My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[prochiro]

Machine
Seven will work and I guess when you are done, we will know if eight would have worked also. I use a tongue depressor to push wires down. First pressing far right then left and finish with turning the stick crosswise in a 'X' pattern until it stays down. Good luck and remember that ten pounds pull on that wire is not too much. That is the feel of hanging a full ten pound wire spool with one wire and holding it up in one hand.
Dana

[Lightworker1]

Thanks Dana for ideas.

Warmest regards
light

[Lightworker1]

Thanks UFO for the next concept in development towards IMPERIAL-MECALTE self-runner.
The R&D is really warming up now.

Also there was email from me to your gmail.com

Warmest regards
light

[john_g]

Hi All/UFO

Can anyone help? What is the correct way to use the generator output from the motor? Sorry for the basic question, I know a few of us are
not quite sure. From one of UFOs early videos, the positive from the generator tab was connected to the negative tab of the motor, also with the battery negative. The voltage reading was taken from that tab to the motor input positive- so should I use that output to a battery or whats the best way to wire it?

Here's my latest build using a Johnson motor and my own generator. 8 x gen heads, 160ohm each with seperate FWBR, total volts out approx 90volts. Rotor is the Bedini motor rotor which has 3 small neos magnets and 3 weights.

Just need to sort a PWM and control ctt for cap dump from generator.

[Ufopolitics]

Generator...Connections

Hi All/UFO

Can anyone help? What is the correct way to use the generator output from the motor? Sorry for the basic question, I know a few of us are
not quite sure. From one of UFOs early videos, the positive from the generator tab was connected to the negative tab of the motor, also with the battery negative. The voltage reading was taken from that tab to the motor input positive- so should I use that output to a battery or whats the best way to wire it?

Here's my latest build using a Johnson motor and my own generator. 8 x gen heads, 160ohm each with seperate FWBR, total volts out approx 90volts. Rotor is the Bedini motor rotor which has 3 small neos magnets and 3 weights.

Just need to sort a PWM and control ctt for cap dump from generator.

Hello John_G,

You got it somehow right...here is a picture:

[IMG][/IMG]

What you are reading there is Total Armature Current-Voltage or (Ev)
Meaning, reading your Battery Input and Your Generator Output, both flows are within rotor.

NOW, Realize this Diagram is for Radio Shack Motor...which has Diagonal Input (Crossed) as also Diagonal Generator output..

Hope it helped you.


Regards and Good Testing!



Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

...
-I want it ALL (1) and (2)...
(...

Well, then let's decompose "ALL" in order to make it digestable.

Power sources:
- Usual DC PSUs are built for quite accurate voltages, low ripple, low radiation ...... properties we do not require urgently.
i.e. Mean Well SPV-1500 or RSP-3000 - quite expensive €450 ... €700
- 100A and at same time 48V = 4.8KW is quite oversized. We calculate input power in the range of abot 1..1.5KW.
- Having those properties and at same time controllable from 12v .... 56V is quite rare to get
- PSUs of less accurate basis are i.e. inverter welders and induction cooking fields but all need to be modified somehow and contain lethal voltages! More suggestions available?

Regulation:
- We can regulate for constant rpm or constant output voltage.
- In order to perform regualtion we need to controll the PSUs in wide range.

Switch mode PSUs:
The principle of any switch mode PSU is to charge an inductor during a certain time in order to get chunks of energy being handy. The reaction of that inductor will spite out its magentic charge while converting volt/amps. The regulations is performed by the magnitude and repetition frequency of those chunks.
If we look at our motors we have that inductor already available. Thus it will not be necessary to convert the input power in a regulated manor with the goal to chop this voltage again in order to feed the motors.

Suggestion:
Given we search just now not for a ultimate solution being suitable for volume production but a viable approach - maybe jolting but useful.

Battery feed:
What about using a battery stack of i.e. 48V and feeding the energy via a PWM pulser to the motor? By controlling the pulse width we can control the amount of energy the motor gets. We do not care for regulated voltage or amps but for i.e. rpm control. Any suitable V and A condition will be observable.
We discussed pulsers in extent so everybody can build such a "pet" for his own use.
We need to add an automatic PWM control being available as Arduino micro board. Everybody can load a program provided (USB) and use this cheap board like a ready built component.

Even normal DC welders can be used as source to the pulser - given we understand that the welding amperage is not available at 30V but far lower. Anyway the pulser will account for that behaviour and regulate as required the pulse witdth at motor input.

Mains feed:
Given we expect the generator to provide mains voltage and frequency we easily can convert it into DC by rectification along a cap added at output. Calculate nominal mains voltage multiplied by square root of 2 (1.4141) in order to get the max DC voltage.

This idea presented is for example only and shall not be applied by non professionals!

Now we have the problem of volt/amp conversion. Again we imagine to have a pulser fitting for those voltages. Same procedure: PWM but shorter pulses like before in order to fit the energy requriements of the prime mover.


This circuit demonstrates the principle only. It was not elaborated for replication!

My contribution shall not be understood as solution ready to serve but as basis for discussion on how to approach.
It will be essential to agree for definite building stones along their interconnections in order to get a step by step approach.
JStone

[prochiro]

@ John_G
WOW John, a blast from the past. Setup looks good and if you can run diagonal, you may get twice the speed as it looks as if you are only running on one side. If the wire correction does work, your voltage will also go up a lot. Also consider fine tuning the stator air core coil for better run as well as AC caps if you have not already done so, like Netaca. (Spelling?)
Dana

[prochiro]

John Stone
What you say about that little arduino is so true. A simple program will handle any power changes we need for start-up and generator load necessities by reading any values we need as input and adjusting pulse output to match our needs. It truly is that simple. As you say, the only rough part is handling higher IC 's or fets to do there job and stay cool. The arduino can also handle all the voltage switching as in battery or gen power thru relays in a as needed or timed basis. I made a simple program to increase motor voltage thru duty cycle when I hold the motor shaft hard and reading amps as input, duty is increased as needed.
Dana

[john_g]

Hi UFO, happy New Year

Sorry, I'm being dumb here, too much wine during Christmas perhaps!

Normal motor running is 500ma @ 12v (just using motor + and -).

Wiring up as #1 and #2 I get 22.7v on the volt meter, however if I attach to a battery the motor stalls/stops, or if I touch wires together motor stops. Attached to a cap the amps goes to 1000ma, and motor stops cap drains.

Wiring as #3 will charge battery -ok.

#4 using a diode inline to the cap amp draw is 600ma rather than 1000ma, and cap charges up - ok.

So #3 and #4 seem to be best for recovery - or have I missed the whole point?

[Ufopolitics]

Hi UFO, happy New Year

Sorry, I'm being dumb here, too much wine during Christmas perhaps!

Normal motor running is 500ma @ 12v (just using motor + and -).

Wiring up as #1 and #2 I get 22.7v on the volt meter, however if I attach to a battery the motor stalls/stops, or if I touch wires together motor stops. Attached to a cap the amps goes to 1000ma, and motor stops cap drains.

Wiring as #3 will charge battery -ok.

#4 using a diode inline to the cap amp draw is 600ma rather than 1000ma, and cap charges up - ok.

So #3 and #4 seem to be best for recovery - or have I missed the whole point?

Hello John_G,

Yes you've got it right...Now on three (3) without diode, Motor should run faster...then drain a bit battery at right...correct?

That is what I call (Parallel Input Connection)...and you could use same battery...

Now take a look at this...diagram below...as also you could play some with your set up...a
And No, I did not make a mistake by connecting those two diodes at output...they go just like that...

In Your Output Negative...is where your Radiant Energy is...you should see HER by connecting a Neon at low pulses of oscillator...Purple Plasma beauty......Also SHE will spark with a Motor Ground Chassis...even though...all coils are insulated from ground...

And that is the reason why it will charge your Batteries...and more...will crystallize them (reconditioning) like John Bedini has explained before.

[IMG][/IMG]

Note: On number Two (2) it will not work, because you are connecting a Witch on that side of Motor Head......So that "Power Out" must always be protected by diodes to be usable...


Regards



Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Awesome John Stone!

Well, then let's decompose "ALL" in order to make it digestable.

Power sources:
- Usual DC PSUs are built for quite accurate voltages, low ripple, low radiation ...... properties we do not require urgently.
i.e. Mean Well SPV-1500 or RSP-3000 - quite expensive €450 ... €700
- 100A and at same time 48V = 4.8KW is quite oversized. We calculate input power in the range of abot 1..1.5KW.
- Having those properties and at same time controllable from 12v .... 56V is quite rare to get
- PSUs of less accurate basis are i.e. inverter welders and induction cooking fields but all need to be modified somehow and contain lethal voltages! More suggestions available?

Regulation:
- We can regulate for constant rpm or constant output voltage.
- In order to perform regualtion we need to controll the PSUs in wide range.

Switch mode PSUs:
The principle of any switch mode PSU is to charge an inductor during a certain time in order to get chunks of energy being handy. The reaction of that inductor will spite out its magentic charge while converting volt/amps. The regulations is performed by the magnitude and repetition frequency of those chunks.
If we look at our motors we have that inductor already available. Thus it will not be necessary to convert the input power in a regulated manor with the goal to chop this voltage again in order to feed the motors.

Suggestion:
Given we search just now not for a ultimate solution being suitable for volume production but a viable approach - maybe jolting but useful.

Battery feed:
What about using a battery stack of i.e. 48V and feeding the energy via a PWM pulser to the motor? By controlling the pulse width we can control the amount of energy the motor gets. We do not care for regulated voltage or amps but for i.e. rpm control. Any suitable V and A condition will be observable.
We discussed pulsers in extent so everybody can build such a "pet" for his own use.
We need to add an automatic PWM control being available as Arduino micro board. Everybody can load a program provided (USB) and use this cheap board like a ready built component.

Even normal DC welders can be used as source to the pulser - given we understand that the welding amperage is not available at 30V but far lower. Anyway the pulser will account for that behaviour and regulate as required the pulse witdth at motor input.

Mains feed:
Given we expect the generator to provide mains voltage and frequency we easily can convert it into DC by rectification along a cap added at output. Calculate nominal mains voltage multiplied by square root of 2 (1.4141) in order to get the max DC voltage.

This idea presented is for example only and shall not be applied by non professionals!

Now we have the problem of volt/amp conversion. Again we imagine to have a pulser fitting for those voltages. Same procedure: PWM but shorter pulses like before in order to fit the energy requriements of the prime mover.


This circuit demonstrates the principle only. It was not elaborated for replication!

My contribution shall not be understood as solution ready to serve but as basis for discussion on how to approach.
It will be essential to agree for definite building stones along their interconnections in order to get a step by step approach.
JStone

Hello John Stone,

John....You are simply awesome...

I see exactly what you mean...now, please allow me to spark even more that concept...

Remember -at least- we have Two Independent Coils in action in our Motor (Two at Input, P1 & P15 for example)...so, think about the Switching SEPIC (Single Ended Primary Inductance Converter)...process...and let's apply those Two Inductors...to Two of our Motor Coils...per pulse...

Figure something like...

[IMG][/IMG]

Now here it is based on using Input and Output Coils...BUT, We could also Isolate P1-P15 and also use them in this concept...leaving along Output...for higher gain as also generating back.

However, the "Tempo" of Inductors Timing is on a Push-Pull design...meaning one off the other On...alternative shiftings...so we will have to use it according to achieve a best suitable speed time related to the "Spiral of Life"...or, our windings design...

There are other Two more Converters that work based on the Two Inductor Principle...The CÚK and the ZETA...However I have tried the Cúk and since it renders opposite outputs...it did not worked for me...and the ZETA is a sophisticated version of the SEPIC...So I stayed with the SEPIC Topology.


We are getting there John...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

@UFO:
You mentioned SEPIC earlyier. Now you cought me! SMPS is not my speciality. Maybe there are some professionals out there watching and willing to share.

Anyway we have to account for:

• iron core will possibly not be suitable for the PWM frequencies we intend to use
• The capacitor needs to be low ESR and heavy duty and double voltage.

We can try to use a battery of caps in order to cope with those very high currents. Usually SEPIC technology is used for lower power PSUs. An advantage is the FET being GND based like our pulsers.
Maybe we can introduce SEPIC as additional improvement. Just now it is at limit of my technical imagination. I will ponder on it.

I imagine for first steps:

• pulser stage itself (as discussed before) including proper driving
• rpm sensor for feeding into Arduino (optically / hall sensor / taking the signal form gen winding and passing it via opto)
• voltage sensing (average prime mover input / gen output) being galvanically separated (opto along TK431) for feeding input into Arduino
• Ardunio itself including control program, LCD, manual controls

You are right - we approach!

@ALL: don't be afraight on so much technology - we will make it simple for you ALL!
JohnS

[Lester444]

Hello UFO,

I'm trying to understand the relationship between angular velocity (rpm-wise) relative to pulse width and pulse frequency. I hope you don't mind my questions:

1. I assume that as the rpm goes up, the frequency of the pulses (from the FET) should go up also; is this a correct assumption for your machine?

2. Can you please shed more light on the "timing" relationship with regards to the pulse (one single pulse) and the commutator (one winding pair)?
I mean the synchronization of the VOLTAGE pulse (rising edge & falling edge, the turning-on and turning-off of the FET) relative to the brushes' positions on the commutator.

3. As to the SEPIC topology, can you please tell us the timing (phase relationship) of L1 relative to L2? From what I understand L1 and L2 are on different rotor poles and so can not be regarded as being on the same core (timing-wise) as in your drawing. L1 & L2 are independent coils as you have pointed out and so perhaps should be presented (drawn) independently also.

It seems to me that some sort of timing actuator (optical encoder, hall-effect gear-tooth sensor, etc.) is mandatory at this time. I don't suppose you simply want to "fire away" with fixed pulses and hope it hits the mark, right?


@ JohnStone,

What do you think of the configuration shown below? It makes use of the parasitic diode in the FET. (I'm trying to get rid of the FWBR)
(Edit: I don't think it will work because the motor requires DC voltage )

Thanks!

Lester444

[prochiro]

120V 600A motor control (homemade)

UFO/JohnS @All

This is a video of a homemade motor controller out of scrap parts.
This video is about a completely homemade high voltage high amperage DC motor controller, the controller can perform at voltages above 120v and 600A, on this video is a first test run where the controller was tested at high voltage, the next test will be a performance and load test in the electric car car.
Homebuild DC motor controller - YouTube

Enjoy
Dana

[Donald Haas]

Nice 10 pole motors

Hi All,

I ordered 2 of the $18.95 motors found at this link and also the $14.95 motors might be good also for a 1st build.

Dual shaft means that one will not have shaft length issues when modifying.

Surplus Center

Surplus Center has plenty on hand and have been good business wise for me

in the past.

bro d

Hi All,
I received the motors and found them to be 10 pole motors with the brushes perpendicular to the mags

The brush end caps are bolted through the body so I can lengthen the body and buy longer bolts and it should be a fine starting place.

My only question is What kind of glue do I want to reglue the mags?

The add copy for these motors says 1/6hp, so should get interesting.


Thanks

bro d