Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[marathonman]

Correct

Please don't get bent just get educated.

UFOP;

You my friend get a shiny gold star on your forehead for being absolutely correct.
Figuera's part G was completely insulated with his thick winding's embedded directly in the insulator....aka commutator bars. not only does this quote prove that but what he calls resistance is actually the winding's around the insulated iron cylinder. just like a modified variac but with DC and inductance.

QUOTE;
"The different pieces of the resistance will connect, as seen in the drawing, with the commutator bars embedded in a cylinder of insulating material that does not move; but around it, and always in contact with more than one contact, rotates a brush “O”, which carries the foreign current, revolves. One of the ends of the resistance is connected with electromagnets N, and the other with electromagnets S.

please remember the resistance box in the patent does not exist. it is just to describe the function in elementary form

so you see my friend you are the star pupil of the day.
and i see you actually study the patent not skim through it like most.

welcome to the real world of Figuera.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

Yes of course... When Figuera described in the patent a rotary commutator he was not thinking in that. He was for sure thinking in your own design with the thick wires.... For sure..... Even Figuera was wrong....

Hanon,

Please re read the 1908 Patent again...I always do it in Spanish...so there are absolutely no translation mistakes.

At absolutely ANY point through the whole Patent, Figuera calls this Cylinder "G" a Commutator.

Do not confuse the fact that he does call commutator (Actually Two Times and shown below (1) & (2)) to the way he plans to convert AC from Secondaries into DC to back-feed the whole System.

Sea “R” una resistencia que se dibuja de manera elemental Los diferentes trozos de la resistencia van a parar, como se ve con el dibujo a las delgas incrustadas en un cilindrocilindro “G” pero un conmutadorconmutador (2)

Los diferentes trozos de la resistencia van a parar, como se ve con el dibujo a las delgas incrustadas en un cilindro de materia aislante

One thing that caught my attention was the sentence quoted above...when he describes how the "Trozos de la Resistencia"...which literally translated would be "Chunks from the Resistance" which are encrusted (Spanish: Incrustadas) within cylinder G which is made of an insulated material...

And here...in my opinion...the fact that Figuera literally "brings" chunks directly from the resistance to be encrusted within Cylinder G material...don't look to me like a typical Commutator at all...and more likely to a specific cylinder where the chunks from heavy wire runs through the insulation material (inner walls) to be contacted by the rotating brush.

And the fact that he uses the word "Delga", which is more likely utilized in Spain...and relates to a Conducting Material Element where a moving contact effects or viceversa, to act as either colector or delivery, and not necessarily pertaining Only to Commutators...and more likely it is called "Colector" in Spanish to the commutator...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[hanon1492]

1.Just looking at that wave-form tells me it won't work.
The smaller 60hz pulses are just riding atop the the larger 7.5hz pulses
Which causes little effect on the current.

Echeapo,
I think you have misintepreted that picture. The frequency of the big triangular wave is about 60 hz. The smaller steps are much faster. Those steps are results of consecutive contacts in the rotary commutator, but they are riding over a 60 Hz wave. Or 50 Hz in Europe.

You are entirely correct as Figuera did not use a commutator in his 1908 patent. it just looks like it in it's elementary form but in reality the rotating brush he used made direct contact with the thick wires of his part G core in a make before break set up. similar to a variac but with slight differences and thicker wire.

MM

Yes of course... When Figuera described in the patent a rotary commutator he was not thinking in that. He was for sure thinking in your own design with the thick wires.... For sure..... Even Figuera was wrong....

[marathonman]

Correct

You are entirely correct as Figuera did not use a commutator in his 1908 patent. it just looks like it in it's elementary form but in reality the rotating brush he used made direct contact with the thick wires of his part G core in a make before break set up. similar to a variac but with slight differences and thicker wire.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

Hello UFO

For 3 reasons.

1.Just looking at that wave-form tells me it won't work.
The smaller 60hz pulses are just riding atop the the larger 7.5hz pulses
Which causes little effect on the current.

2.Not even one volt induced into the secondary.

3. The wave-form on my scope says 7.5hz

These much larger pulses occur at the beginning and end of each cycle. Being that they occur at every eighth pulse, F=60/8 = 7.5hz.
Just giving you something to think about.

With a mechanical switch which can't reverse itself, CF had to use a uniquely connected 16 position switch to get the 8 different amp. levels.
My system achieved the same by using a reversing counter, that counts
back and forth between 1 and 8 and 8 and 1.

The VA is used in ac to compensate for phase differences.

Yeah, I know...I keep using it the wrong way, maybe too lazy...but meaning Volts & Amps (V&A) percentage rating on my previous post.

The amperage level in our coils are also dependent on the coils reactance,
which goes up with frequency. Higher reactance means more volts for the
same amount of amperage.

This leads me to believe that CF used a much lower frequency because:
1. For 25hz, the switch only has to rotate at 1500 rpm not 3600.
2.The much lower reactance will give higher amps for less voltage.

Always nice to get your opinions.

Take care
Elcheapo

I also agree with you above...CF could have used a lower frequency and still obtain the required output sinewave.

Like I wrote above...the eight steps gets reduced to 4 by brush always contacting two elements...so F=60/4= 15Hertz

This fact gets more "tricky" if we go back to the way resistance is affected by brush contacting always two elements at both sides of commutator.

One last thing though...remember that outputs to N-S Primaries are based on Two Commutator Elements, and not just one...so, brush smooths even more the Resistance or Inductance output (Whichever method we use) whenever reaching from prior contact to output contact, which is based on double elements, so more On Time here.

Apparently Figuera Patent (1908) looks like a simple, typical commutator-brush circuit...but absolutely it is not.


Take care


Ufopolitics

[Elcheapo]

Hello UFO

Why would you scrap the 8 steps??!!

You mean like the original on post 972?

For 3 reasons.

1.Just looking at that wave-form tells me it won't work.
The smaller 60hz pulses are just riding atop the the larger 7.5hz pulses
Which causes little effect on the current.

2.Not even one volt induced into the secondary.

3. The wave-form on my scope says 7.5hz

These much larger pulses occur at the beginning and end of each cycle. Being that they occur at every eighth pulse, F=60/8 = 7.5hz.
Just giving you something to think about.

With a mechanical switch which can't reverse itself, CF had to use a uniquely connected 16 position switch to get the 8 different amp. levels.
My system achieved the same by using a reversing counter, that counts
back and forth between 1 and 8 and 8 and 1.

You can Not go by wattage here...Watts contains both VA, but it will not give us the Percentage Ratio of V & A.

The VA is used in ac to compensate for phase differences.


The amperage level in our coils are also dependent on the coils reactance,
which goes up with frequency. Higher reactance means more volts for the
same amount of amperage.

This leads me to believe that CF used a much lower frequency because:
1. For 25hz, the switch only has to rotate at 1500 rpm not 3600.
2.The much lower reactance will give higher amps for less voltage.

Always nice to get your opinions.

Take care
Elcheapo

[Ufopolitics]

To UFO,

I have already done the 8 step level thing. You can see the scope wave-form
I was getting at page 33, post 972 (original).
That wave-form is a 2 frequency one. The many small steps at 60hz and
the few large steps at 7.5hz.
Didnt like that so scrapped it and went to just the 2 level system.

Hello ElCheapo,

Why would you scrap the 8 steps??!!

You mean like the original on post 972?

You should work around the 50-60 Hertz total...Now the Original Signal have 8 steps up and 8 steps down for each primary, meaning a total of 16 steps...right?...so the full 60 hertz frequency should be from step 1 to step 16 range. And one small detail is that both top-bottom peaks should be double the step time...which is two elements on commutator.

I insist that just two steps will not build the strong enough field to develop properly at higher frequencies.

But then again...is your set up...so do whatever is best for you.

At one volt you;d get just 100 watts. With 12 volts....1200 watts.
I think you`ll agree that a car starter needs a strong magnetic field to operate.
Well the old 6 volt starters used about 200 amps. Or 1200 watts. The on resistance of some mosfets is only .02 ohms. My primary is about .2 ohms. So maximum current could be 59 amps.

You can Not go by wattage here...Watts contains both VA, but it will not give us the Percentage Ratio of V & A.

I will give you a Real example...I conducted some tests related to VA on a real 4400 Watts generator Exciting System...it happens to run at 175V DC, and 2.2 Amps...which is around 385 Watts...Let's round it to 400W...But note that "Percentage Ratio" between V and A...also realize the operating output voltage is 120V AC...Not 175V....Why do you think...Engineers would choose to go higher than whole system operating Voltage?

Then I would ask you...Do you think it would produce the same Required Exciting Field to output the 4400 Watts...if instead of 175V and 2.2 Amps...we would use 40 Volts and 10 Amps?

Both are same wattage...or 400 Watts...right?

This could be true, so where might I get more info on this.

Oh!...You mean Info about Repulsion Fields Induced EMF literature?

I will say go to Barnes and Noble...and ask for the Free Energy Department...then go to Magnetism by Hendrik Lorentz...He wrote almost everything about this...

Make sure they do not send you to the Science Fiction Literature...as they have the tendency to do so... whenever we ask for this department...























Just kidding man...

There is absolutely nothing about this...we are completely on our own...but hey, when I write the book about it, I surely will let you know...

UFO. I am not an electronics expert by any means. Just made my living
as a trouble-shooting technician and built most of my ham gear.

We all speculate, but I will also try not to post false info.

cheers and all the best to you

Elcheapo

Some of Us speculate...as some of Us, besides speculations and reading theories...make experiments and testings to verify them, plus construct machines continuously trying to prove concepts...small difference.

Cheers friend all the best and Merry Christmas!!


Ufopolitics

[Elcheapo]

To UFO,

Now, just Two FET's...will do High-Low switching at same time, agree...but, how about all the "Inbetween" strong contact steps required there?

Do You understand what I am trying to explain above?

I have already done the 8 step level thing. You can see the scope wave-form
I was getting at page 33, post 972 (original).
That wave-form is a 2 frequency one. The many small steps at 60hz and
the few large steps at 7.5hz.
Didnt like that so scrapped it and went to just the 2 level system.

Same way,You could have 100 amps in a Coil...and one (1) Volt...and so, no strong field would be generated there at all.

At one volt you;d get just 100 watts. With 12 volts....1200 watts.
I think you`ll agree that a car starter needs a strong magnetic field to operate.
Well the old 6 volt starters used about 200 amps. Or 1200 watts.

The on resistance of some mosfets is only .02 ohms. My primary is about
.2 ohms. So maximum current could be 59 amps.

MM already answered that

This could be true, so where might I get more info on this.

UFO. I am not an electronics expert by any means. Just made my living
as a trouble-shooting technician and built most of my ham gear.

We all speculate, but I will also try not to post false info.

cheers and all the best to you

Elcheapo

[marathonman]

Duh !

Bistander;
For someone claiming to be intelligent you sure take the cake. you take everything said and twist it to sound bad. do you EVER read any thing in depth??? choosing to hide behind that smart mouth of yours fools me not. you purposely ask idiotic questions to disrupt every thread you post on. how true this is.

camouflaging you lying with attempt to redirect and put the blame on me will not work with me. you flat out lied, got busted and refuse to accept scientific proof plain and simple. enough said.

while the two B fields with our present day measuring equipment reads zero in the space occupied by the secondary in all actuality they never cancel and are actively present. the space occupied by the secondary has two electromagnet B fields occupying the same space with the induced in same direction thus we have a duel or rather one large E field. at 100 % E field it is unlike any other generator. the spatial field is returned to 100 % in the Figuera device.

try not skimming through stuff and take the time to comprehend it's meaning.

the information is right in front of your face so if you chose not to study it that is not my problem. i am not on this forum to convince no one just share what i have learned. you are choosing to act the way you are not because of me. remaining ignorant is entirely your choice.

ps. look up the meaning of ignorant...... means not knowing and has nothing to do with insulting someone.

UFOP;

"Figuera's device...is not each Like Fields Strength...But the Resulting Common, Spatial middle pressurized Field Formed between the two."

right on the money my friend.

have a good day.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

To UFO,
Wrong.
To connect the coils like in the patent just ground one end and connect the other to the source.The Drain will go to B+.
This will be same as an emitter foiiower circuit using BJT's.
Using pnp's will require negative going pulses.

Hello ElCheapo,

Yes, you are correct, I completely forgot the Drain would be the FET's Output...its been a while I do not play with FET's...lost some practical info...my bad...

Only 2 required if you do the 8 or 2 step amperage levels using small opto-isolator switches.
I'll soon be posting a schematic circuit to clear things up.

Ok, here we keep disagreeing...look at the way a Brush-Commutator works through each switching step either Up or Down...put it with plain and simple resistors as the Power Scale Factor...and so, realize that at every Timed Step...Power is sent no matter if going lower or higher value, so, no stop there at all...no matter if signal goes up or down.

Now, just Two FET's...will do High-Low switching at same time, agree...but, how about all the "Inbetween" strong contact steps required there?

Do You understand what I am trying to explain above?

Wrong.
A fet is a linear device that once past the gate threshold (4 volts) the current output is in direct proporation to the base voltage.

Precisely...

Wrong.
Magnetic field strength is directly proportional to the current density.
With the very low "on" resistance (rds) of mosfets and using larger wire, higher current is no problem.
Unlike BJT's you can add more in parallel for more current.
Only enough volage is used to get the required amount of current. The va rating has little to do with it all. It's the current.

Also keep disagreeing above with you...and I will tell you exactly why.

Like I wrote before, I bought a switching PSU which does not raise higher V when required (operating) resistance is not present in circuit...However, PSU will do raise amps to MAX....which is 10 amps...so I tested both primaries at 4.0V and 10 amps...and let me say this here...Primaries Fields could no be any weaker at 10 amps and four (4) Volts.

The Voltage, in a Coil...is the "Driving Force"...while the Amps are the Strength Force, the "juices concentration" of high currents...and so BOTH are required to run through any coil to generate the suitable Magnetic Field.

So, here I agree that Amperage is required to get the right field strength...but, without the required driving Voltage...it just will not do.

Example: You could own a Ferrari...12 Cylinders ICE...and maybe 1000 HP in strength...great!...now, let's try to move forward at the required RPM's...but without a Transmission nor differential...will it move no matter how much you accelerate that monster engine?

Absolutely not.


Same way,You could have 100 amps in a Coil...and one (1) Volt...and so, no strong field would be generated there at all.

The patent mentions nothing of this. This is pure speculation.

MM already answered that...and it is completely true and makes no sense to drop retracting fields below loosing pressures...we must realize what is generating the Induced EMF at Figuera's device...is not each Like Fields Strength...But the Resulting Common, Spatial middle pressurized Field Formed between the two.

The system of using coils instead of resistors as Satchid posted 5 years ago.

Ok...

Yes UFO, I have read and enjoyed many of your older postings regarding motors and generators.

Thanks

This is the area in which you excel, not electronics. So I can see why you prefer to use a mechanical switch.

You are right...but not the reason why I used the mechanical rotary switch...it is just because I am replicating Figuera, as loyal as I could be...and not trying to "implement" Figuera before I even observe anything positive about it...

So please refrain from posting wrongful information that does nothing but confuse people.

I would also recommend same thing...however, people still would be confused...and even more when some of Us start showing results...

All the best to you and hope you succeed.

Elcheapo

Same here...I wish you all the best, and pure success in your set up.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Insults

I did not insult you, ...
MM

You have to be really warped to not read it so you can remain ignorant then have the AUDACITY to bad mouth people on this forum.
...
that is a direct indication as to your mental stability and stature.

... your are a real piece of work.

Proves your a liar.

MM

Warped, ignorant, audacious, mental, instable, liar, sicko.

Sounds insulting to me. You resort to this type of thing when you cannot reasonably discus the subject issues. Next you'll run and hide on the forbidden thread. Please do and finish the coils so you can demonstrate the device and prove something.

bi

[bistander]

Answers

I did not insult you, i just caught you in a bold face lye that's all. you have visited my profile page many times thus you have been blowing a lot of smoke up peoples backside for a long time and i for one don't fall for it. my profile page has all my research posted in albums but you already know that don't you. sorry you can't weasel your way out of this one.
look i could care less whether you build the Figuera device or not. just quit running your mouth towards other people that happen to be a little more informed than you are. that is very low class in my book.
you choose to remain ignorant, i do not.

this is for those that choose to remain ignorant, sorta in your face thing.





have a nice day.
MM

Thanks, but it doesn't answer my questions. In your equation, how can V2 just disappear?

His figure 8 shows how B = 0 in his example. But that is significantly different from the example and diagram which are shown next to your equations.

As the fields are varied in the primaries ( N and S electromagnets), as assumed they would in your diagram per Figuera operation, how can B = 0 in the secondary? Isn't that the whole point? To cut the secondary with flux? So how can B = 0?

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hello MM,

Would you (or anybody) please explain the math to the left of the diagram? For instance:

E = 2, Two what? 2 Volts? 2 meters? 2 of anything?

Why does B = 0? There are two (or is it 4) B's shown on the diagram. Assuming B is a magnitude of a magnetic field resulting from a primary coil (electromagnet), Ufo keeps telling us it never sees zero value.

The vector equation makes no sense. How can V2 just drop out? And what exactly do V1, V2, and B1 represent as these do no show on the diagram and are not defined?

Please answer my questions as you state these things are facts. I am just asking simple straight forward questions about the statement (diagram and equation), and I am in no way attacking or insulting you. So please respect that and not insult or ignore me.

Regards,

bistander

[marathonman]

no insults

I did not insult you, i just caught you in a bold face lie that's all. you have visited my profile page many times thus you have been blowing a lot of smoke up peoples backside for a long time and i for one don't fall for it. my profile page has all my research posted in albums but you already know that don't you. sorry you can't weasel your way out of this one.
look i could care less whether you build the Figuera device or not. just quit running your mouth towards other people that happen to be a little more informed than you are. that is very low class in my book.
you choose to remain ignorant, i do not.

this is for those that choose to remain ignorant, sorta in your face thing.





have a nice day.
MM

[bistander]

Now the insults come

I can answer your question but the real question is will you listen. that i doubt very much as you think you know everything and are better than everyone else.
You have to be really warped to not read it so you can remain ignorant then have the AUDACITY to bad mouth people on this forum.
how dare you talk trash to me or any one else for that matter in the past.
that is a direct indication as to your mental stability and stature.

read the darn thing, what are you afraid of???? that the status quo BS you have learned is completely wrong.

there is a direct correlation between Figuera and Hooper and if you read his paper you will see. all nitpicking does is show your character.

like i said earlier, good luck, you will need it.
and i suppose the last ten visitors on my profile page is lying as your name is almost at the top of the list. your are a real piece of work.



Proves your a liar.

Have a blessed day.

MM

So now the insults come. I did not "bad mouth" anyone. Show me that. And you will note that I said I did not visit your profile that I recalled. Often when I navigate this site on my small handheld device my thumb will mistakenly rub an unintend icon and I will quickly hit the back button and never know that errant destination. That is likely how my username shows on your visitor log. But I really don't care. Seems a bit paranoid to keep tabs on such a thing. I wonder why such a feature even exist. My statement was not a lie. If there is a record of the length of my visit to your profile page it would indicate just a second or two. I really had no idea I ever hit the wrong button and violated your profile space. Why do you think I'd have any interest in your profile? I deal with the messages posted and the science of the subject.

I assure you that I do not believe that I know everything. And I may in fact be better at somethings than some people, but I certainly am not better than everyone at everything or anything.

You claim that you can answer my math questions. I will listen (read carefully) your answers. Please post them.

Regards,

bi