Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[marathonman]

Systems

Simple stuff here.

Part G, Set N, Set S are one system, Secondary and the resistive load is another system.

UFOP i completely agree, to much confusion with transformers and transformer operation.

I am very sorry you people only see this device as a contraption especially since this so called "CONTRAPTION" can change the world.

PS it only takes two pair to see OU.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

Simple stuff here.

Part G, Set N, Set S are one system, Secondary and the resistive load is another system.

MM

Even Simpler...:

Part G, Set N, Set S = Generator Exciting System

Secondaries = Generator Generating Fields (Output)




Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo, pardon me seaad,

That is simple to understand. It is your (referring not to just you Ufo) explanations of the methods which present difficulty in comprehension. Especially when such methods are based on obvious falsehoods.

But if you (again, not just Ufo) can assemble a collection of ordinary parts and do something extraordinary with the contraption, more power to you.

Regards,

bi

Hi Bistander,


Why "falsehoods"?!

Such Methods actually do not "violate" absolutely ANY of the main EM Induction Laws?

We are all "changing the magnetic field" to obtain an Induction...ok, it is a different method, because no mechanical movement is involved...so what?

If it works...it works friend...then someone else (not me) would have to respond as to why it has not been used earlier...not my job at all...which I am very glad not to be "wearing their shoes"...

As to the controversial "Part G" that MM has been disclosing and trying to explain here...yes it works...but that does NOT mean, I can not use another method, which uses my same, exact rotary switch assy and still demonstrate Figuera Induction without any Toroid Part G.

So what?...The MAIN PRINCIPLE still PREVAILS...which is based on a simple fact...moving the massless magnetic field without moving its "MASS CARRIER" understood as the Exciting Field Electromagnet in this case.

I honestly do not see absolutely ANY falsehood here at all...as all Faraday's Laws are intact here.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Terminology

My pleasure Bistander,

Listen friend, bottom line is that ALL your previous questions would be answered only if you establish an Analogy with any existing and Comparable Electric Generator.

Like I wrote before...ALL Figuera does is to MIMIC the Exciting Field Mechanical Rotation by a simple controller and small motor design, which is in charge to fluctuate currents feeding primaries by weakening and strengthening at unison to the Exciting Magnetic Field.

I have realized the Terms "Primaries" and "Secondaries"...or "Second Secondaries" tend to big time confusion since NONE of these terms APPLY to Electric Generator Vocabulary...but only utilized in Transformers.

As a matter of fact, Figuera NEVER USES ANY OF THOSE TERMS on ABSOLUTELY ANY of his Patents.

He refers to Inductor and Induced and that's all...no "Primary", no "Secondary"...much less "Second secondary"

So, I rather refer to EXCITING SYSTEM and to GENERATING SYSTEM...Which DO, relate DIRECTLY to ANY TWO PARTS Electric Generators.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Yes Ufo, that's a problem. Why don't we use normal generator terms like armature and field?

So, asking how can a secondary generate voltage without a primary stems from me knowing an armature cannot generate voltage without a field. So when MM says he has a system which works with a secondary and load but no primary, I call BS. He's obviously mistaken and the point he's trying to make (subsystem independence) is invalid. Even though there is no electrical connection between the armature and field in a generator there is still interaction via the magnetic circuit. And the interaction or influence goes both ways. Saying this isn't going to happen in the Figuera device is only wishful thinking. What I am asking MM is for some reasoning, logic, reference, or any type of support for his statements. The only thing I get from him is that Doug told him. Ufo tells me to look at the standard genetator. Yes. I understand generators very, very well. That's why I am asking these questions.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Terminology

Even Simpler...:

Part G, Set N, Set S = Generator Exciting System

Secondaries = Generator Generating Fields (Output)




Ufopolitics

Bad terminology Ufo,

So in generator language, you're saying I have an armature and I have a field. I can use either one I want without the other.

Don't think it works that way.

bi

[bistander]

Motion

I thought this was a motionless device. I just got a private message from one of the guiding leaders of this project saying that part y moves.

I don't intend to get into discussions with him outside of the public forum. So if he wishes to come forward, he can explain. Or if anybody knows how part y (secondary coil) moves, please chime in.

bi

[marathonman]

The wall

I mean sometimes talking to you is like talking to the wall. now please understand i mean NO disrespect from that but i just don't know where your head is at.
the information i sent you DOES NOT SAY THE Y MOVES in any way, shape or form. it is the magnetic field from the primaries that impart motion into the Y, ie the secondary that is what it says, PERIOD !
The primaries are located on either side of the secondary, they induce induction to the secondary, the secondary in between the primaries are connected to the load.

Part G is connected to Set N and Set S so that means that is one system, ie the exciting system.
the secondary and the load is another system, the Generating system, even thought it is located between the primaries it has no interaction with the primaries other that induction that is out side of the primary core in a space occupied by the secondary.

If you can't understand that well i just don't think i can get the point across nor do i feel the need. the problem is you have no idea of the system and that is where the confusion lies.
so that tells me you have NOT studied Figuera for any time nor took the time to understand it and are oblivious to the operation of this device

with respect,

MM

[seaad]

Quote from UFOP post #1985:" It is very simple math...you use the same Exciting Field Power (V & A) to excite several secondaries which output is connected in series...just like it is done in a typical Electric Generator."

BUT! In my test the N,S electromagnets pair are using 1.6 Watts, to maintain DC biasing.
Somebody must help me to understand how these 1.6 Watts can supply 100 pairs of N, S magnets using 1.6 W each ??
Arne

[marathonman]

Understanding

Again the problem is the understanding of the device, as this device is DC ran but someone chooses to use AC to run this device well my guess would be that no one will be able to help you especially me. not only that in some or the other patents it says 100 watts not 1.6 watts?????
at 1.6 watts i am surprised you can even detect a magnetic field.

Respectfully and good luck,

MM

[Ufopolitics]

Bad terminology Ufo,

So in generator language, you're saying I have an armature and I have a field. I can use either one I want without the other.

Don't think it works that way.

bi

Bistander,

The Exciting System of a Generator comprehends several components, that is why it is called "System"...or better for you would be "Circuit" understanding ALL Components together.

On the IMG below, which you are familiar with:

[IMG][/IMG]


Is included the whole exciting system of a self excited generator.

We are talking about Rotor Field, Stator Coils...or Exciter Static Coils, Diode Bridge and Cap...plus connecting wires and fasteners if you wanted in full.

And nope, you can not use just the rotor field without the stator Coils as they complement each others within the system...as well as if you take off even the diode bridge...or even just remove one connector leg from it, generator will not work, just because the Inducing Field would be constantly reversing polarity by an AC feed...or when disconnecting no field at all, zero...no generation of nothing.

Same way a Generator needs ALL SYSTEMS to Operate.


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Motion

I mean sometimes talking to you is like talking to the wall. now please understand i mean NO disrespect from that but i just don't know where your head is at.
the information i sent you DOES NOT SAY THE Y MOVES in any way, shape or form. it is the magnetic field from the primaries that impart motion into the Y, ie the secondary that is what it says, PERIOD !
The primaries are located on either side of the secondary, they induce induction to the secondary, the secondary in between the primaries are connected to the load.

Part G is connected to Set N and Set S so that means that is one system, ie the exciting system.
the secondary and the load is another system, the Generating system, even thought it is located between the primaries it has no interaction with the primaries other that induction that is out side of the primary core in a space occupied by the secondary.

If you can't understand that well i just don't think i can get the point across nor do i feel the need. the problem is you have no idea of the system and that is where the confusion lies.
so that tells me you have NOT studied Figuera for any time nor took the time to understand it and are oblivious to the operation of this device

with respect,

MM

become the motive force that exerts motion onto Y

The exact quote. Says to me that the force moves part Y. ie. Part Y moves. Motion.

even thought it is located between the primaries it has no interaction with the primaries other that induction

Bingo! Induction is interaction.

that is out side of the primary core in a space occupied by the secondary.

That is irrelevant.

A transformer has but one core. It has not a primary core and a secondary core. Just a transformer core. The same flux is in both.

A generator has but one core. Sure there is a rotor core and stator core, but in the generator they become a single generator core. The same flux is in both. The field core and the armature core are meaningless by themselves.

It takes both armature and field to make a generator.

It takes both a primary and a secondary to make a transformer.

Just because you cut your iron bar between the primary and secondary coils does not make it separate device cores. You have simply introduced two air gaps. The same flux is in both. Reference the nice from diagrams done by Cadman last week.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Generator

Bistander,

The Exciting System of a Generator comprehends several components, that is why it is called "System"...or better for you would be "Circuit" understanding ALL Components together.

On the IMG below, which you are familiar with:

[IMG][/IMG]


Is included the whole exciting system of a self excited generator.

We are talking about Rotor Field, Stator Coils...or Exciter Static Coils, Diode Bridge and Cap...plus connecting wires and fasteners if you wanted in full.

And nope, you can not use just the rotor field without the stator Coils as they complement each others within the system...as well as if you take off even the diode bridge...or even just remove one connector leg from it, generator will not work, just because the Inducing Field would be constantly reversing polarity by an AC feed...or when disconnecting no field at all, zero...no generation of nothing.

Same way a Generator needs ALL SYSTEMS to Operate.


Ufopolitics

Very good Ufo. Excellent example. This exciter as you call it is actually a generator which can stand on its own. It continues to function when you open circuit the mains, correct? No current on the main armature windings in the stator. So it is just the field on the rotor and the small auxillary armature coils in the stator. The only load on the armature happens to be the field coil. You could place a bulb across the cap terminals and add the light as a load. It is a functioning generator. BTW, power comes from shaft torque at the rotational speed.

Good example to make analogies.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Very good Ufo. Excellent example. This exciter as you call it is actually a generator which can stand on its own. It continues to function when you open circuit the mains, correct? No current on the main armature windings in the stator. So it is just the field on the rotor and the small auxillary armature coils in the stator. The only load on the armature happens to be the field coil. You could place a bulb across the cap terminals and add the light as a load. It is a functioning generator. BTW, power comes from shaft torque at the rotational speed.

Good example to make analogies.

bi

Great!...Now:

BTW, power comes from shaft torque at the rotational speed.

So, let's continue the Analogy...

And so BTW, My Power comes from the small little motor shaft, spinning the brush at "rotational speed"...

The Energy is self recycled within exciting system and its sustaining coil which MM calls the "Second Secondary"...


Understand?

No?...Maybe...?


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

OMG Really

QUOTE;
"become the motive force that exerts motion onto Y"

EXERTS MOTION "INTO" Y NOT Y ITSELF !
Y DOES NOT MOVE AS IT IS STATIONARY.
skimming the words will mess you up EVERY TIME. you need to start understanding what you read. i am not trying to start an argument or sounding mean or disrespectful but is this what a college education got you. i would ask for a refund Bistander. no disrespect intended sir but i think you got ripped off.



THIS DEVICE IS NOT A TRANSFORMER SO QUIT TREATING IT AS ONE.

Quote;
"that is out side of the primary core in a space occupied by the secondary." "That is irrelevant" my back side it is. that is the whole reason why the secondary does NOT INTERACT with the primary. FACT !

You need to sit down and actually read the patent as this is totally ridiculous effort on our part and i am done with this insanity.
good luck UFOP in your journey with Mr. Bistander.

MM

[bistander]

Maybe

Great!...Now:



So, let's continue the Analogy...

And so BTW, My Power comes from the small little motor shaft, spinning the brush at "rotational speed"...

The Energy is self recycled within exciting system and its sustaining coil which MM calls the "Second Secondary"...


Understand?

No?...Maybe...?


Ufopolitics

So the second secondary is like the armature winding shown in the diagram you just posted of the 'exciter'. That doesn't work without the field. His second secondary won't work without a primary.

Oh yeah, you have another PSU exciting your primaries, right?

bi