My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

All North Rs

Right on guys!

I have been checking in steadily, good to see you guys making some progress....Ive got a RS 5 pole...The homopolar idea looks promising...As faradays homopolar generator supposedly was capable of a self sustaining current with modifications by tesla...This played some important parts in his turbine idea as well...

Anyways, I will do a RS 5 pole replication and compare it to the pentagon winding which I have laying around somewhere...Ive also got a 20 pole 1000W MY1020 motor still chillen. This new design looks promising...Can't wait to test it out!

@UFO

So this new homopolar design has "groups" of coils instead of pairs....? Is this wound the same way as the pairs except both windings are same direction? When I do the RS replication I suppose I will answer a lot of my own questions...

warrensk

Hello Warrensk, great to see you back!!

I made this short video...good luck seeing it..terrible quality on "New You Tube"..

Edit: All errors on You Tube were due to Navigator Errors...no problem with video, no sound on this video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RSs2beN...ient=mv-google

just to see the 3D CAD Animated Camera around Whole Coil/Core...it is quite different from previous Typical P5...



Plus All Coils are CW...


Regards



Ufopolitics

[shylo]

Hello Shylo, good work friend!

Now, it worries me you keep calling this Two INDEPENDENT GROUPS ..."Pairs"...?...I hope you are not connecting them in series between each other


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO, I did connect the 2 groups in series, actually wound them .
Also To Everybody, I made a mistake , there are only 4 coils per group ,so 20 turns per group 40 for group pair.
If the coils of 1 group are 180 deg. opposite the coils of #2 group in a 4 pole stator they are both in identical positions.
So I don't understand your concern....Does only 1 group get fired at a time?
Like I said I'm not even sure I'm doing this right.
Sorry about the mistake folks, I don't know what I was thinking.
artv

[Ufopolitics]

Groups and Pairs differences

Hi UFO, I did connect the 2 groups in series, actually wound them .

Hello Shylo,

I figured that...not good...each Group is INDEPENDENT from each others.

Before We did Pairs, which were Two Coils projecting a North and a South adjacent to each others...

Now, in larger poles machines ( not Three, Not Five) we are using Groups that are ALL WOUND CW, meaning all same magnetic Polarity.

Also To Everybody, I made a mistake , there are only 4 coils per group ,so 20 turns per group 40 for group pair.

You need to do better than that, meaning MORE Than Five Turns per Coil, then measure resistance per Group...and you must be over 0.7 ohms...more likely 0.9 to 1.0 ohm.

What gauge wire (awg) are You using?

If the coils of 1 group are 180 deg. opposite the coils of #2 group in a 4 pole stator they are both in identical positions.

"Both Groups in Identical positions"?...One Group is interacting with Two Stators at , say left side...while other Group is Interacting with OTHER TWO Stators at right side...while both Groups are projecting South towards the center shaft area...

I really do not see any "identical" properties between these two Groups...

So I don't understand your concern....Does only 1 group get fired at a time?

Your 18 Pole Rotor MUST HAVE 18 Groups Total...Continuously wound, One after the other...overlapping each Group with the next...sharing common Coils except ONE (One ahead) Each Group must go to two commutator elements above and below...so the next one...BUT NOT TWO, NOT FOUR GROUPS ONLY!!...then of course you are gonna have lock ups...and all kind of weird responses...because Rotor is NOT running with FULL Groups wound/connected...so its Motoring Force is smaller/weaker than the Self Induced or CEMF Forces...then it tends to lock...

Like I said I'm not even sure I'm doing this right.
Sorry about the mistake folks, I don't know what I was thinking.
artv

It's Ok...You will "get it" right...


Reagards and let Us know, please!


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Kogs Nessie's update

G'day All
I am having a bit of trouble with my controller it is the Oscillator the one I am was using had a 50K ohms pot everything went OK
Now I want to use this controller with either UFO's or J Stone's monster to run the Modded 1000w Chinese motor the Magura twist throttle is a 5Kohms Pot and I modified my oscillator by changing the two 1k ohms resistors to each leg of the pot to 100 ohms and the 2 caps from 0.01uf to 0.001uf and it works OK until it just stops I change the 555 chip and it immediately seems to blow I check with a special chip tester and it shows OK I try again it wont work I put a new 555 chip in it wont work I made a new Oscillator it has the same problem

Garry from Chemelec said that the 555chip can not work with 100 ohms here I need to increase the ohms to 330 or 450 ohms but the duty cycle will not be 1 to 99%
I need an oscillator that does not use a 555 chip one with a 5K input OR
a twist throttle that is 50K ohms of which I have not been able to find one

Please can anyone here help me

Kindest regards

[sampojo]

NS vs. NN 5-Pole comparison

So I thought I would do a side by side comparison of the 2 windings:



Extrapolating to a 20-pole Dual Stator machine like my Baldor by combining the technique of the Bosch, a coil group would contain 12 poles, since there are 3 poles out of 5 in the RS style armature, times 4 for a 20-pole?

So Ufo, how's this look for my Baldor? (EDIT: OOPS, engaging 13 poles in the group. Move everything over one pole and throw out the last odd single sub-coil!!! AND no crossing of sub coils, must be like the Bosch with a gap between sub groups?) EDIT: Fixed! Winding looks complex operation. Same number of wraps on each sub-coil?


EDIT: Diagram INCORRECT, pole counts wrong on several sub groups!

I am not sure if I can read the imperial and Bosch diagrams quite right, but the video definitely has the comm segments lined up with the poles (as opposed to the pole-holes )

My connector commutator design needs the wire to come in across the shaft a bit. I think this winding has barely enough of an angle of attack on the side with the green dot. Maybe just take out a half wind and come across the shaft that way.

So my baldor used 19ga. Did I read recommendations to use 25' of wire per group for the imperial? Ufo, it seems you may be leaning toward holding the line toward the heavier gauges now as opposed to going to a higher gauge with the N-S style? I am thinking about the same length for the baldor might work, so just use whatever gauge gets me to 1 ohm per group? I sorely want to use my quad-filar, going for every advantage... I think it will have about .7 ohm resistance per 25', maybe get a little more length since its nominal diam. is around a 21ga.

Progress on my commutator: 13 connectors installed on last comm, 7 remaining components have been manufactured. should be a matter of hours to install them, then ready to wind. ( that is in hours of free time, which I wont have any now for days, just some on the weekend.)
EDIT: 4 more to install.

[marxist]

armature field constantly present?

Hi shylo,
I hope it is not partly my fault that you wired the two opposing coil-groups in your 4-stator motor in series. I jumped to (wrong) conclusions and expressed them in a previous posting. Sorry, in case this influenced you.
Now I know better.

Hi ufo,
according to my current understanding, coil-group G2 will get energized - in the newly rewound 5-pole RS motor - before group G1 gets disconnected, due to overlap between brushes and commutator-elements. Then G3 will come ON before G2 gets disconnected and so forth.
This means that the armature-field (the field created by the rotor-coils) remains constantly "in place" without ever collapsing.

Is that important?

If this is important, then using pulse duration to regulate the power of such motors may be problematic, because the field may collapse in between pulses (during OFF-time).
It may be a better option to regulate such motors by regulating the applied voltage.
!?

Well, just thinking aloud and hoping not to offend or confuse anybody.

[Ufopolitics]

Excellent Post!

Hi ufo,

according to my current understanding, coil-group G2 will get energized - in the newly rewound 5-pole RS motor - before group G1 gets disconnected, due to overlap between brushes and commutator-elements. Then G3 will come ON before G2 gets disconnected and so forth.
This means that the armature-field (the field created by the rotor-coils) remains constantly "in place" without ever collapsing.

Is that important?

at certain period only...while the other timing is dedicated to full element-brush contact...this also happened with previous winding type...so, it is not only applicable here.

There is a way to shorten the contact times...and that is to move/rotate more one set of brushes relative to the other on top or bottom, wherever...achieving a more precise timing, after a "basic" one has been obtained...understand?

[IMG][/IMG]

The Diagram above I used it to correct some probable causes of malfunction...however, look at Left Diagram...and that is what am referring to, on my above comment...shortening the time of energizing by miss alignment between upper-lower brushes...I did it with both models I will present on video soon...

If this is important, then using pulse duration to regulate the power of such motors may be problematic, because the field may collapse in between pulses (during OFF-time).
It may be a better option to regulate such motors by regulating the applied voltage.
!?

Well, just thinking aloud and hoping not to offend or confuse anybody.

That is correct...however, we could play with physical and pulses timing until they sync...

Nope you are not confusing anybody...it is good to have this type of analysis, discussion ...


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Wrong Groups Distribution...

So I thought I would do a side by side comparison of the 2 windings:



Extrapolating to a 20-pole Dual Stator machine like my Baldor by combining the technique of the Bosch, a coil group would contain 12 poles, since there are 3 poles out of 5 in the RS style armature, times 4 for a 20-pole?

So Ufo, how's this look for my Baldor? (EDIT: OOPS, engaging 13 poles in the group. Move everything over one pole and throw out the last odd single sub-coil!!! AND no crossing of sub coils, must be like the Bosch with a gap between sub groups?) EDIT: Fixed! Winding looks complex operation. Same number of wraps on each sub-coil?




I am not sure if I can read the imperial and Bosch diagrams quite right, but the video definitely has the comm segments lined up with the poles (as opposed to the pole-holes )

My connector commutator design needs the wire to come in across the shaft a bit. I think this winding has barely enough of an angle of attack on the side with the green dot. Maybe just take out a half wind and come across the shaft that way.

So my baldor used 19ga. Did I read recommendations to use 25' of wire per group for the imperial? Ufo, it seems you may be leaning toward holding the line toward the heavier gauges now as opposed to going to a higher gauge with the N-S style? I am thinking about the same length for the baldor might work, so just use whatever gauge gets me to 1 ohm per group? I sorely want to use my quad-filar, going for every advantage... I think it will have about .7 ohm resistance per 25', maybe get a little more length since its nominal diam. is around a 21ga.

Progress on my commutator: 13 connectors installed on last comm, 7 remaining components have been manufactured. should be a matter of hours to install them, then ready to wind. ( that is in hours of free time, which I wont have any now for days, just some on the weekend.)
EDIT: 4 more to install.

Hello Sam,

Sorry but your design on your UNEQUAL SIZED COILS for the Blue Group...will deliver UNEQUAL Magnetic Fields...as also at time for Induction it will produce "jumping" different pulses at generating output.

Think about the magnetic fields...please.

When you make different sizes coils they will have different magnetic densities related to bigger coils...and bisectors will not be distributed EVENLY through circumference angles...

Every Coil in the Group, MUST wrap around EXACTLY same number of poles.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[shylo]

Identical positions

Hi UFO & All, I've wound this 4 times , but only 8 groups, (I have room for 16 groups) things just get too hot. (I test each group)
With every wind , I went to a heavier guage wire, and things kept getting hotter.
Very fine guage ,with more turns per group is running like a champ.

I wind 4 groups at the same time, one wire ,...a start,....and a finish, but they have a junction point in them.
In post # 6397 the 20 pole G1 & G11 are seeing the Identical magnetic field , so you can feed both groups together, as long as their wound the same , and fed the same.
Also I haven't been able to watch video's since the u tube revamp.........
By firing G1 & G11 at the same time just balances out the draw better I think.
artv

[Ufopolitics]

Great Work!

Hi UFO & All, I've wound this 4 times , but only 8 groups, (I have room for 16 groups) things just get too hot. (I test each group)
With every wind , I went to a heavier gauge wire, and things kept getting hotter.
Very fine gauge ,with more turns per group is running like a champ.

Hello Shylo,

Honestly, your contribution to our development here is very important and essential!

I have not got the chance to go into that stage of winding Groups yet...so, I will go by what you are saying till I can get to this end and confirm it.

So, you used a heavier gauge...may we know which one it was?

And which gauge was the finer one that worked out better?

We need to start establishing comparisons here my friend...but going into details...as also how many turns per coil on heavier Versus on finer...and could you take total resistance readings for both types?

I wind 4 groups at the same time, one wire ,...a start,....and a finish, but they have a junction point in them.
In post # 6397 the 20 pole G1 & G11 are seeing the Identical magnetic field , so you can feed both groups together, as long as their wound the same , and fed the same.

I honestly do not understand your expression: "G1 & G11 are seeing the Identical magnetic field"...which magnetic field are you referring to?
Stator Magnetic Fields?...or Rotor Magnetic Fields?

I know we could feed both groups at same time, and that would "balance" rotation...I know also we could feed them Parallel or Series...BUT, we must do those connections Externally on Brushes wires...in order to test both results separately...

Also I haven't been able to watch video's since the u tube revamp.........

If You are using Fire Fox...while being on You Tube...go to Tools/Page Info>>>and at bottom of this window press "Details"/ then press "View Cookies" (will open another small window called "Cookies")...then press "Remove All Cookies"...at bottom center

Restart Fire Fox...go to You Tube again...it should be fine now.

By firing G1 & G11 at the same time just balances out the draw better I think.
artv

Agree, as I said before it also balances rotation forces.

Also I recommend you try slow rotation of different brushes positioning towards attraction poles (South)...while watching speed...it would tell you best timing "by ear"...


Regards


Ufopolitics


EDIT 1

I wind 4 groups at the same time, one wire ,...a start,....and a finish, but they have a junction point in them.

Reviewing our post I realized what you have written above...
It means You are winding ALL this Four Groups in series, with same wire...just making a junction to drop at commutator elements?..so you are feeding them in parallel...ALL FOUR?!!...if that is so...then it is completely WRONG!

Shylo, how can you understand that every Group here is INDEPENDENT from EACH OTHER!...Winding them like you are doing...there is absolutely NO TIME OFF for any of those coils!!...they are ON at ALLl times!...that is why they get hot friend!...plus I wonder how this way it still runs?

You are just doing same exact way Symmetry Winding type does it...one wire and stops at every comm element hook, keep going to next coil...so on...WRONG!

[brian516]

Anyone working on the exciter part of the system??

Hey there UFO,

I've noticed that your work, and design is derived from the following Tesla patent.

Tesla Patent 390,721 - Dynamo-Electric Machine

the same patent that these crooks like QEG and WITTS are claiming to be basing their contraptions on, but the only people I see that are actually seriously working on the ACTUAL original Tesla designs and patents are you and this select group. I would very much like to join in. I still have quite a lot to learn, but unlike many others, my mind hasn't been thoroughly polluted by mainstream 'science' and the fallacies of Einsteinian Physics and like garbage, so I do feel that it would be worth it for me to apply myself to catching up with you all and getting involved. I don't want to be a 'leech', and I don't want to slow you all down in any way, so do expect me to put forth my utmost attention to learning to the best of my ability on my own, with some guidance, if you are willing to have me involved in this with you all.

I will need to start from page one of this thread and move thru at my own pace to absorb the info and do the work, so it'll be some time before I'm at the point where I'll be able to seriously contribute to advancing the knowledge, but I would very much like to try. I'm going to need to make some investments in equipment, too, and that I'm going to have to make the money to get. Since I will be starting fresh, if you wouldn't mind me joining in, I could apply myself towards whatever areas you find your group to be lacking in. Tesla was a very unique and complex minded man, so I'm sure there are plenty of things that would be useful to your project. For instance, the other components to the design shown in his patent, such as the exciter and transformer. The exciter is obviously the more complex of the two, so I could work on that, or the transformer then that, along with building one of your asymmetric generator/motors to compliment the exciter and transformer.

The main thing with me right now, is that I want to focus on Mr Tesla, and not spend my time piddling around with charging and making batteries and solar/wind generators... not that there is anything wrong with that... It just seems to me that you all have picked the most feasible/beneficial Tesla design to focus on, and I would like to be a part of it.

-Brian

[vasfvitor]

http://ufopolitics.com/ is not working in here.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Brian and Welcome

Hey there UFO,

Hello Brian and Welcome!

I've noticed that your work, and design is derived from the following Tesla patent.

Tesla Patent 390,721 - Dynamo-Electric Machine

Brian, back on July 10th 2012 (Tesla's Birthday...)...I uploaded ASYMMETRY TO ENLIGHTENMENT ...and if you go to minute 1:35...you would see on the background the whole Patent # 390721...plus all explanation related to such application...

the same patent that these crooks like QEG and WITTS are claiming to be basing their contraptions on, but the only people I see that are actually seriously working on the ACTUAL original Tesla designs and patents are you and this select group. I would very much like to join in. I still have quite a lot to learn, but unlike many others, my mind hasn't been thoroughly polluted by mainstream 'science' and the fallacies of Einsteinian Physics and like garbage, so I do feel that it would be worth it for me to apply myself to catching up with you all and getting involved. I don't want to be a 'leech', and I don't want to slow you all down in any way, so do expect me to put forth my utmost attention to learning to the best of my ability on my own, with some guidance, if you are willing to have me involved in this with you all.

I will need to start from page one of this thread and move thru at my own pace to absorb the info and do the work, so it'll be some time before I'm at the point where I'll be able to seriously contribute to advancing the knowledge, but I would very much like to try. I'm going to need to make some investments in equipment, too, and that I'm going to have to make the money to get. Since I will be starting fresh, if you wouldn't mind me joining in, I could apply myself towards whatever areas you find your group to be lacking in. Tesla was a very unique and complex minded man, so I'm sure there are plenty of things that would be useful to your project. For instance, the other components to the design shown in his patent, such as the exciter and transformer. The exciter is obviously the more complex of the two, so I could work on that, or the transformer then that, along with building one of your asymmetric generator/motors to compliment the exciter and transformer.

The main thing with me right now, is that I want to focus on Mr Tesla, and not spend my time piddling around with charging and making batteries and solar/wind generators... not that there is anything wrong with that... It just seems to me that you all have picked the most feasible/beneficial Tesla design to focus on, and I would like to be a part of it.

-Brian

You are welcome to start reading this Thread and joining Us...however, there is another one where I actually started this whole thing...before talking about Motors or Generators...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...nt-energy.html

Out of Tesla Patents...We gather a very "unique" attribute on his Machines..."Open Coils"...Pairs and Groups of INDEPENDENTLY ENERGIZED COILS...and from there we have derived into a completely different world of Electrodynamics...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Five Pole Motor All North versus N-S Video...

Hello to All,

Well, I finished video...kind of long though, did not wanted to edit any of the testing parts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diY9...ature=youtu.be

I would like to go over in detail over this Data seen here later on guys...

However, main issue on the Difference in the Tests Results.

I did not wanted to comment about this differences till having the Full Video backing up My Words.

First, understand that I have utilized the same Motor Embodiment, same rotor, same casing, same magnets, same

wire awg and turns, resulting in exactly, same resistance per Pair...in order that the ONLY Difference between

the two Motors were the Geometry of its Rotor Coils...which delivers a very different magnetic field projection...

And the really amazing thing I see here...is the huge difference in performance between this Two almost identical

little machines...

This proven facts...should definitively confirm to all of Us...How Important it is to "see" and understand Magnetic Fields...and

how our Coils positioning will influence their projection into space...changing all results...for the success or for a failure...just have to find

the best way to fit our requirements...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

NN 20 Pole 2 stator rewind

Hello Sam,

Sorry but your design on your UNEQUAL SIZED COILS for the Blue Group...will deliver UNEQUAL Magnetic Fields...as also at time for Induction it will produce "jumping" different pulses at generating output.

Think about the magnetic fields...please.

When you make different sizes coils they will have different magnetic densities related to bigger coils...and bisectors will not be distributed EVENLY through circumference angles...

Every Coil in the Group, MUST wrap around EXACTLY same number of poles.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Roger that, I just miscounted and I just thought it had to be that the last coil was small. My first effort had more counting errors. Here is my redo.



In your post you do seem to verify that I got the total number of poles correct according to your latest thoughts. I applied the ratio of the RS pole (3:5) to 20 poles to get 12 total per group and tried to copy the winding pattern of your quad stator diagrams of your 20 pole Bosch. I am close to finishing my comms.

So Ufo this pattern good to go? Brush positions right? (used RS brush locations)

No probs with where I need to start and end the group coil due to my comms needing the wire to come in at an angle on the connectors, as far as I can tell I hope.

So I am estimating various wrapping configs
19ga wire to come in at .2ohm at about 25'+/-3' per group
21ga wire to come in at .5ohm at about 40'+/-5' per group
my quadfilar 30ga to come in at 1 ohm at about 40' per group

Heating has always been an issue for my asym motors so I am leaning toward my quadfilar. You did not think the quad would be heavy enough in a previous post, but shylo is mentioning heating problems also, and lots of power (on partially wound machines?) You are indicating that a group resistance should be less than 1 ohm, so the quadfilar is right on the edge.

If you think it advisable to build a smaller prototype, I have a lot of 10-pole components around from car window motors. and I still have my QP10, (which lost a brush set, used solder to connect brush wires, easy fix I expect)