Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[Aaron]

posting

UFO, all working good now?

[seaad]

F. Y. I.
- Asynchronous system (eliminate BEMF) => efficiency = or > 1;
FIN

Solarlab; Hello FIN is it possible you can show some references to this? To study.
And can you give some examples of some such (real working) apparatus.

(I found this wery interesting: http://www.energeticforum.com/293040-post10820.html and EH, HZ antennas.)

Regards / Arne

Solarlab; There is No Bemf in the Figuera device what so ever
MM

When can we expect to see some proof of that? / Arne

[marathonman]

Device

Seaad;

Try actually studying the device and see for your self and quit relying on other people to do your work for you.
if you spent 1/4 of the time building from the time you spend on bumping your gums your device would be finished by now.

Good day.

MM

[SlickDick]

Seaad;

... quit relying on other people to do your work for you.

MM

The irony

[marathonman]

?

THE Stupidity.
and this is coming from a person that builds Nothing, that jumps from thread to thread running his mouth.
how much do you get paid as a government misinformant DICK.
i hope it pays well as they sure are getting their monies worth.

MM

[seaad]

Seaad;
Try actually studying the device and see for your self and quit relying on other people to do your work for you.
if you spent 1/4 of the time building from the time you spend on bumping your gums your device would be finished by now.
MM

MM; It can be good to get knowledge from different sources and angles too. I don't blindly rely on - everybody (You ). To studying the device on your own is of course mandatory to your minions as well as to myself.

About gums. I'm retired so I have lots of time. I have only reached just above or near 100% and that is not enough for me so I'm not building (BIG) now until I have The Real Figuera OU-principle in my "hand" (small).

Keep on building MM / Arne

[Ufopolitics]

UFO, all working good now?

Yes Aaron, Thanks much!!

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Pending Post from yesterday

Hello Bistander,

Thanks again, what I meant above is that you are mentioning the voltage "crash and burn" as a one time operation, and so, the current takes over...and it was not specified that it is a constant renewable operation during the whole feeding of the coil.

Yes I agree about the voltage as an instantaneous value, which is constantly renewed according to resistance value.

However, the way you are describing a Coil Function above, relates more to the description of a Wound Resistor Operation, basically when reading your final statement in bold letters...:

All of that has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

When we have a Wound Coil on a steel core we must comprehend (include) its magnetic field as the resulting "product"...and so, all that Voltage, Current and Resistance work, are all in function to generate a spatially projected magnetic field of a certain strength value.

I know you are looking at coil as a plain inductor on a circuit board...while I am more into viewing the Exciting System of a Generator...so, understood are different views but related to the same component...a coil on a steel core.

However, an Inductor on a board...magnetic field is completely neglected as it is not interacting with absolutely anything else there.

On a second part related to your analysis of the V, I & R on the Coil...got a question:

If we have a Coil on a Steel Core which we interrupt every certain timing to restart it again, several times during operation...I then ask you...does it takes same energy to restart coil as it took to start it from zero in the initial input of power?

IMO, it takes much less energy, since some energy-as you also wrote previously- is stored in the magnetic field...and so, the more times it is restarted the lesser energy it would consume...am I right?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

@ Aaron,

Hello Aaron,

Let me explain what was going on yesterday and still is doing it now:

On the above post addressed to Bistander I included his quoted text on the top:

Hi Ufo,

I did say "All voltage is dropped across the resistance". I did not say "One time operation". I do not understand that.

Voltage is an instantaneous value, as is power. In the DC static or steady state case, the voltage is the same value at each instant. Assuming the coil resistance is constant, then the power is constant or the same value at each instant. And for each and every instant in time when that voltage is present across the coil, it is dropped across the coil resistance and the resulting power is converted to waste heat in the coil resistance for the duration. If in fact the voltage and resistance were constant for that duration, then the duration time multiplied by the power yields the energy (or heat quantity) converted in the coil.

All of that has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

I hope that helps,

bi

...and it kept refusing it by sending me to a blank page where the link address is below:

http://www.energeticforum.com/editpost.php?do=updatepost&postid=298834

If you call that link by putting it on navigator, it will send you also to a blank page...at least it does to me...

After I took off the quoted text it went through...like shown above.

I have no idea why is doing it...


Thanks again and regards


Ufopolitics

[Solarlab]

Solarlab; Hello FIN is it possible you can show some references to this? To study.
And can you give some examples of some such (real working) apparatus.

(I found this wery interesting: http://www.energeticforum.com/293040-post10820.html and EH, HZ antennas.)

Regards / Arne



/ Arne

==============

Asymmetric discussions: [extra energy output - general discussions]

https://translate.google.com/transla...j-texniki.136/

In particular: [good discussion on asymetric transformers]

https://translate.google.com/transla...x-sxemax.8970/https://translate.google.com/transla...x-sxemax.8970/

There are examples included within the discussions above. One well known example
asynchronous apparatus is Tesla's Bifilar winding.

Very brief overview: To date, each OU FE/CE, BTG, etc. system that has been analyzed
to any detail "appears" to contain, in one form or another, an Asynchronous aspect.
That is, the Output [the work done] is isolated, to a great extent at least, from influencing the Input
[the originating or driving source].

Also - inter-twined - these systems operate in what "appears" to be
an Open Loop scenario. Present systems are mainly Closed Loop types which do not "appear"
to be capable of operation exceeding near 94% for even the most efficient design.

And, it "appears" an "extra mechanism" is required "within" these systems in order to achieve
more output from the system than what is input to the system. Although this "extra mechanism"
is referred to under many names and theories; strong evidence suggests that in at least several
cases, the mechanism is electrodynamic (a.k.a electrostatic, etc.) and/or magnetic; and is in some
cases combined with a "high Q" resonance [oscillation, standing/traveling wave, etc.] effect.

Very brief conclusion: Simplified - isolate the input and the output - asynchronous system; combined
with possibly an electrodynamic/magnetic energy generating "extra" mechanism; and design/make
the system as efficient as practicable.

In response to your inquiry, see my previous posts in this and the OU forums and follow the included
links and references. The subject is complex and very fragmented at this moment in history. However,
once a "reasonable" conclusion to the study of these systems is achieved, the detailed analysis,
including engineering data and experimental verification, will be memorialized.

BTW; I generally do not follow the threads - I post information only that IMHO may assist in a better
understanding, thus, F.Y.I.. FIN is "end" as seen in many old (really old) foreign technical movies - it
is meant to denote a completion of the post; a "..." would indicate a follow-on or continuation at
a later date.

A few posts with information, links, etc. (??? value):

Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE

CORRECTION: A reference to Chapter 22 in the above OU post is incorrect - should be Chapter 18:
Dealing with Lenz's Law


Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGYhttp://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze...497/#msg499497

http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze...007/#msg494007http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze...007/#msg494007


Hope this was of some value, good luck and have a great weekend!

[seaad]

Solarlab; Thank you. I'm going to study your answer - input suggestions bit by bit and see if i can find some "gold nuggets". / Arne

[bistander]

Reply to Ufo

Hi Ufo,

I'll insert answers and comments:

Hello Bistander,

Thanks again, what I meant above is that you are mentioning the voltage "crash and burn" as a one time operation, and so, the current takes over...and it was not specified that it is a constant renewable operation during the whole feeding of the coil.

>I don't understand: "crash and burn", "one time operation", "current takes over", and "constant renewable operation during the whole feeding of the coil" used in the context of my post to which you have replied. You sometimes have a strange way of describing things in my opinion but I am hesitant to agree with wording I find vague or confusing.

Yes I agree about the voltage as an instantaneous value, which is constantly renewed according to resistance value.

>Again, "constantly renewed according to resistance value" is vague and confusing to me.

However, the way you are describing a Coil Function above, relates more to the description of a Wound Resistor Operation, basically when reading your final statement in bold letters...:

All of that has nothing to do with the magnetic field.

When we have a Wound Coil on a steel core we must comprehend (include) its magnetic field as the resulting "product"...and so, all that Voltage, Current and Resistance work, are all in function to generate a spatially projected magnetic field of a certain strength value.

>No. Again, the Voltage and Resistance have nothing to do with the magnetic field.

I know you are looking at coil as a plain inductor on a circuit board...while I am more into viewing the Exciting System of a Generator...so, understood are different views but related to the same component...a coil on a steel core.

>It does not matter if the inductor is air core, steel core, on a circuit board or in a generator. If it has the same inductance it will behave the same in the electric circuit. Depending on the environment (materials and geometry of the magnetic circuit), the flux can be different resulting from the mmf.

However, an Inductor on a board...magnetic field is completely neglected as it is not interacting with absolutely anything else there.

>No, the flux interacts with the coil itself creating the inductance and the magnetic field from the coil will store energy.

On a second part related to your analysis of the V, I & R on the Coil...got a question:

If we have a Coil on a Steel Core which we interrupt every certain timing to restart it again, several times during operation...I then ask you...does it takes same energy to restart coil as it took to start it from zero in the initial input of power?

>When you connect the coil ends to a source you apply a potential difference across the coil causing a current to start to flow. Assuming initial current was zero, then there is no magnetic field resulting from the coil at time zero. At time 0+ (an instant after the voltage is applied) the current and magnetic field start to build according to the relationship shown here:



Once the current rises to its final value the magnetic field is established and if the source voltage remains connected to the coil, the current (DC) and field remain constant, and the energy stored in the field stays there unchanged. Once the source is disconnected, the current and field start to decay (discharge) and the stored energy in the field is delivered to the circuit where it is converted to heat in resistance, used elsewhere, or dissipated as heat and light across the arcing contacts of the switch which broke the circuit.

The duration of the DC, or constant current and field can range from seconds, minutes, hours to milliseconds. But at each and every instant or moment during the "on" period, there is a unique voltage, current and power. One finds the energy for that period through integration of power over the time. If a subsequent charge cycle starts before the inductor is fully discharged, then that is accounted for by using the instantaneous current as a starting point instead of zero. So yes, it will require less than a full charge to rise to the final value (applies to current and field both). PWM does this by applying a voltage pulse train and the resulting current waveform is somewhat sawtooth. The field value follows the current waveform.

IMO, it takes much less energy, since some energy-as you also wrote previously- is stored in the magnetic field...and so, the more times it is restarted the lesser energy it would consume...am I right?

This depends on the duration of the on and off periods and the inductance.

Regards

bi

[bistander]

Single piece part G

Decided on internal commutation, so made up very tight fitting 30mm thick plug which will also act as bottom bearing for brush holder.

Almost ready to epoxy,and skim the bars, very gently, just got to finish all the outside jumper connections.

Hi Cornboy,

You indicate that you intend to have the brush rotate inside the hole and contact the flat conductors directly without the use of a separate commutator switching device. Two things come to mind. (1) Centrifugal force will increase the brush friction as RPM increase. You may want to calculate that in advance to see if it is a manageable figure. (2) With this method of contacting directly on the part G toroid winding, those jumpers that you are installing on the outside are not used.

Regards,

bi

[Cornboy 555]

Thanks bistander, the brush will have very little start pressure, and Carbon is quite light, and i am using a rectified secondary output, so rpm probably won't be very high, just the best RPM for the best induction of secondaries.

As for connections, you may well be right, i am following the patent, and may have misinterpreted, so if someone else can shed light on this as well, that would be great.

Best Regards Cornboy.

[seaad]

After the latest posts here and there, I'm feeling dejected and don't know if I should laugh or cry. I'm getting the same feeling as when I look at pictures of malnourished children from poor hot country's.
I have a small amount of some rudimentary knowledge about things suitable here. Not all ,far far far from , but I anyhow know MY limits.

Sorry Cornboy you need very high speed/RPM! / Arne