My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[prochiro]

Two Generators

Hi UFO,
A friend gave me two portable generators that have minor gas engine problems because we were talking about motors. He works at a rental place. Both generators are about the same size ( 4KW and 4.3KW) and look vary large compaired to what we have been working on. One has 24 stator poles(using 20) and the other has 36 stator poles (using all). Both have at least two rotor coils but I think one may have four rotor coils. Now my question is this, Should I put then back together and fix the engins or can they or parts of them be used in future builds? Eather way I cant lose.
Dana

[Gints]

My first post and report...

Hi, Ufopolitics! Hello, All!

This is my first post here. I found your thread after I was interested in Lindemann rotary attraction concept and motors. Info about radiant energy come to me mostly from Tesla, Bedini and Bearden works, writings and videos and trying/doing experiments.
I am not so familiar with motors and hardware, so all this staff takes some time to study also. I am learning things by doing things...
I believe, that your work, discoveries and machines are very valuable findings to turn the humanity to the progress. Therefore I would like to take part in this great game and share the info what I have.
Here will be some info about stages where I am with the asymmetric motor:
- I use the 12V motors 12P/12C/2B/2S from BMW ventilation system, 2pcs., very easy to modify and long shaft. Also they have place for additional commutator - to mount them without any specific mechanical adjustment. I rewind them according your 12P-12C asymmetric Torqmaster schematic. Wire size as original 18awg, 12 pair of coils with 6 turns of each coil;
- The result was that following - motor was working very well, but....comparing to original one...resistance problem...motor heated up very quickly...so I can not do any measurements with this type of rotor and windings...also there are not space for more coil windings on rotor;
- As next I will left the existing rotor to try with pulsing...I will wait couple of days for delivery of pulse modulator (Power Pulse Modulator - OCXI)
- I am going to use another rotor to wind according to your Star of David diagram..then I can wind more turns on rotor elements...
- I think next week I will arrange some measurements to share.

Here will be some pictures attached:

[Ufopolitics]

Nice Motors and Welcome!!

Hi, Ufopolitics! Hello, All!

This is my first post here. I found your thread after I was interested in Lindemann rotary attraction concept and motors. Info about radiant energy come to me mostly from Tesla, Bedini and Bearden works, writings and videos and trying/doing experiments.
I am not so familiar with motors and hardware, so all this staff takes some time to study also. I am learning things by doing things...
I believe, that your work, discoveries and machines are very valuable findings to turn the humanity to the progress. Therefore I would like to take part in this great game and share the info what I have.
Here will be some info about stages where I am with the asymmetric motor:
- I use the 12V motors 12P/12C/2B/2S from BMW ventilation system, 2pcs., very easy to modify and long shaft. Also they have place for additional commutator - to mount them without any specific mechanical adjustment. I rewind them according your 12P-12C asymmetric Torqmaster schematic. Wire size as original 18awg, 12 pair of coils with 6 turns of each coil;
- The result was that following - motor was working very well, but....comparing to original one...resistance problem...motor heated up very quickly...so I can not do any measurements with this type of rotor and windings...also there are not space for more coil windings on rotor;
- As next I will left the existing rotor to try with pulsing...I will wait couple of days for delivery of pulse modulator (Power Pulse Modulator - OCXI)
- I am going to use another rotor to wind according to your Star of David diagram..then I can wind more turns on rotor elements...
- I think next week I will arrange some measurements to share.

Here will be some pictures attached:

Hello Gints!!


Wow!, nice and here!!


Those are very well built Motors...well they are German...excellent builders!

Now, why don't you use smaller gauge awg...like a 23-24?...then you could wind more turns per coils-pairs...Six(6) turns per coil on 18 awg, for an asymmetrical machine, is too low resistance...a Symmetrical can "afford" it because they are in series...with half of total in your two brush motors.

Be careful running that low resistance Motor with your new oscillator!!...you could blow its Mosfet's in nano seconds!!...try the "Safe Zone" of One (1) ohm per coil...

Another "solution" but I consider it a "patch"... will be to add some 4.1 or 3.9 K Ohms Resistors, at JUST ONE commutator, between all elements...Typically, I always use the Negative Input side Commutator.
And the Total Output, when you jump that resistor side terminals, it will add more Voltage to Total output (Positive Source-Negative from Output side)


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Gints]

Thank you for your comment. I will rewind rotor with 23-24 awg wire...

[Ufopolitics]

That's great Dana!!

Hi UFO,
A friend gave me two portable generators that have minor gas engine problems because we were talking about motors. He works at a rental place. Both generators are about the same size ( 4KW and 4.3KW) and look vary large compaired to what we have been working on. One has 24 stator poles(using 20) and the other has 36 stator poles (using all). Both have at least two rotor coils but I think one may have four rotor coils. Now my question is this, Should I put then back together and fix the engins or can they or parts of them be used in future builds? Eather way I cant lose.
Dana

Hello Dana!!


Wow...You guys are so lucky!!...I have many friends looking after some Generators to convert for me...

I mean, the last small one I am working on...I had to cut off the crank shaft end where it couples to female on Generator and use it for my Pulley Generator shaft...so the Gas Engine I was very Happy to cut, take it apart and destroy...
But that was a small one I had...I also have a bigger one...but am waiting for Hurricane Season to end...so I can tear it apart...Oh Yes, definitively I will!!

AC Generators are great for conversions...but is a whole different "scenario" than Motors...since most of them have rotating Linear Fed Stators through continuous slip rings brushes...and the Generating Fields are Static...and wrapped very Symmetrically...but there is a lot of room to work there...

So, if your Generators end shafts are female coupled...and you want to keep your gas engines...then you will have to lathe a nice steel shaft that will fit there...and sometimes they use the Gas engine front Bearing shared with Generator...So, I had to get a new front bearing...and Mig Weld an Aluminum plate to the bearing housing I lathed...it came out awesome...I have not re-wound the Generating Fields yet...as it lost the factory Magnetism on Lamination's of Stator Core...so I added a couple of permanent magnets...and I rewound the stator coil with a Bifilar one...as I am planning to "Fuse" a Prime-Moving Circuit there...still working on CAD...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[MasterBlaster]

Thank you for your comment. I will rewind rotor with 23-24 awg wire...

@UFO, please confirm. In an earlier post you said the laminated cores must be straight along the shaft. Gints motors won't work if I re-call correctly.

[Ufopolitics]

Hey MasterBlaster..

@UFO, please confirm. In an earlier post you said the laminated cores must be straight along the shaft. Gints motors won't work if I re-call correctly.

Hello MasterBlaster,

Ok, I believe you are referring to the "light twist" at the lamination's at rotor core design?
Ok, that is not a problem dear, wires will still be vertical...that small angled deviation related to shaft is not important to consider.

Manufacturers do that to enhance magnetic field for uni-directional rotation designed motors...that twist creates like a Vortex Pattern that benefits rotation.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great Turion...

UFO,

I spent a lot of time in the last couple days reading and rereading the things you have said on this thread, and discussing it with Luther. I hope you will forgive me, but I think I have been approaching this with a wrong understanding.

I believe what you have been trying to get through my head is that my motor, when modified is not anything like my old motor and should not really be compared to it. It is a motor that has now been set free to run at high speed and draw high amps, because it CAN, and can turn those amps into speed and power. So it produces high rpm's and high torque that the old motor was not CAPABLE of producing. The old motor was limited by Ce, so was limitied by its structure to pulling the amount of amps it pulled at the voltage it was supplied. The new motor does not HAVE these same limits. I should be celebrating this rather than complaining that it draws more amps.

But that the way you control the amp draw is with a pulsed width modulation system....the kind of system you started talking about in your first posts on this forum.

And the final component is the generator attached to the motor.

So there are three components, and I really WON'T know whether there is something amazing here until I have built all three and combined them into a working unit. So that is what I am going to do. I am going to quit trying to test everything, build what you tell me to build the way you tell me to build it, and see how it turns out. I have invested enough time in this that a few more days or even a few weeks is not that much more to wait to see results.

Thanks again for your time and patience. If any of what I just said is incorrect, I'm sure you will point it out to me.

Dave

Hello Dave,


Ok...the only thing wrong in your whole post...is that you wrote "Ce"...and it is "Ec"...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Amp Draw...Part 1 (Symmetrical Motor)

Hello to All,

A brief review dedicated to "Amp Draw"...(as also Voltage) related to Symmetrical and Asymmetrical Machines...

As you all know Watts=(V)X(I), or Volts Times Amps...


So let's Review first:

SYMMETRICAL MOTORS ENERGY DRAW

Any Symmetric Motor without mechanical load applied to (Idle) will show low Amps. However, as we apply a Load it will start increasing its Amperage...and Lowering its "Effective" Voltage or "Armature Power" since Ec (C EMF) magnifies, grows as we slow down RPM...Now, Peter Lindemann example on his video Electric Motor Secrets is awesome :

Motor at Idle:

12.1 Volts 1.1 Amps 2235 RPM

Motor Under Load

12.1 Volts 7.0 Amps 1864 RPM

Input Voltage @ 1864 RPM=10 Volts
Back EMF @ 1864 RPM= 9.0 Volts

EFFECTIVE VOLTAGE RUNNING OUR MOTOR UNDER LOAD TEST:

Applied Voltage=12.1 Volts
-Back EMF Voltage= 9.0 Volts
_________________________
Effective Voltage = 3.1 Volts

So we get a "price to pay" to make that motor work (under load) @ 1864 RPM

We got an Increase on Amps from 1.1 Amps to 7.0 Amps
We get an Increase of Ec (C EMF) or the WITCH to -9.0 Volts

Now what will be our Symmetrical Motor Total Power Output in Watts here, if we all know Watts=V X I ?

Will it be 12.1 X 7.0 ?
Will it be 9.0 X 7.0 ?

Nope...none of them...

It will be Total Effective Voltage X I (Amperage under load)

Effective Voltage= Ea (Total Source Fed) subtracted Ec (Or The WITCH, the FALSE C EMF)...what do we get?
Effective Voltage= 12.1-9.0=3.1V

So we will have 3.1V X 7.0A= 21.7 WATTS

That is the Output Power of that Motor...21.7 Watts

What was the Total Power Applied originally in Watts?
Well, as Peter Lindemann nicely explained...the Battery He used was a 12.0 V 7.0 Amps (As is also stated in Total Power Applied)

So we applied 84.7 Watts (12.1 X 7.0 ) in total to Motor...and we get out 21.7 Watts...

But let's "round" numbers here...
We could say We apply 85.0 Watts and got "USABLE" 22.0 Watts in Mechanical Energy Conversion or "Fair Trade"?

How much have We lost here?

Well so simple Math...84.7-21.7=63 Watts...we lost...not much Uh?


To be Continued...

Regards

Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Turion

ctually, I had a feeling it would come down to this, and I feel you are Correct. When ont takes a tv set and guts it to put in a vcr, how can anyone compare the two. You can take all the numbers you want and they will never make sence in a scientific basis. I believe that the whole intent of our motors is to deliver the most torque at the least input as we can get. The equal in torque to our motors in semitric would be larger and in fact, take
more amps to deliver same torque. The pressure to PRUVE by current SCIENTIFIC METHODS is like trying to MEASURE RADIENT ENERGY. This motor thing is but but one part of a system that when all put togeather,allows us to cross into a new ability. I say that you eather believe that this is the way to go or get out and buy some gas. By the way, it is over $4.00 US today. We know what our needed parts must each do, so lets get the thing togeather and see if we can turn on the lights. This whole thing makes about as much sence as having to prove a starter motor is the best befor we can say we have the best auto. There are some,I am sure that will have something to say about what I said but down on the farm, we just take whatever we have and put it together to get the job done. After all, I thought that the intent of this whole thing was to show people in all parts of the world with different parts available, using their common sence, to build themselves out of a power bill or get some power in the first place. Do you think BOB cares one bit what the numbers are, he just wants to have a light on in his house this winter after dark. If we waited for science to do tell us if something was good to eat, we all would not be here. Lets get the system togeather, then see if it is enough, if not, build bigger. Lets get-er-done.
We have so many options here and with the genious of UFO we will all have the power we need. There, I said what I meant to say. If you think proof is needed, I say that would be a plus, but I am going to finish what I started first. Sorry UFO,
Dana

P.S. Watch out for bumbs in spelling.

[Ufopolitics]

Intermezzo

Now...I will just render One Video in this Intermezzo ...from a great Member that we have been working together since My First Thread here...His Name is NETICA.
(And, Netica, please let me borrow your nice video to show it here for all to enjoy... )

Ufopolitics Project Replication with DC brushed motor. by netica. Video 2 - YouTube


Now so you all have "An Idea" what we are dealing here...I will explain...Netica is just using My Coil Set Up (And an AIR CORE Coil)...oscillating it with my Arrangement...and Two Diodes from Coil are feeding that Symmetrical Motor...nothing more...no changes to Motor...just ran by My Radiant Energy Source from Coil, regulated by two Diodes...Pulsed by my simple 555 timer...

Now, something "not explainable" by "Your Classic Physics" happens here...No Matter how much Netica tries to press with two pieces of wood against shaft, almost bringing it to a stop!!...Amperage will NOT increase even a decimal count...but decreases !!??

Now, if we go back to Peter Lindemann Calculations...what is the "Typical, Normal" behavior of any Symmetrical Motor when "Under Load"?

Well , only a "small drop" of 371 RPM (2235-1864), will create an increase from 1.1 Amps at Idle...to 7.0 Amps (which is exactly the total Max Amps from battery )


This is just so you have an idea...of the "difference"...


Thanks a million Netica, excellent video!!


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

A Plan Comes Togeather

NETICA and UFO,
You two hard working gents have put it togeather now for all to see. It is both a small system and a large system. Small as to its size and output when relating to most of our goals, Large because it is the first total system ( minus the generator) that all can see the results working the way it should. Netica, you have set the wheels of time in motion and with the guidence of UFO, the pair of you have caught up and solved a 132 year loss. Words can not say how each one of us feel when seeing that film. Now all can see what we were doing and that does not need proof of a toy motor to see.
Dana

[machinealive]

thanks ufo,


I think I will cut out a 3 and a 5 pole with the 6 " dia. pieces, I will video everything that I do.

Someone asked about my oscillator on the other thread. It was the circuit John Stone posted. I am getting parts tomorrow for oscillators. I will video the build step by step, with tests at each stage, if you want.

The only reason I was going to build a big 5 pole, is because I managed to get the 5 pole r/s motor going, and I really do not have a lot of experience winding motors. If it ain't broke....

I do have a 16 pole that i found today. I went back through the posts but did not find the 16 pole schem. At least not laid out enough for someone with my poor motor winding skills.

I was going to try making 4 comm segments, and 4 groups of arms, but I'm really not sure.

Ufo, would it be possible for you to post or re-post a 16 pole with 2 brushes per comm.

Thanks again

[Vincevl]

Wire Size etc.

Hello Vincevl,

Last night I was watching your video, however could not completed because an outage here...

I see you got'em and test'em in great detail, awesome!
Are they three or five poles?
What are your plans?...Are you gonna make two Mods and test them as Motor Generators assembled?
Or just one Mod to test it against original spec's?
Now here is a small test-measurement for you to make...

On the motor to be stripped, before doing it, get armature out..and calculate a close to Half of their coils...(it should have two brushes...), then cut the wires at each extreme of the half section...clean the enamel from wire and measure resistance of those half armature series connected coils....then measure other side and compare them...they must be somewhere very close.
This will give you an approximate of how much resistance you will need in your Mod, at Input terminals read out...meaning, if you have a Three Pole, then each coil should read that same resistance value.

Now a Three pole I know it is difficult to "divide in half"...so all you do is measure each independent coil and just divide one in half and add it to one value...So you will have the 1 1/2 perfect measurement. So your Mod Single Coil will be 1 1/2 of One original one...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO,

Thanks for the tip! The motor is a 5 pole design. Each coil was 51 turns and 2.2 Ohms. The resistance at the half way point was 3.4 Ohms. The wire gauge is 28 (0.0125"). My questions are what gauge of wire should I use and when you say "your Mod Single Coil will be 1 1/2 of One original one" do you mean "coil pair" (P1,P3 + P1,P4 = 3.4 Ohms)?

I have more motors on order so I can make a second mod. motor.

Cheers,
Vince

[Sanskara316]

Hey Sanskara,

Yes dear, it is possible...check my Star of David...it is a 12 Pole with just Three Pair of Coils...where I join commutator elements by groups of four...since we get three terminals upper and three lower for the 3 pairs.

[IMG][/IMG]

However, you do have to make some how the gaps between commutator element groups wider, by filing them...or charges will arc and pity the elements...and fill them with high epoxy...

Did you see my P12 Design?...that is a robust machine!!...take a look at it.


[IMG][/IMG]



Regards Dear


Ufopolitics

Thanks for the info UFO, First I need to put it in my head understand read read understand, then I'll try it out. Thanks again, I'm looking for parts for the oscillator, will start building the circuit. thanks