My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[ron48]

Hi ufo my friend do not wish to intrude on your thread but wondering if this would be beneficial to your research all the best to everyone

"Magnetic Synchronicity" Using Both Sides of the Magnet - YouTube

[Ufopolitics]

Then Add 4º at Brushes.

One of the commutators on my 5-pole Goldmine motor is about 4 degrees off of where it should be. It doesn't seem like it will be too detrimental; will it?

Hello 4lpha,

There is an easy solution for that...

Just arrange the Brushes at the Off Commutator to be in Sync with contacts as the other set of brush/commutator touches the corresponding one, but then, you will have to move brush those 4º according to Motor rotation....And you will be bound to that rotation...it may not start at reversed direction.

Meaning, following rotation make sure the Pair comm element STARTS touching upper-lower brushes simultaneously (in this case will be different for both brushes line)

In a small pole arrangement, commutator being off alignment could deliver too short interactions (On Time), minimizing machine performance.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Warrensk,

Hello all,

@UFO, I made the dual pentagon 5 pole radio shack motor with ease. Timing was a bit tricky but I felt ready to try and tackle the 16 pole...Looks like ill be backing up a bit and making sure I get some extra space there along with some kind of resin or insulation so the wires dont connect with the laminates.

Thanks for the help, Ill post if I come into any more problems...

Warrensk

Hello Warrensk,

Unfortunately the Dual Pentagon Design does NOT follow the same Spiral Pattern that is more common here...it applies to multiples of Five...10, 20, etc...
But making that Model will not get you familiar with the Spiral Winding, which is completely different Concept.

Related to Upper sharp edges at rotor core, cutting the wires...you could lay more High Temp Epoxy resin...or use the same pole pattern cut a bit bigger, so edges bent downwards , in a piece of High Temp fiber insulation paper...and adding them at top and bottom of rotor.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

It should...

Tried to test when I was tired, late, absentmindedly wired my motor gen face-to-face with a full strength 12v system, wiring all gen outputs in series to look at the retrocharge of the same battery, loads the prime mover up a lot. I was so careful before, monitoring the PM under 8v as it climbed thru 130degF. But just focused on a voltmeter for a few seconds and didn't even have my temp gauge in hand, or watching the motor at all. DOH! but then heard the rpm falter and then the glow and smoke. couldn't get the wires off fast enough. over 150 degF. Well couple coils shot. Don't test when you are tired!

Dual pentagon Y wiring here I come on that model now!!

@Ufo, I used the 28ga RS red wire before, had 2-3 ohms per coil pair and used about 13' per coil pair. I intend to stay with the 28ga. Will I still be able to fit the same amount of wire with this style? It had to pack it on the conventional asym winding before.

Hello Sampojo,

Sorry about your accident...

I believe it should fit...now the trick on the "Y" Pattern or Dual Pentagons, is to pack pretty well towards the shaft all the South Coils...then do the Norths also packing them. Remember they have to be balanced out by wire length, since their North-South cores to be wrapped are very different area...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hey Ron

Hi ufo my friend do not wish to intrude on your thread but wondering if this would be beneficial to your research all the best to everyone

"Magnetic Synchronicity" Using Both Sides of the Magnet - YouTube

Hello Ron48,

You do not "intrude" anytime here my friend...by all means do it, you are very welcomed!

About video, great Info, and yes, we only use ALL this Machines at 50% of their Magnetic Potential...that is absolutely right!

We are wasting the opposed poles at every single wound or permanent magnet stator...


Regards


Ufopolitcs

[sampojo]

Pentagon wiring & some longer range plans

From post 4010

Hello Sampojo,

I believe it should fit...now the trick on the "Y" Pattern or Dual Pentagons, is to pack pretty well towards the shaft all the South Coils...then do the Norths also packing them. Remember they have to be balanced out by wire length, since their North-South cores to be wrapped are very different area...

Ufopolitics

Hi Ufo,

Then it sounds like when I wind a half coil S. pole, I will leave about 6' of wire behind loose, Go to the next south half coil, leave that strand. repeat until all S. poles wound then, commence with the loose wires to wind the north half. If a correct depiction, is it a good idea to wind the loose ends up on a small spool of sorts, or can you keep the loose ends loose? Or is it best to stabilize the rotor and just wind the wire without rotating the rotor?

So on this motor, a plus hot input must be demarcated clearly in order to keep a south pole south, no free reversing of connections without concern, as their may be some efficiency lost?

If I interpret your post 1466, this is one of the better windings for power and rpm. An you said something magical happens with it. Well I am very interested in this wiring, as my next step up, my motors are 10 poles. If you have a rotor with a multiple of 5, maybe this is one of the better windings for a PM?

I am getting around to a slow read of the entire thread. And the same for the my-motors-got-me thread. So I gather Machine and John Stone have been hammering out some final versions of that radiant energy PWM, if that is a proper conception. So I must rebuild my lab power supply and break out the breadboards!

@JohnStone, wow on that last circuit. Prerelease Monster Driver V5 post 3902. Mass production anyone?

Planning a generator build myself. Ufo, in your post #1384, you state that "elongated" rotors are best. So my double rotor replication is the kind of thing I think you mean then, so I will do the same on my 10 pole motors. I have seen a wiring diagram once and am still digging and will find it again. Coils are split into 4 and staggered more across poles. When I get there again I may have a question or two Very interested in applying the the 8-brush Bosch design too. If I can just find new brush holders, I get the max out of the hardware on hand...

It seems Turion, prochiro, and derfinitely machinealive (and of course Mr. Ufo) are building asym generators. Just trying to get a handle on who else I can pester besides Ufo

I have a business acquaintance who wants to produce an assembly of these components as a home power unit and then lease them out to people. Long way to go, no? They can run their power meter backwards to the tune of a monthly payment, and then have insurance on a grid outage. Kind of a concern since Hurricane Sandy went through. That would be great.

If I could only stay awake 24 hours a day...

Ufo, thanks for everything you are doing. It wasn't until this thread I understood how to duplicate any motor winding propose wherever I looked, let alone the circuitry.

[Donald Haas]

16 pole, 2 brushes.

Hi All,

I've been learning how to etch circuits and will have good success soon.

I took the JStone circuit mirror to laser copier.

The ink was not quite "strong" enough to function completely with 2 oz copper etching.

I have a new lazor printer coming tomorrow, so we'll get it right.

My big question is about two tread mill motors that I have aquired.

2.65hp, 1.5hp continuous duty.

16pole arm and 2 brush setup.

I just need to be sure how to wind it.

I see the 16pole 4 brush diagram, but must ask about 2 brush (per end) setup.

Has anyone done a 16pole 2 brush asym mod?


Can I wind it the same as the 4 brush setup and just use the two brushes centered perpendicular to the 2 mags??


I've stripped one arm so far and it looks like, with a little machine work that there is room on the shaft to put both comm's in the original case.

We'll see.

Keepin' on.

bro d

[sampojo]

Printed circuit board

Hi Don,

Interesting skill interesting product. Hope you sell those things here.

[iankoglin]

Hedges for the 956 motor

G'Day UFO and those that are winding the p56 motor

I had saved all the relevant posts for the p56 motor then my computer bommed so I have lost most of my files.
The search engine on EF is almost useless as I search for hedges and it can't seem to find it I have been searching through the posts several times and I just can't find where UFO stated what hedges to use for the P56 armature.

If someone has that knowledge at hand I would appreciate it.
Kindest regards

[IndianaBoys]

G'Day UFO and those that are winding the p56 motor

I had saved all the relevant posts for the p56 motor then my computer bommed so I have lost most of my files.
The search engine on EF is almost useless as I search for hedges and it can't seem to find it I have been searching through the posts several times and I just can't find where UFO stated what hedges to use for the P56 armature.

If someone has that knowledge at hand I would appreciate it.
Kindest regards

IanKoglin,

These are only 2 posts found in UfoPolitics threads using the word "hedge".

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines-7.html#post201778

One thing I wanted to say, is to use the hedges dedicated for this purposes when finished winding your Baby...this motors achieve speeds beyond manufacturer spec's, and we are super packing wires on this machines...so adding the hedge-retainers between poles avoids wire to pop out and mess your great work...I pack wire first with wood-plastics knife-look alike but rounded, not sharp...then slide hedge and pull it with very fine needle nose pliers...just being careful not to scratch the enamel in wire...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines-63.html#post208709

It will work, AS LONG AS you are not allowing any wires to stick out to the Air Gap area...meaning, that will be in the in-between steel rotating area...and could get stripped, cut, tangled...can you run a Hedge to hold wires between each Pole "T" Like this>>> T^T ?
And another question...Are you tightening this wires strong enough?
Are you pressing wires to pack them tight, with a wood-plastic knife or even a paint stirrer stick of round edges?
If you are not to any of the above...you should start again doing it...and will see you will get much more room, and maybe even 15 turns per coil...(Honestly, I will feel much better if you could do all that)

IndianaBoys

[iankoglin]

IanKoglin,

These are only 2 posts found in UfoPolitics threads using the word "hedge".

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines-7.html#post201778

One thing I wanted to say, is to use the hedges dedicated for this purposes when finished winding your Baby...this motors achieve speeds beyond manufacturer spec's, and we are super packing wires on this machines...so adding the hedge-retainers between poles avoids wire to pop out and mess your great work...I pack wire first with wood-plastics knife-look alike but rounded, not sharp...then slide hedge and pull it with very fine needle nose pliers...just being careful not to scratch the enamel in wire...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines-63.html#post208709

It will work, AS LONG AS you are not allowing any wires to stick out to the Air Gap area...meaning, that will be in the in-between steel rotating area...and could get stripped, cut, tangled...can you run a Hedge to hold wires between each Pole "T" Like this>>> T^T ?
And another question...Are you tightening this wires strong enough?
Are you pressing wires to pack them tight, with a wood-plastic knife or even a paint stirrer stick of round edges?
If you are not to any of the above...you should start again doing it...and will see you will get much more room, and maybe even 15 turns per coil...(Honestly, I will feel much better if you could do all that)

IndianaBoys

G'Day IndianBoys
Thanks for the info But I was sure UFO explained what size the hedges were.
Perhaps It was on his videos I will keep searching

Kindest Regards


Just keeping looking

[Ufopolitics]

Magnetic Layers...

From post 4010



Hi Ufo,

Then it sounds like when I wind a half coil S. pole, I will leave about 6' of wire behind loose, Go to the next south half coil, leave that strand. repeat until all S. poles wound then, commence with the loose wires to wind the north half. If a correct depiction, is it a good idea to wind the loose ends up on a small spool of sorts, or can you keep the loose ends loose? Or is it best to stabilize the rotor and just wind the wire without rotating the rotor?

So on this motor, a plus hot input must be demarcated clearly in order to keep a south pole south, no free reversing of connections without concern, as their may be some efficiency lost?

Hello Sampojo,

Yes, that is correct, in the post where I give all info on making this type of winding, I specify to have ready Five spools of wire...having all those wires loose I do NOT recommend...they can tangle...and become a terrible nightmare...

Every time you wind ANY of this Motors, You MUST have already decided which would be your Positive Hot Input, I recommend to use the connecting shaft side as a guide...it is shown on my Imperial Asymmetric Video Part 1.

In this Design, You do all South Coils first, a "Primary South Magnetic Layer", where you do all with same exact spec's...same turns, same shape, and trying to push it and press it as much towards the shaft as you could...number your Coils on the rotor poles...S1,S2,S3,S4,S5...as also label the spools...after finished with S5, then start N1 exactly located at 180º from S1, but Norths will grab Two Poles.

If I interpret your post 1466, this is one of the better windings for power and rpm. An you said something magical happens with it. Well I am very interested in this wiring, as my next step up, my motors are 10 poles. If you have a rotor with a multiple of 5, maybe this is one of the better windings for a PM?

I like the Pentagon Design, it is a very Robust Machine, Your Outputs will be great, and when combined with PWM they perform even better, Now figure out your Magnetic "Y" Pattern, where the smaller lower end would be South and the Upper "V" will comprehend your Norths...this is completely "relative" as you could do it reversed...meaning North all inner layers...and South Outer Layers...

Below I have shown a better way to Time this Configuration, for a very strong and fast Machine:

[IMG][/IMG]

Now related to bigger number of Poles Machines, like a Ten or a Twenty Poles, I have not test yet which will be better...If a P10, P20 (Spiral Design) or a Quad Pentagon Design...so can not tell you...

I am getting around to a slow read of the entire thread. And the same for the my-motors-got-me thread. So I gather Machine and John Stone have been hammering out some final versions of that radiant energy PWM, if that is a proper conception. So I must rebuild my lab power supply and break out the breadboards!

@JohnStone, wow on that last circuit. Prerelease Monster Driver V5 post 3902. Mass production anyone?

Planning a generator build myself. Ufo, in your post #1384, you state that "elongated" rotors are best. So my double rotor replication is the kind of thing I think you mean then, so I will do the same on my 10 pole motors. I have seen a wiring diagram once and am still digging and will find it again. Coils are split into 4 and staggered more across poles. When I get there again I may have a question or two Very interested in applying the the 8-brush Bosch design too. If I can just find new brush holders, I get the max out of the hardware on hand...

It seems Turion, prochiro, and derfinitely machinealive (and of course Mr. Ufo) are building asym generators. Just trying to get a handle on who else I can pester besides Ufo

Maybe the Chinese will start a Massive Production of the John Stone Monster Driver...

Yes definitively an Elongated Rotor-Stator will deliver much more power output as a Generator side, while as Motor it will also have more strength. So, yes, we get "both Worlds"...

I have a business acquaintance who wants to produce an assembly of these components as a home power unit and then lease them out to people. Long way to go, no? They can run their power meter backwards to the tune of a monthly payment, and then have insurance on a grid outage. Kind of a concern since Hurricane Sandy went through. That would be great.

Good idea...but please, do not get too greedy and abuse of your knowledge and the Energy Crisis to Restrict this Technology only to the ones who could afford it...it is meant to be Free...so, show them to the must people you could...how to build them...and get the great joy of doing so...

It will be awesome to completely disconnect from the Grid Slavery...with this Technology, once Energy will be harvested in each Home, all the Big Powers that make a living based on Exploding the People...will start to Collapse big time, starting by the Oil Cartels.

If I could only stay awake 24 hours a day...

I have tried...trust me...we can not...

Ufo, thanks for everything you are doing. It wasn't until this thread I understood how to duplicate any motor winding propose wherever I looked, let alone the circuitry.

My pleasure Sampojo.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Wedges...

G'Day IndianBoys
Thanks for the info But I was sure UFO explained what size the hedges were.
Perhaps It was on his videos I will keep searching

Kindest Regards


Just keeping looking

Hello there Ian!

Sorry about My Misspelled Word ...it is WEDGE...and NOT "HEDGE"...please pardon Me...

Ok, the Wedges I have used are made by FABRICO/EIS/DUPONT ...

All The Numbers on Box areWGEDMD20-16-11
and 101344421
It is a DACRON/MYLAR/DACRON (DMD) WEDGE
CLASS F

What I did was to "walk in" the EIS place...and I brought a piece that I took off from Motor when I unwound it...

It is a square or channeled Wedge, Ian, and many manufacturers make this products...I have tried locating my numbers in EIS, but they already switch to new manufacturers...so part number do not match anymore...

Insulation Film - Paper From EIS Serves Electric Motor Repair Work

Wedges | Electrowind

Now the Spec's are defined by Width and "Leg" which is Depth, they are Channel "U" Shaped...

My Wedges Legs or Depth is 4 mm, and Width is 5 mm

[IMG][/IMG]


Machine Alive could tell You what He used as Wedge...maybe He have a Manufacturer that is suitable for your side of the World...


Regards My Dear Friend and good luck in your search!


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great Donald!

Hi All,

I've been learning how to etch circuits and will have good success soon.

I took the JStone circuit mirror to laser copier.

The ink was not quite "strong" enough to function completely with 2 oz copper etching.

I have a new lazor printer coming tomorrow, so we'll get it right.

Hello Donald!

That's great!...You are making that beautiful electronic design very professionally!

My big question is about two tread mill motors that I have acquired.

2.65hp, 1.5hp continuous duty.

16pole arm and 2 brush setup.

I just need to be sure how to wind it.

I see the 16pole 4 brush diagram, but must ask about 2 brush (per end) setup.

Has anyone done a 16pole 2 brush asym mod?


Can I wind it the same as the 4 brush setup and just use the two brushes centered perpendicular to the 2 mags??


I've stripped one arm so far and it looks like, with a little machine work that there is room on the shaft to put both comm's in the original case.

We'll see.

Keepin' on.

bro d

Ok, Donald, I do not know if you noticed the change in Design I had to make for Lester444 in his 12 pole four stator, four brush adapt...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

And nope, it will not just work out quite that simple...you must realize the size of your two stators related to only grabbing four poles per coil in the Pair at your rotor.

If you note I have wrapped Four Poles per Coil (8 in Pair) in the Two Stators Design , BUT 12 is divisible by Three, (Quadrant divided by Three here) meaning, I can share a Pair of Eight Poles and leave Four Poles at the opposite side...In order that the opposite firing Pair to P2 on graphic, or Pair (P10) shares only one pole above one below...That can NOT be done with 16 poles.

The Four Stators/Four Brush divides the Quadrant exactly in Four sections of Four Poles (4X4=16)

You have Quadrant divided by Two only (or Four N/A here)...or (8X2=16)...not much choices...

Different deal here, is like adapting an Eight Cylinder Crank Shaft to a Six Cylinder Block...I do not know at this point if it could be done...and I do not have the time now to go and CAD it...but it must be checked for possible re design.

If you have a way to get this Machine with 4 Stator 4 brush system, besides running much stronger than a P16 with 2 Stators...as it will be a faster done deal.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Ian
I got some hedges from the local motor repair place and also they gave me a large flat sheet of the stuff before I left. After having to re-bend a few and cut them down, I realized that it was faster to just use the flat stuff and cut them as I needed. I feel that it worked well and still have enough for two more motors of any size from that one flat sheet.
Dana