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    Ufo,

    It's time to start a physical "Center" for education, building motors, circuit boards, EV's and other QUALITY products. Most of the people whom I speak to don't understand, have no idea or can't get the parts. Those people, our "Average Neighbor", need customer service and products built for them.

    Spurred on by organic growth. We can create an "underground" distribution network for products. We have members strategically located around the world. Some have money and/or time. They are good people and intelligent. Essentially, we can create Service Centers in each country.

    Advertising is where the fun is. Participating in EV races/proving grounds, will be our major advertising. Let the product speak for its self!.... Since EV events are relatively new, but becoming main streaming rather quickly, we can participate in any major EV race of our choosing. Due to high concentration of events and media coverage, Australia and America should be the main starting targets. EV events "Green Technology" are receiving increasing media coverage and it's perceived well by the public.

    Coming from a sales back round and previous small business owner of 12yrs, I can say that Product, Location and Timing are the keys to a great start and with a little luck, great success is within reach. In closing, a "Center" could and should be done.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Richie
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 08-20-2013, 12:44 PM.

    Comment


    • @UFO
      Good Morning, I am excited about your new design and also bringing in things we have learned from the past that can improve the power of the current Imperial without adding more input power. What I was remembering is the use of a tight steel band that was placed over several of our smaller motors and having a noticeable effect on speed and power. Given that the outer case of the imperial is not all that thick, what are your thoughts about creating a slip-on outer steel band for the Imperial, with air hole cutouts of course. It could be a simple build up of sheet steel much like lamination of wood, with an 'L' shaped bend along each side of the center edge to bolt tightly over Imperial like a giant 'C' clamp. Might it be worth the effort???

      Midaz has also let the cat out of the bag about our side project as it was not my place to bring it up first. Now that you know what we are working on, I have a question or two. We are placing the Imperial into his race frame and will be using the Quad Monster. We have been doing some calculations, based on the gear ratio of about 4:1 and feel that it is doable. The speed on the straights will need to be at least 125mph which is doable as 4500RPM on the Imperial with a 4:1 gear ratio should get us 140.6mph. Now with that being said, our questions are about balancing the rotor, bearings and fets/diodes to handle the fast rev action. I will not ask specific questions at this time, but ask all that if you have any thoughts or comments in one of these areas, to feel free to bring in ideas to make this happen.
      UFO, now you know why we are excited about your new design.
      Dana
      "Today's scientist have substituted mathematics for experiments and they wander off through equation after equation and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
      Nikola Tesla

      Comment


      • Motoring.

        Hi Midas and DANA, great project guy's, adding an extra rotor externally to the Imperial, i think will get you what you need for your project, even more torque, more resistance, and possibly way more radiant, to convert and chanell to battery charging.

        As soon as i have a monster built, i will do some experiments, comparing SiC diodes with standard 50-100 Ns diodes, and let you know.

        When UFO works out the best way to carry the PM's in the design, maybe he can design the outer rotor, and produce a cad for all to use. ( no pressure UFO ).

        All The Best Guy's, Cornboy.

        Comment


        • @Cornboy
          There is a lot to do with this but I know we can do it less than the others who spend 20 to ??? thousand dollars.
          @UFO
          Yea, ( no pressure UFO ).
          Dana
          "Today's scientist have substituted mathematics for experiments and they wander off through equation after equation and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
          Nikola Tesla

          Comment


          • Hello to all

            Hi Ufopolitics
            This is my first post here and I want to thank you for sharing
            I am still in the early stage building asymmetrical machines, I have build my PWM for a while now and I did some experiments with printer motors, the only thing I have at the moment...
            I hope that soon I can build JohnStone's Monster driver and get to the real thing...

            The future electric motors are definitely here...

            Best regards

            Comment


            • Exciting again and again.

              Originally posted by prochiro View Post
              @Cornboy
              There is a lot to do with this but I know we can do it less than the others who spend 20 to ??? thousand dollars.
              @UFO
              Yea, ( no pressure UFO ).
              Dana

              Hey again Guy's, i used to race motorcycles way back, off road endurance racing, where you could travel 250 klms, without going on the same track!.

              When i have finished the MAG3, and tested it exhaustivily, and set it to a task, i will Scratch build what i now think will be a heavy duty, EV motor, based on what UFO has shown us with the new designs.

              At this stage, it's looking like a new core material that can be moulded to any shape, and will handle high frequency switching without producing much heat, also instant collapse times, and no magnetic reminance, hopfully to make a robust and sharp, responsive motor.

              Exciting times ahead!.

              Regards all, Cornboy.

              Comment


              • Race bike

                @ All,

                1.) 1/5 of the participants in EV race don't even make it to the starting line. Another 1 or 2 or 3 bike(s) dont finish the race. BUT it's getting better fast! So the Expectations from the EV race world are very low for the first race for us. We have to make it through the two practice runs. Both are on separate days. After that we must make it to the starting and our bike move off the starting line. In my opinion, that is the starting base line for a new team....make it through practice and at least move a few feet from the starting line during the race.

                I believe we can do a lot better than that!....

                2.) The next group is the Commuter/production bike. They are very well built! Even when there is a good crash, the bike, can usually finish the race. Avg Specs below.

                Max torque 68 ft-lb (92 Nm)
                Max power 54 hp (40 kW) @ 4,300 RPM
                Top speed (max) 95 mph (153 km/h)
                Top speed (sustained). 80 mph (129 km/h)
                Weight 350lbs
                Transmit 6speed
                Warranty: 2 Years (Limited Factory Warranty) 1 year Fender-to-Fender Limited Warranty,
                2 year Limited Powertrain Warranty (Batteries and Motor)

                If we finish ahead of this group, we have arrived!
                Again, I believe we can do better than that! ....

                3.) The next group are the big pigs! I mean BIG boys! Huge battery packs, 370 volts max & 1000 amps max sucking monster motors, over 500lbs, groups average race TOP speed of 120mph - 155mph and at the top end of $4.5million US Tender Legal Notes! Oh, did I forget to mention...they are prone to overheating and running low on energy towards the end of a race.
                This is our group!!!!

                I know we can get our bike under 230lbs, small high voltage & low amps battery pack, 125mph, no overheating and under $10,000 us dallors race bike!
                If we finish a race near, within or win in this group, UFO & Team, there's no turning back!

                *Ultimate GOAL* =Pound for pound, $ for $, watts for watts the best race bike on the planet!


                Keep it Clean and Green
                Richie
                Last edited by Midaztouch; 08-21-2013, 06:17 AM.

                Comment


                • Ufopolitics Dual Asymmetrical Imperial (Example of App)

                  Hello to All,

                  [IMG][/IMG]

                  On the Diagram above (which is NOT a FULL CAD Design, strictly made for reproduction on Reality) I am displaying a "Future" Imperial transformed into a Dual Rotor System...and like I have mentioned before, this design is a "Buffer" between my Patent of Shaft Less Machines and a "Traditional" Shaft Motor, this means I am "very" familiar with this Outer Rotor Systems, however, I know it is a completely "New Concept" for you all...but, I will just bring up some main great benefits it will bring along...as you all could realize them, and discuss with me here...

                  1-First, if you notice on the Outer Rotor, the Geometry of the Spaces between Poles does not follow the typical "V" Shape as you see in the inner rotor, instead, it is more likely a "U" Shape design, spreading at the bottom of the "U"...This attribute allows more wire, more copper than the Inner Rotor Concept. From here We could conceive a less deeper Elements "Arms" than Inner Rotor...

                  2- By being located in the Outer Periphery and still depending upon the center shaft...this Enhances considerably the "Flywheel Effect", or the "Hammering Effect" that will definitively create a heavier and much stronger Torque and Speed delivered at its Main Shaft.

                  3- We will no longer need a "Super Heavy Duty" Outer Steel Massive Frame...as we could fabricate a "SPACE FRAME" just to hold all Main Static and Rotary Parts in one Assembly.

                  On the General Concepts..I call this Winding Method a "Caliper Design Armature", since We have Outer P1 and an Inner P1 EMBRACING Stators, As We could conceive this "Relation" to be developed in an "AXIAL" or "RADIAL" Fashion (The one shown here is Radial, of course)...Coils/Pairs are on the same Circuit as We have built before...same winding type, same Bisectors, same Timings...except that now we are "Interacting" also with the outer Stators Magnetic Fields, which are reverse, according to the Typical Convention we have utilized so far (and here it came to my mind when a while back we were discussing a "New Convention" of Displaying the Magnetic Field Polarity of our Stators...)

                  Related to Winding Connections Spec's...We could make many combinations...We could connect Outer Coils/Pairs and Inner Coils/Pairs in Parallel...Or in Series... having the same "consequences" We all have learned before related to Amperage/Resistance/Power...

                  On the Winding Turns...I highly recommend to try our best to "Stabilize/Equalize" as much as we could Outer/Inner Coils Magnetic Fields toward Stators...this will avoid to set a high stress in both Rotor Mass if they are different in forces...reflecting on an "Internal Brake Effect"...negative to rotation.

                  On the Stators Bounding/Supporting Structures, I have conceived Four "H" Beams (Ooops!!... I mentioned the "H Word"!!... )...Now, Two of This Structures, situated at 180 ...We could use our same existing Bolts Holes that joins/connect Both End Caps to Main Frame as a guide. I rather choose Aluminum for this "Members/Beams", and in the 3D Video, you would be able to see the additional curved cross sections that would add more strength as it will become a Solid Space Frame Structure, once all get connected/bolted on. This Beams will be connected to ONLY one Side Cap

                  On the Dual Rotor "Bridge Structure", it consists of a Pattern that comprehends Inner and Outer Arms full length (since they are completely aligned) and Bolts at Inner and Outer Extremes , Structure ends in Inner-Outer Rings for bolting them to Steel Laminations (Not Shown on this Diagram)...It could also be conceived on Aluminum, bolted on before Winding...and covered with Epoxy Insulating Resin before...Now, this Bridge ONLY goes on ONE Side of Rotor...of course, the Opposite to where Stators H Beams attach to.

                  To do the "Final Attachment" from Upper (Rotor) and Lower (Stator) Structures, We use External "[ ]" Brackets, from Cap to Cap. that "Not necessarily need to be a Massive Steel Cylinder Either...Remember, at Outer Rotor we could add our Capacitors "Belt"...and will give us easier access to check them, replace them...read them, etc,etc...

                  It would be understood that EVERY Parameter or "Attribute" of our so far existing Machines Structures ...would be enhanced, at least, doubling our previous output performance...

                  Warm Regards to All


                  Ufopolitics
                  Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-21-2013, 05:45 AM.
                  Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                  Comment


                  • Hello Midaz

                    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
                    Ufo,

                    It's time to start a physical "Center" for education, building motors, circuit boards, EV's and other QUALITY products. Most of the people whom I speak to don't understand, have no idea or can't get the parts. Those people, our "Average Neighbor", need customer service and products built for them.

                    Spurred on by organic growth. We can create an "underground" distribution network for products. We have members strategically located around the world. Some have money and/or time. They are good people and intelligent. Essentially, we can create Service Centers in each country.

                    Advertising is where the fun is. Participating in EV races/proving grounds, will be our major advertising. Let the product speak for its self!.... Since EV events are relatively new, but becoming main streaming rather quickly, we can participate in any major EV race of our choosing. Due to high concentration of events and media coverage, Australia and America should be the main starting targets. EV events "Green Technology" are receiving increasing media coverage and it's perceived well by the public.

                    Coming from a sales back round and previous small business owner of 12yrs, I can say that Product, Location and Timing are the keys to a great start and with a little luck, great success is within reach. In closing, a "Center" could and should be done.

                    Keep it Clean and Green
                    Richie

                    Hello Midaz,

                    Yes we will eventually...will have to do that.

                    However, I rather stay on the side of "Making it Happen" first...then moving ahead, once we test our superiority over other "Locked in Time Concepts"...

                    Related to applications in Transport, like a Bike...which is much simpler than a Four Wheel Vehicle...could be our "starting point"...

                    And yes, I would like to build a "Super Beast" a "Monster" Electric Bike...Aluminum HSLA/KEVLAR Frame/Structures...Carbon Fiber Thin and Supreme Aero Designed Body...etc,etc

                    And of course...A Power Train...well...You all know...

                    And no, we will not need a Huge...100-300 Volt Battery Pack...that will definitively will get our Bikes in a very "Thin Weight" compared with what's going on now.

                    [IMG][/IMG]

                    OMG!...A "Shaft Less" Wheel Bike!!...just like the "TRON BIKE"!!??...

                    [IMG][/IMG]




                    Warm Regards


                    Ufopolitics
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • Welcome Friend!

                      Originally posted by claudjiu View Post
                      Hi Ufopolitics
                      This is my first post here and I want to thank you for sharing
                      I am still in the early stage building asymmetrical machines, I have build my PWM for a while now and I did some experiments with printer motors, the only thing I have at the moment...
                      I hope that soon I can build JohnStone's Monster driver and get to the real thing...

                      The future electric motors are definitely here...

                      Best regards
                      Hello Claudjiu and

                      You will build everything you like to...

                      Enjoy the Ride...

                      Regards

                      Ufopolitics
                      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                      Comment


                      • Great!!

                        Originally posted by prochiro View Post
                        @UFO
                        Good Morning, I am excited about your new design and also bringing in things we have learned from the past that can improve the power of the current Imperial without adding more input power. What I was remembering is the use of a tight steel band that was placed over several of our smaller motors and having a noticeable effect on speed and power. Given that the outer case of the imperial is not all that thick, what are your thoughts about creating a slip-on outer steel band for the Imperial, with air hole cutouts of course. It could be a simple build up of sheet steel much like lamination of wood, with an 'L' shaped bend along each side of the center edge to bolt tightly over Imperial like a giant 'C' clamp. Might it be worth the effort???

                        Midaz has also let the cat out of the bag about our side project as it was not my place to bring it up first. Now that you know what we are working on, I have a question or two. We are placing the Imperial into his race frame and will be using the Quad Monster. We have been doing some calculations, based on the gear ratio of about 4:1 and feel that it is doable. The speed on the straights will need to be at least 125mph which is doable as 4500RPM on the Imperial with a 4:1 gear ratio should get us 140.6mph. Now with that being said, our questions are about balancing the rotor, bearings and fets/diodes to handle the fast rev action. I will not ask specific questions at this time, but ask all that if you have any thoughts or comments in one of these areas, to feel free to bring in ideas to make this happen.
                        UFO, now you know why we are excited about your new design.
                        Dana
                        Hello Dana,


                        Once You get a deeper feeling of this new application...then you will see what they will bring along...

                        I believe that is a "conservative" ratio (4:1)...however, according to numbers in output is very promising!!...that's great

                        Now, on building my X Rider...and dealing/chatting with Kelly's Controllers excellent rep's...I have learned many "shortcuts" to understand relationships between controller/power train...

                        For example "eRPM's" or Electronic RPM's = Motor RPM's *(times) Number of Poles
                        Now, here we are referring to an "Outrunner" Brushless design Hub Motor... and if you are familiar of the way they are wound...will know windings do not overlap, nor comprehend more than ONE POLE...so We will have to create our own eRPM's "formula" based on the Number of Pairs/Coils in our Machines...

                        When it comes into Programming the Kelly's Controllers...they could "add" the "Ultra-Fast Motor" attribute...and that will not make motor go faster...but will increase the eRPM's ratio...so Pulses could keep up with Motor at higher speed.

                        Related to Controller Connections:

                        [IMG][/IMG]

                        Reverse is not used for bikes...as I also deleted the Thermistor at Motor (I do not have one...

                        Some interesting "Guidelines" We should also follow...like

                        Adding a Solenoid on the Positive side along with a "Pre-Charge" Resistor, joining HV of Solenoid Contacts...this will "smooth" connection ON Time, when Controller closes the Loop at Ignition Key switch ON.

                        The only difference (basically speaking) between a BLDC Controller and our Quad Pulser...is One More Phase Signal...as also keeping "Dead Times" apart, and NOT overlapping them as this BLDC Does...the rest is very similar....I will tell you more when I load program and start playing with programming set up...

                        Since this type of winding (BLDC) is based on Three Coils joined with a common point, whether "Y" or Delta Types... Their Controllers could be programmed for 60 and 120 apart signals...60 will deliver higher Torque/less speed (RPM's)...and 120 the opposite...

                        They use a Single Low Voltage Supply (5.0 Volts) to "communicate/execute" the Microprocessor side signals...like Throttle ,Brake Regen, as also the BLDC Motor Hall Sensors Voltage...

                        I believe this is very useful...for our future circuiting/connections/design on the Quad Pulsers set up...


                        Warm Regards friend


                        Ufopolitics
                        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 08-21-2013, 06:43 AM.
                        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • Monster Taming.

                          Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                          Hello to All,

                          [IMG][/IMG]

                          On the Diagram above (which is NOT a FULL CAD Design, strictly made for reproduction on Reality) I am displaying a "Future" Imperial transformed into a Dual Rotor System...and like I have mentioned before, this design is a "Buffer" between my Patent of Shaft Less Machines and a "Traditional" Shaft Motor, this means I am "very" familiar with this Outer Rotor Systems, however, I know it is a completely "New Concept" for you all...but, I will just bring up some main great benefits it will bring along...as you all could realize them, and discuss with me here...

                          1-First, if you notice on the Outer Rotor, the Geometry of the Spaces between Poles does not follow the typical "V" Shape as you see in the inner rotor, instead, it is more likely a "U" Shape design, spreading at the bottom of the "U"...This attribute allows more wire, more copper than the Inner Rotor Concept. From here We could conceive a less deeper Elements "Arms" than Inner Rotor...

                          2- By being located in the Outer Periphery and still depending upon the center shaft...this Enhances considerably the "Flywheel Effect", or the "Hammering Effect" that will definitively create a heavier and much stronger Torque and Speed delivered at its Main Shaft.

                          3- We will no longer need a "Super Heavy Duty" Outer Steel Massive Frame...as we could fabricate a "SPACE FRAME" just to hold all Main Static and Rotary Parts in one Assembly.

                          On the General Concepts..I call this Winding Method a "Caliper Design Armature", since We have Outer P1 and an Inner P1 EMBRACING Stators, As We could conceive this "Relation" to be developed in an "AXIAL" or "RADIAL" Fashion (The one shown here is Radial, of course)...Coils/Pairs are on the same Circuit as We have built before...same winding type, same Bisectors, same Timings...except that now we are "Interacting" also with the outer Stators Magnetic Fields, which are reverse, according to the Typical Convention we have utilized so far (and here it came to my mind when a while back we were discussing a "New Convention" of Displaying the Magnetic Field Polarity of our Stators...)

                          Related to Winding Connections Spec's...We could make many combinations...We could connect Outer Coils/Pairs and Inner Coils/Pairs in Parallel...Or in Series... having the same "consequences" We all have learned before related to Amperage/Resistance/Power...

                          On the Winding Turns...I highly recommend to try our best to "Stabilize/Equalize" as much as we could Outer/Inner Coils Magnetic Fields toward Stators...this will avoid to set a high stress in both Rotor Mass if they are different in forces...reflecting on an "Internal Brake Effect"...negative to rotation.

                          On the Stators Bounding/Supporting Structures, I have conceived Four "H" Beams (Ooops!!... I mentioned the "H Word"!!... )...Now, Two of This Structures, situated at 180 ...We could use our same existing Bolts Holes that joins/connect Both End Caps to Main Frame as a guide. I rather choose Aluminum for this "Members/Beams", and in the 3D Video, you would be able to see the additional curved cross sections that would add more strength as it will become a Solid Space Frame Structure, once all get connected/bolted on. This Beams will be connected to ONLY one Side Cap

                          On the Dual Rotor "Bridge Structure", it consists of a Pattern that comprehends Inner and Outer Arms full length (since they are completely aligned) and Bolts at Inner and Outer Extremes , Structure ends in Inner-Outer Rings for bolting them to Steel Laminations (Not Shown on this Diagram)...It could also be conceived on Aluminum, bolted on before Winding...and covered with Epoxy Insulating Resin before...Now, this Bridge ONLY goes on ONE Side of Rotor...of course, the Opposite to where Stators H Beams attach to.

                          To do the "Final Attachment" from Upper (Rotor) and Lower (Stator) Structures, We use External "[ ]" Brackets, from Cap to Cap. that "Not necessarily need to be a Massive Steel Cylinder Either...Remember, at Outer Rotor we could add our Capacitors "Belt"...and will give us easier access to check them, replace them...read them, etc,etc...

                          It would be understood that EVERY Parameter or "Attribute" of our so far existing Machines Structures ...would be enhanced, at least, doubling our previous output performance...

                          Warm Regards to All


                          Ufopolitics


                          Hello UFO, what i would suggest for this enhancement, to the imperial, is that a member with time and funds, use your finished cads to get PM holders and outer stator Lam's, made, and then distribute the parts, using Paypal system, where you only need an email linked account to make payment.

                          If you use a method like this everyone will have same chance at constant results, and would keep price down.

                          Also for outer housing if you could use standard size Aluminium tube it would be a great saving.

                          Thinking out loud, Cornboy.

                          PS. off to tame some Monsters.

                          Comment


                          • Well...that's great!!

                            Originally posted by Cornboy 555 View Post
                            Hey again Guy's, i used to race motorcycles way back, off road endurance racing, where you could travel 250 klms, without going on the same track!.

                            When i have finished the MAG3, and tested it exhaustivily, and set it to a task, i will Scratch build what i now think will be a heavy duty, EV motor, based on what UFO has shown us with the new designs.

                            At this stage, it's looking like a new core material that can be moulded to any shape, and will handle high frequency switching without producing much heat, also instant collapse times, and no magnetic reminance, hopfully to make a robust and sharp, responsive motor.

                            Exciting times ahead!.

                            Regards all, Cornboy.
                            Hello Cornboy,


                            Well, start "getting back in training"...yes, you would be needing those skills soon...


                            Regards


                            Ufopolitics
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • What.

                              Hey UFO, we posted on the same minute AGAIN, go figure, or Figuera.

                              Comment


                              • Pre-charge relays

                                Adding a Solenoid on the Positive side along with a "Pre-Charge" Resistor, joining HV of Solenoid Contacts...this will "smooth" connection ON Time, when Controller closes the Loop at Ignition Key switch ON.
                                UFO

                                Coincidence! One of the racers told me about that yesterday.
                                Here's a good link for additional information for us.
                                Li-Ion BMS - Precharge

                                I believe that is a "conservative" ratio (4:1)...however, according to numbers in output is very promising!!...that's great
                                4:1 conservative!?.... I'm worried about hard Acceleration coming out of corners and the back straight(need to hit high speeds fast!)

                                And yes, I would like to build a "Super Beast" a "Monster" Electric Bike...Aluminum HSLA/KEVLAR Frame/Structures...Carbon Fiber Thin and Supreme Aero Designed Body...etc,etc
                                All that stuff is really great but it would take way too long, many years! Grab a motorcycle of your choice, that's already in production, put the Imperial in it and move forward! That's more than enough for now!


                                Keep it Clean and Green
                                Richie
                                Last edited by Midaztouch; 08-21-2013, 09:19 AM.

                                Comment

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