My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Bob Smith]

Advice for Lengthening Shaft

Turion,
You mentioned you were using the shaft from your second (parts) motor to incorporate into your modded motor (to extend its shaft). I'm working on motors 2 (3 pole) and 3 (5 pole) now, and would like to do the same.

If I have 2 shafts butted up against one another inside the rotor, will this affect the electrical properties of the machine if they are not touching? (e.g., if they are say, a few thou apart...)

Any pointers from anyone appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

Update:
I tapped the shaft half-way out and tapped another half-way in, and of course, the armature split between laminations where the two shafts meet. I guess I answered my own question. So... I'm going to see if I can get a longer piece of drill rod (or equivalent diameter rod) to take the place of the shaft. Suggestions still welcome

[IndianaBoys]

Ewizard,

Good idea.

Also available are Phidgets:

1048_0 - PhidgetTemperatureSensor 4-Input
Phidgets Inc. - 1048_0 - PhidgetTemperatureSensor 4-Input

Products for USB Sensing and Control
1046_0 - PhidgetBridge 4-Input
Phidgets Inc. - 1046_0 - PhidgetBridge 4-Input

Lots of possibilities.

IndianaBoys

[i_ron]

Sorry my progress has been slow but lots of things keeping me busy lately. I did finally get the two motors apart and have a question for anyone familiar with the white gunk in the picture. I'm still an electric motor dunce so I don't know if that's some kind of epoxy or other sealer. Any suggestions for getting it off? I've got the usual tools and such -- hammer, chisels, dremel, propane torch, boiling water just not sure what might work best and do the least damage. It does not look like plain epoxy and as it is a bit rougher in texture but it might be epoxy mixed with something. Easy is my favorite way

]

It is some type of epoxy. These are the factory balancing weights.
If you do not plan on saving the wire just pry it off with a screw driver or something

Ron P

[DadHav]

Double Shaft

Turion,
You mentioned you were using the shaft from your second (parts) motor to incorporate into your modded motor (to extend its shaft). I'm working on motors 2 (3 pole) and 3 (5 pole) now, and would like to do the same.

If I have 2 shafts butted up against one another inside the rotor, will this affect the electrical properties of the machine if they are not touching? (e.g., if they are say, a few thou apart...)

Any pointers from anyone appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

It might have been mentioned before but there might be a few things to think about. Examine the two shafts, there's likely to be some marks on the shaft from the press fit. Choose an installation that allows an undamaged area of the shaft to run in the bushings. You may have to polish any marks before assembly but you can try the bushing over the shaft and clean it up if necessary. Also your shaft extension will be to long. You can take the opportunity to cut to the length you need before final assembly. It's not a good idea to leave it longer than you need. If you install any kind of adapter on the motor you should keep it close to the motor because of the high speed. Avoid possible shaft or bushing damage from something out of balance.
Just a suggestion
John H

[pmazz850]

It might have been mentioned before but there might be a few things to think about. Examine the two shafts, there's likely to be some marks on the shaft from the press fit. Choose an installation that allows an undamaged area of the shaft to run in the bushings. You may have to polish any marks before assembly but you can try the bushing over the shaft and clean it up if necessary. Also your shaft extension will be to long. You can take the opportunity to cut to the length you need before final assembly. It's not a good idea to leave it longer than you need. If you install any kind of adapter on the motor you should keep it close to the motor because of the high speed. Avoid possible shaft or bushing damage from something out of balance.
Just a suggestion
John H

Maybe I'm wrong here, but if you use two shafts that meet somewhere in the middle of the core, isn't there a chance that while running, the core can split the laminations and come apart? When I pressed out the shaft of my second motor to get the commutator off, one of the end laminations came off. I would be concerned with the core splitting at high rpm, but I guess for a little motor and seeing how the wire should hold it together, it should be ok. I wouldn't attempt that with a large motor! Just a thought...

[Ufopolitics]

Completely right again Pmazz...

Maybe I'm wrong here, but if you use two shafts that meet somewhere in the middle of the core, isn't there a chance that while running, the core can split the laminations and come apart? When I pressed out the shaft of my second motor to get the commutator off, one of the end laminations came off. I would be concerned with the core splitting at high rpm, but I guess for a little motor and seeing how the wire should hold it together, it should be ok. I wouldn't attempt that with a large motor! Just a thought...

Hello Pmazz and All,

The "solution" of using two shafts at center leaves you completely on the "Thin Epoxy Resin Insulation" as the only structural support of your Motor...Yes, if you guys apply any kind of force to any of its ends....it will split right inside armature...However, IF the wires are very tight...it may "hold" but flimsy... taking motor out of alignment between commutators...they will displace from each others...

Like you just said Pmazz...

I saw the conversation prior and then I saw your comment...


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[codeboundfuture]

glu-i-uth

Hey everyone,

Little messy looking because of the hot glue but it runs great.

3 - Pole, 26 awg bifilar, and a pair of 1/4x1/2 N52 neos. Hopefully it doesn't vibrate itself to pieces before I get my next motor built. Little trouble with the commutator starting position like was talked about but it's getting a lot better the more I run it, one of the commutators is keeping a brush from making contact by keeping it elevated. I damaged it while trying to make sure the commutator sections didn't short to the case when I lost one of the teflon washers... oops. At least the toothpick magnet supports are holding strong.

Despite it's shoddy construction, and slightly uneven commutators on one end, it really does run well, and starts most of the time now, just a tap is all it needs if it fails on it's own. If it ever ends up in an RC, I'll just be sure to always park it on a hill.



peace,
matt

[prochiro]

Thank You

Hi All UFO Farmhand and DadHav

I want to say this once and then we will all not talk about it again.

First to Farmhand: I apologize to you in the view of all to see. When in the thick of a tough time and with UFO leaving, something that we all would suffer loss from, I was angry and not realizing it at the time, stepped over a line that I now see should not have been crossed. I am sorry for that. Please forgive me.

To UFO

How can I say thankyou enough to express how I feel. Thank You sooooo much. Your thread has been the best thing for me since the birth of my children. Thank You.

To all and Aaron

Thankyou Bob and all for what you have done to get this resolved. I owe everyone one big hug. Now with this behind me, I want to say that all of you are like family to me, yes Farmhand and DadHav also. I will continue to remember this in the future and will strive to work for the good of all mankind. I just want to learn and get this thing done for all of us and the rest of mankind for all of time.

Case Closed
Dana

[Bob Smith]

Armature Split With Combined Shafts

Hello Pmazz and All,
The "solution" of using two shafts at center leaves you completely on the "Thin Epoxy Resin Insulation" as the only structural support of your Motor...Yes, if you guys apply any kind of force to any of its ends....it will split right inside armature...However, IF the wires are very tight...it may "hold" but flimsy... taking motor out of alignment between commutators...they will displace from each others...

Thanks for your comments, Dadhav, Pmazz and UFO. Yes, that's exactly what happened. The laminations split apart where the shafts meet. I got shafted, man I should be able to tap the shaft back into the good armature (I hope). At least it wasn't my good 5 pole motor. Thanks for the tip, Dadhav, about the smooth shaft and bushings.
Regards to all,
Bob

PS: Dana - It is joyous news that you are back!

[DadHav]

wire

Thanks for your comments, Dadhav, Pmazz and UFO. Yes, that's exactly what happened. The laminations split apart where the shafts meet. I got shafted, man I should be able to tap the shaft back into the good armature (I hope). At least it wasn't my good 5 pole motor. Thanks for the tip, Dadhav, about the smooth shaft and bushings.
Regards to all,
Bob

PS: Dana - It is joyous news that you are back!

Yes, good to hear about Dana. Bob or UFO / anybody. Since the little motor will be a popular build. Can't we find a shaft material. I would think Hobby Shop landing gear wire or something should be appropriate if it's the right size. It's nice to have enough shaft sticking out to make use of a flywheel or some sort of adapter.
John H

[Ufopolitics]

Dana I am very glad you are back here with Us all!!

Hi All UFO Farmhand and DadHav

I want to say this once and then we will all not talk about it again.

First to Farmhand: I apologize to you in the view of all to see. When in the thick of a tough time and with UFO leaving, something that we all would suffer loss from, I was angry and not realizing it at the time, stepped over a line that I now see should not have been crossed. I am sorry for that. Please forgive me.

To UFO

How can I say thankyou enough to express how I feel. Thank You sooooo much. Your thread has been the best thing for me since the birth of my children. Thank You.

To all and Aaron

Thankyou Bob and all for what you have done to get this resolved. I owe everyone one big hug. Now with this behind me, I want to say that all of you are like family to me, yes Farmhand and DadHav also. I will continue to remember this in the future and will strive to work for the good of all mankind. I just want to learn and get this thing done for all of us and the rest of mankind for all of time.

Case Closed
Dana

Hello Dana!!

I am very glad that you are back with Us!!
You have been a very solid friend since "day one" from my other Thread...along with Bob French...You guys were the First to come Up with the Coil Testing excellent and "beyond expectations" results...
As the same time you have been here, very helpful with many others kind of lost...as also showing them all the right ways to go through.

So it is great that everything is over!!
You have to catch up all time away...

So now... let's get back to work!!...





Warm regards!


UFO

[Ufopolitics]

A Proposed "Solution-Patch" for Dual Axle Assemblies

Hello to All,

I have kind of a solution, even though is still a "Patch"...

First you will need a pretty high watts solder Iron Gun.

So the thing to do... is to cut some small groove-channels on Center exterior of Motor Poles, that could be done easy with a Dremel Tool and the Carbide cutting Discs...Try to make all grooves-channels, as Equal as possible, and you could go pretty deep, since being right at center, so there is enough steel there...
Now,the "ideal Piece" would be a Lamination of Copper of around 3-4 mm deep, to be pressed in.

Or you could get some thick copper wire, like 18 or 16 gauge, clean the enamel off, cut it to fit groove tight, and press it. then solder it pole by pole with the Iron gun, melting some solder...not too much... now, in order to prevent for epoxy insulation to be burnt, get some cold water rag and wrap the other side of Armature with it...

Now the finer the point of Gun, the better (the ones like a fine flat screwdriver) in order to apply heat, just at wire-groove area...

Other Materials could be used that would be handy, like steel wire...but that will require more heat to fuse solder with plates...

For lazy guys...could also just apply Solder Pole by Pole, to a "not too deep" groove, cooling off as you solder poles one by one...

Iron Gun should be from 40-75 Watts...and of course the higher Watts needs less time to melt solder to steel lamination's.

Good luck


Regards


UFO

[prochiro]

RS Shaft?

Does someone have a piece of music wire with 3/32 inch dia. It may be tight but for the short length required may work if it will fit into the bearings and turn OK? I do not have that size here and do not know if it is too flexable but if you think it would work Hobby-Lobby does (K+S506). Its worth at least a quick check if you have some.
Dana

[ampsvolts]

Fiberglass housing motor

Amazing
To be clear about these concepts -( I know enough about electronice to get into trouble..)
A couple of questions please.. (anyone..)

Does the coil around the fibre glass case relate in any way to the secondary coil in the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy " thread?

Can a PWM such as that sold in the following link be used for these motors
Oatley Electronics

and UFO.. approximately what watts would be produced if the output from the f/glass demo video was put through an inverter for household use.

Cheers and thanks
AV

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Ampsvolts

Amazing
To be clear about these concepts -( I know enough about electronice to get into trouble..)
A couple of questions please.. (anyone..)

Does the coil around the fibre glass case relate in any way to the secondary coil in the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy " thread?

Can a PWM such as that sold in the following link be used for these motors
Oatley Electronics

and UFO.. approximately what watts would be produced if the output from the f/glass demo video was put through an inverter for household use.

Cheers and thanks
AV

Hello Ampsvolts,

Now...

Does the coil around the fibre glass case relate in any way to the secondary coil in the "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy " thread?

Dear, it relates to ANY Single Coil in the World will do that Effect, the Thread shows the same effects in any coil that is pulsed then Diode-Controlled Out to Load...even on Secondaries Isolated and Non Isolated.
Fiber Stator demonstrates that "Any Single Coil" that You Pulse with that Pattern I have designed, besides creating same Effect (Output an HV to a Load) it also rotates a Motor Armature...Physics says..."It can NOT Do that...because it needs the Ferrite, the "Massive" steel lamination's Embodiments as Transformers also requires to create the required Magnetic Fields in order to perform their functions...

know what?...A LIE.

And Dear Ampsvolts...That Stator, as I have "titled" on my video, is just a "Sophisticated Inductor" ...or an Inductor with a "Fancy Wrap Style and Core"...
But the main point on Model is to show some BIG LIE also We all have been taught...that "An Inductor does Not Reverses its Magnetic Polarity when Pulse drops to zero, also called Magnetic Field Collapse...However, they DO "admit" it reverses V, or "swings to the opposite V"..did you know this?
Physics says..."Magnetic Field Collapses as pulse drops to zero, then Inductor "tends" to keep current constant...that is why it reverses voltage.."
And that is the main principle that DC-DC and AC/DC new age (switching converters-supplies) work...

That was also...ANOTHER LIE

I have proven right on Video...all in one "shot"..

If Inductor will not reverse Its magnetic polarity...that armature would have NEVER turn ONE SINGLE DEGREE...but it would have Vibrated only...

If Inductor will just swings V polarity to keep I constant, they are saying it is not a "Real Potential change" but just a "Momentary Lapse of Reversal of Potential (V)"
If it would be "so"...then those Five CFL's will NEVER be lighting Up like they DO...

That particular Model shown there is not to be powering High Loads...please, it is a small little motor... it was just made to prove all the above stated.


Regards


UFO