfo, read all posts by user "Dollard, E. P. (N6KPH)" and "T-rex".

Energetic Forum

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1631-peter-whatever-happened-eric-p-dollard-3.html#post90090

**Ernst** · 10-15-2012, 07:32 AM

@ Farmhand,

It looks like you have some interesting experiment there. But from the description I can not deduce with certainty what you have done exactly and in what order.
For example: did you first get a 0 phase shift, and then by changing the frequency only, you get a 180 phase shift?
With these experiments you have to be very precise to eliminate possibly disturbing influences. The pics 3 and 4 show, judging it from here, an interference pattern. That is all I can say.....

@ dR-Green,

I believe you have said something vaguely similar on previous encounters?
I truely trust your good intentions but just saying "Ok, now read through this pile of info" is not helping me. Isn't there some compact overview of Eric's work, preferably with references to more detailed info.
To be honest, I have been reading large parts of his work, and I find it helpfull at some points. But his work would be much more accessable (for me) if he would leave out his spiteful remarks. I understand perfectly where that comes from and I sympathise with him, let that be understood, but it does not help him getting his views across.
Also I notice some differences between his theory and Tesla's and as long as I do not understand either to their full extend, I would blindly follow Tesla.

Ernst.

**Farmhand** · 10-15-2012, 08:10 AM

Yes that is what I did, and shots three and four are produced by just
changing the frequency to about 1/3 of the frequency of the shots 1 and 2.

Shot one is resonance in phase then I adjusted only the frequency of the input
up to see shot 2, then I adjusted frequency only down to 1/3 of shot one's frequency to see
shot 3 and then adjusted up to 1/3 of shot two's frequency is shot 4.

Yes I know things influence the coils, this was not a factor of influence it is the
result of simply changing the input frequency. The secondary circuit still oscillates
at the fundamental frequency when the primary is pulsed at 1/3 of that, as it
should. Shot's three and four show that, shot's 1 and 2 the primary is excited
at the full frequency.

Meyl adjust's his frequency up to about 7 mHz from about 5 mHz and then claims
the higher frequency is the scalar mode, which I think is complete rubbish.

Cheers

**dR-Green** · 10-15-2012, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by Ernst View Post

Also I notice some differences between his theory and Tesla's and as long as I do not understand either to their full extend, I would blindly follow Tesla.

What are you referring to? Yes I said "read this" because on the previous encounter I had also said that Meyl was doing his own thing not replicating Tesla, so now that you are satisfied that that is the case I gave a reminder of a better alternative since you seem to be interested in the theory. There isn't really a condensed overview, but there are videos that will help.

Eric Dollard - S.F.T.S. - Dec. 9, 2007 - Part 1 - YouTube

Eric Dollard Peter Lindemann Tesla's Longitudinal Electricity - YouTube

Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves

The Tesla Marconi Wireless System - YouTube

And "Condensed Intro To Tesla Transformers"

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Eric_Dollard_Document_Collection/Condensed%20intro%20to%20Tesla%20Transformers%20by%20Eric%20Dollard.pdf

**Farmhand** · 10-15-2012, 03:26 PM

Anyway I very much hope to see some learned discussion about the theory side
of things you presented. And maybe some more "laymans" explanations if
possible to go along with it. It's good to see others who are capable like yourself
looking into these things and posting about it. It is much appreciated, personally
I would consider your findings on these things very interesting.

Cheers

P.S. Ernst, I was wondering if you could provide a link to Meyl's writings or such if
it is possible ?

Oh I'm, sorry it's easy to find. Meyl - Scalarwave-Technology - The european website of www.k-meyl.de

..

**dR-Green** · 10-15-2012, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Farmhand View Post

P.S. Ernst, I was wondering if you could provide a link to Meyl's writings or such if
it is possible ?

Oh I'm, sorry it's easy to find. Meyl - Scalarwave-Technology - The european website of www.k-meyl.de

..

Having a quick look through this:

404 Not Found

http://www.k-meyl.de/go/Primaerliteratur/Wireless-Energy-Transfer.pdf

The self-resonance of the Tesla coils, according to the frequency counter, lies at 7
MHz. Now the frequency is ran down and see there, at approx. 4.7 MHz the
receiver again glows, but less bright, easily shieldable and without discernible
effect back on the transmitter. Now we unambiguously are dealing with the
transmission of the Hertzian part and that goes with the speed of light. Since the
wavelength was not changed, does the proportion of the frequencies determine the
proportion of the velocities of propagation. The scalar wave according to that goes
with (7/4.7=) 1.5 times the speed of light!

For one thing, he assumes that at 4.7 Mc the propagation is 100% luminal. This will not be the case, as I'm sure that we are all well aware that EM waves will never travel at the speed of light on earth and in coils, supposedly it will in free space/a vacuum, but certainly not in our experiments with wires on earth. What IS the wavelength of his coil? He doesn't say, not that I've seen. He hasn't bothered to calculate the 100% luminal frequency from the wavelength, which is non-existent here, before telling us that 4.7 Mc is "at the speed of light".

I would have thought that when discussing velocity, the distance travelled would be quite an important factor to consider

**GSM** · 10-15-2012, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Ernst View Post

This other result does in fact contain a scalar, a longitudinal and a transverse component (3 parts, not 2).

Good on you for sticking with that Ernst, though I do need to say that the pure maths is way above my head.

I have in the past watched the Meyl demonstration lecture and formed the opinion he had not demonstrated longitudinal radiation at all. I did however feel that he knew and knows exactly what he was and is doing, and that his main aim is for the sale of parts and equipment related to further investigations.

I have also felt that Eric's rope demo of longitudinal radiation is quite wrong, because of course there is not a direct connection as his rope suggests, for longitudinal radiation can pass right through a 'solid' metal screen, or even two as the Old Scientist has demonstrated.

Which brings me to the scentence I have lifted out of your post, and your use of the words 'scalar', 'longitudinal' and 'transverse' in one sentence.
Is that 'scalar' alternating 'longitudinally' such that it is capable of cyclical 'transverse' transduction + re-radiation ?

I am attempting to question your maths with a purely imaginary concept, but I cannot be sure my question is understandable, and I don't know of any other better way to put it.

Cheers .......... Graham.
.

**garrettm4** · 10-15-2012, 10:40 PM

A Circuit Analyis view - as opposed to using Maxwell-Heaviside Equations

Ernst,

Since I don't have a degree in radio engineering nor any related field, here's some select quotes of Eric's posts along with some small commentary by myself. I hope this string of posts will share some of the more technical side of Eric's work regarding longitudinal waves.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

*First I would like to say that I'm not representing anyone in any way, aside from myself, and anything wrongly stated by myself is solely due to my own ignorance and inabilities. All content in blue and all pictures is Eric's work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

***Posts regarding NEAR-FIELD longitudinal propagation***

*Telluric propagation and reception could be argued as being a sudo near-field coupling rather than as a far-field propagation through free-space. Similar to how a 60cycle transformer works but done at long distances. Longitudinal free-space propagation is NOT discussed by Eric,however, he does make mention as to a few ideas on how he would experiment in this direction though. His efforts are mainly with transformers and telluric/ground-radio.*

Reference 1#:

Extending Inductance and Capacitance

Reference #2

(continued in part2)

**garrettm4** · 10-15-2012, 10:51 PM

A Circuit Analyis view - as opposed to using Maxwell-Heaviside Equations Pt2

Continuing with: ***Posts regarding NEAR-FIELD longitudinal propagation***

Reference #3

Lamare Dialogue

When considering waves on coiled windings, leave out the electrons, let us forget them once and for all. They are for electronic devices (RG) NOT for electrical devices (LC). Forget the electrons, forget it!

It is generally considered that any wave must consist of a conjugate pair of energies, magnetic and dielectric let's say. Only then an interaction between time and space is possible. As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced. The propagation constant is then equal to:

(1) Negative Gamma Square

Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.

There are four distinct forms of energy stored in a winding,
Magnetic Pair:

L, Leakage Inductance, Henry
M, Mutual Inductance, per Henry

Dielectric Pair:

C, Leakage Capacitance, Farad
K, Mutual Capacitance, per Farad

The Magnetic Distribution along the coil axis is given by

(2) Epsilon to the square root of LM power. It is an exponential curve along the axis.

The Dielectric Distribution along the coil axis is given by

(3) Epsilon to the square root of CK power. It too is an exponential curve along the axis.

LM an CK are time scalars hence it can be seen that these initial distributions at t = 0 give rise to complex energy exchanges because of the exponential space distributions. We have now a fourth order differential in space and time. Alice lands in Wonderland. Forget Maxwell, forget the Corums, dead ends, forget them once and for all!!

Continuing with the four energy co-efficients:

LC, this gives the space scalar frequencies of oscillation, having no distribution in space, only in time (dot product)

MK, this gives the "Tesla Vector" normal to the coil windings, a counter-velocity in per centimeters per second. (axial product)

Also,

L/K this gives the clockwise "Poynting Vector" around the circumference of the coil windings, a velocity in centimeters per second (cross product)

C/M, this gives the counter-clockwise "Poynting Vector" around the circumference of the coil windings, a velocity in centimeters per second (cross product)

(4) Hence (LC + MK(k^2)) + k(L/K - C/M)

(5) a +kb

The Heaviside relation for the dimension of space. For the condition of balance,

(6) L/K = C/M

The T.E.M. component vanishes and the "Poynting Vectors" cancel out. The resistance of the coil also cancels out giving rise to a very great magnification factor, as well as a pure longitudinal wave, a "Tesla Coil".

Forget the Corums, the Bewelly-Dollard Theory has made them obsolete. Also it is my own belief that we have outgrown Maxwell. The path started by Tesla, Through Steinmetz and Alexanderson, to L.V. Bewelly has taken us far beyond the primordial physics interpretation of J.C. Maxwell. Leyden Jars and scales have grown to giant substation transformers and high speed oscilloscopes. We are entering a brave new world of electricity, electricity without electrons.

*Personal Notes on Energy Flow*

Single Path "Pure" Modes:

1)...LC = Transverse-Electro-Magnetic, T.E.M.

.....T.E.M. represents pure TRANSVERSE energy flow

2)...MK = Longitudinal-Magneto-Dielectric, L.M.D.

......L.M.D. represents pure LONGITUDINAL energy flow

Dual Path "Hybrid" Modes:

a)...MC = Transverse-Electric, T.E. & Longitudinal-Magneto, L.M.

......T.E. represents a TRANSVERSE electric energy flow
......L.M. represents a LONGITUDINAL magnetic energy flow

b)...LK = Transverse-Magnetic, T.M. & Longitudinal-Dielectric, L.D.

.....T.M. represents TRANSVERSE magnetic energy flow
......L.D. represents LONGITUDINAL electric energy flow

MK, energy travels in between windings via mutual coupling. LC, energy travels along the entire length of winding, as if it were a pair of straight wires. LK & MC, energy moves in a SPIRAL propagation, each in a different direction, a HYBRID of both the T.E.M. and L.M.D. energy flows.

Going back to circuit theory, two forms of resonance can take place in a single layer solenoid, PARALLEL and SERIES resonance. When the susceptances of the C & M parameters are equal, parallel resonance is present. When the reactances of the L & K parameters are equal, series resonance is present. When both forms of resonance take place, two counter rotating energy flows are present due to the energy exchanges between the distributed circuit parameters, LK (T.M./L.D.) and CM (T.E./L.M.). In this condition, the transverse components T.E. & T.M. cancel out, leaving the longitudinal L.D. & L.M. energy flow. This results in a pure L.M.D. energy propagation from the solenoid. Coupling with a distant receiver is done either as L.D. or L.M., where L.M. uses the earth for telluric transmission and the L.D. uses the atmosphere for dielectric transmission. A free-space L.M.D. or L.D. coupling has not ever been proven and is foggy at best. L.M. coupling through the earth is what Tesla referred to when talking about "wireless" power transmission.

***Posts regarding FAR-FIELD longitudinal propagation***

Reference #4

Lamare Lunar Effort; Ideas

The longitudinal antennae ideas seem stuck in the mud. Seems everything is quasi E.M. "Electrical Soundwaves in the Aether", Tesla. Only two ways I see; a form of open ended circular waveguide. One mode, hard to excite, is longitudinal. Please post circular waveguide mode chart (Frederich Terman)!!
Another way is a tiny U.H.F. resonant coil, NOT A HELICAL RESONATOR. AN OPEN COIL NOT ENCLOSED IN A COAXIAL CYLINDER.

For the circular waveguide the pipe is closed on one end, open at the other end. Open end may require mode stabilizer. The proper mode of excitation is extremely important! (Terman, Radio Engineers Handbook)

For the resonant coil, a disk larger than coil diameter at current end, a disk smaller than coil diameter at voltage end. Ratio of disk diameters derived from coil impedance. Excite coil with small loop. As for the frequency; For the waveguide must be greater than 1000 Mc, for the coil must be less than 1000 Mc. These would be my first efforts to create electrical soundwaves in the aether. The longitudinal waves of my work involves Telluric Waves (submarines) and windings (transformers). Free space longitudinal waveforms may not have any relation to my (MK) waves

More to follow as I get time.

Regards,
Garrett M

**Farmhand** · 10-16-2012, 01:52 AM

Isn't the apparent over luminal velocity of resonant air core coils just the result
of the wave not actually having to travel the entire length of the wire but calculated
as if it does travel the entire distance of the wire giving the appearance of over
luminal velocity ? Layman's answer please.

......
Anyway

Meyl says this below, however it sounds wrong to me, I don't see how Tesla
could have possibly operated the Colorado transmitter at 6 Hz, has anybody
seen reference to this feat. I think Tesla merely stated the frequencies he
thought the Earth would resonate at going by his experiments.

The near field (Scalar wave acc. to Tesla)
In the proximity it looks completely different. The proximity concerns
distances to the transmitter of less than the wavelength divided by 2.
Nikola Tesla has broadcasted in the range of long waves, around 100
Kilohertz, in which case the wavelength already is several kilometres. For
the experiments concerning the resonance of the earth he has operated
his transmitter in Colorado Springs at frequencies down to 6 Hertz. Doing so the whole earth moves into the proximity of his transmitter. We
probably have to proceed from assumption that the Tesla radiation primarily concerns the proximity, which also is called the radiant range of
the transmitting antenna.

404 Not Found

http://www.k-meyl.de/go/Primaerliteratur/scalar_wave-effects.pdf

It looks to me that Meyl is selling some PCB coils, some misc. parts eg, spheres
and a sine wave generator.

In reality transmissions the way he does it are easy. It's the circuit to run the
transmitter in the mHz range without buying a signal generator that is the
difficulty, one that can deliver more power.

Cheers

**Ernst** · 10-16-2012, 01:55 AM

Ok, let's answer this in FIFO order....

@ dR-Green,
On the differences I believe to have found between Tesla and Dollard. Let me first say that I am not ready for an in depth discussion on this subject as I do not yet fully understand both theories. But I am quite sure that when Tesla mentions 1/4 wavelength he is talking about the entire circuit length (ground to top-load). In Eric's explanaition of (3 coil) Tesla systems, he talks about 1/4 wavelength or 1/2 wavelength per coil.
This is the major difference that I believe I have found. There are some small other issues but those could also be misinterpretations on my side.

@ Farmhand,
Vector calculus is not actually that difficult, there are some nice video's on youtube explaining the curl, div and grad. These help you visualise what is going on, and from there you'll pick things up quicker than you would now think.

@ GSM,
The 'old scientists' believed in ether and I think that is a good thing because many things become much more easy to explain that way. The way I interpret it, it is like this:
ether is everywhere, in the vacuum, in matter, everywhere. It behaves like an incompressable liquid. Hence, there is 'a rope' pervading all matter and any movement in this liquid results in movements propagating through this liquid.
Floating in this liquid there are carriers for certain properties, like electrical charge.
Anyway, this is the picture I get when reading the 'old science'. But there are still some issues that I do not yet fully comprehend.
Like for instance, sometimes it looks as if a charge carrier is just a mathematical construct with no actual physical presence, just like 'the beginning or end of a trajectory'.
Then when I think in terms of vortices things get more interesting but still do not provide a full explanation. A vortex in 2D can be seen as a circle with 2 forces, one on the outside pointing inward and one on the inside pointing outward. This sound like an equilibrium, but it is not. Look in a bath tub vortex, it exists because matter is flowing out perpendicular to the area of the circle. In other words, a 2D vortex can only exist in a 3D space, because it needs an extra dimension.
OK? Now add 1 more dimension to this example. We get a vortex in 3D which may look like a ball sucking in surrounding matter. But this matter has to go somewhere to maintain the vortex, so we need 1 more dimension.
This was the reason why I tried to rewrite Meyl's work in 4D. Unfortunately that can not be done.

Which brings me to the scentence I have lifted out of your post, and your use of the words 'scalar', 'longitudinal' and 'transverse' in one sentence.

longitudinal and transverse are occilations (AC), scalar is more like expanding DC.
Try to get a copy of Turtur's work. This deals with that scalar part and also proofs its existance both in theory and a practical experiment.
If you have trouble finding it on the internet I can always send you a copy by email.

@ garrettm4,
Thank you so much! Your overview is very much appreciated! I have not read it yet, but I will some time today...

Ernst.

**dR-Green** · 10-16-2012, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by Farmhand View Post

Isn't the apparent over luminal velocity of resonant air core coils just the result
of the wave not actually having to travel the entire length of the wire but calculated
as if it does travel the entire distance of the wire giving the appearance of over
luminal velocity ? Layman's answer please.

Yes. I haven't done these tests on the flat spirals so I can't comment from that side, but the point is you need to know what the actual wavelength is and what is "100%" before you can say your result is higher or lower than it. He hasn't bothered to consider the distance travelled, he just found a resonant peak on the coil at 4.7 Mc, called that "the speed of light", and went on his merry way from there. So we have no idea whether his result is actually "faster" or "slower" than light. If 7 Mc is below the luminal frequency of the coil based on wire length then obviously there's no faster than light measurements at all, there's no way to tell because he forgot to mention it.

Announcement

Konstatin Meyl's mistake in Theory and Practice

Konstatin Meyl's mistake in Theory and Practice

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment