My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Cornboy 555]

[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks Indiana boys finally the penny drops.

Regards and thanks,

Cornboy.

[IndianaBoys]

CornBoy 555,

Glad to hear you had success, good job, atta boy, etc.

Your work looks very intriguing!

Waiting with anticipation to see it in action!

We are on the verge of some very exciting times shifting away from carbon based energy!

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of the 1890's - SHIFT HAPPENS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8z_ksBuwY4

IndianaBoys

[prochiro]

@JohnStone
On the drawing showing PWM out heavy wire there is a drawing error. Not really showing correct contacts to fets. We know what you meant though.

@ all
All parts can be found at Mouser by typing part number into their
search engine, and some on ebay for the regular stuff. Also digikey has some. If you can not find something go to

http://octopart.com/partsearch#search/requestDatahttp://

they will tell you and send you to where it is.
Dana

[Rl2003]

Parts list

John S.

I started with the Eagle layout of your Monster Driver.
I noticed that you left out D10 (in4007) from your parts list.
Just thought you may want to add it.

I am missing a Mosfet driver like the MIC4452yn (non inverted)
so I will need to find a part or make one.
I should have the Schematic close for inspection soon.

Mark

[Cornboy 555]

Going on.

Ufopolitics,

You are far out!

This will be very interesting!

Looking forward to read your feedback once you give it a whirl.

That looks like it came from a Torqmaster?



IndianaBoys

Hello UFO@all, as you know my interest is in EV propulsion, and i have always thought that an electric motor based on all coils being in forced resonant LC tank circuit mode, which of course would be at a set RPM, would be the way to go.

Of course if this could be acheived, it would offer a very high resistance to incoming current and be very efficent, problem being how to vary the speed to suit vehicle needs.

I use to sell and service commercial mowers a short while ago and the larger mowers, 6ft cut and up were all based on the same principle, they had a large diesel engine opperating at fixed RPM coupled to a standard and vairable dissplacment hydraulic pumps, and from there you could do what ever you wanted, including varing the ground speed, cutter drive ect.

This technology already exists, done deal,all we need is an electric motor that has a resonate spot, with very high torque at about 3500RPM, as you know if the motor dropped too far in RPM it would fall from resonance and start to draw lots of current.

I'm just babbling here UFO's pic of caps in rotor got me started.

Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Connecting a Cap to N-S of a Coil...

Perfect UFO, we are on the same page.
If you connect the caps between n and s of coil, it would remain open, right. So, we need to do both, to see difference betwwen an open and closed system. Wounld't that be a good test?

Hey Machine,

Could you explain ...How could I connect a Cap...between a North and a South of a Coil?...sorry, lost you there my friend.
Trying to figure that you meant to connect Cap between Coil Positive-Negative...however, in the 9 pole, all Coils would be either North or South facing outwards on rotor...so say all North facing out...it can't be done.
Then I realize you may be talking about the Imperial...then it makes sense...connecting "along" coil terminals of both, N-S ends...but still that is Parallel..

Am I right?

I hope to due what you are doing with my new brush, except I will be discharging coil whole time, and you will be discharging at once. Charge your cap then put your screwdriver acrossed it, that will be what brushes experience if it fully charges, I can't wait to see what happens.

Unfortunately, the Caps I could find...that will fit within the limited space...and still allow wires in...are 5 uF...I really wanted at least a 10uF...but...that is life...
Then 5uF is not such a big capacitance to make that screwdriver test.

I also want to see that thing spinning, unfortunately, I am tight up at the moment...so I am going to resin it and isolate the end terminals at comm (they will try to arc to nearest discharge bare connection, I know that, cause I did it at smaller scale before)..also, note that I spread the gaps at elements pretty good...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Yes, it is a Torquemaster...

Ufopolitics,

You are far out!

This will be very interesting!

Looking forward to read your feedback once you give it a whirl.

That looks like it came from a Torqmaster?



IndianaBoys

Hello IB,

Yes it is a TorqueMaster...I cut three poles at 120º...so now I have a 9 Pole with three spaces in between...

[IMG][/IMG]

The winding is based on the 3 pole, single coils (not pairs) that I displayed in my first pages here.

I had this model in my head for a while...as I had also the caps (just missing one till now, I decided to hunt for it to finally make it)...they come from remote control base unit for Fan-Light Switches...

I want to build this model open and also closed (relating to outer frame structures, but same armature)...so it will be a little time to run it...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello UFO, here goes the dumb questions, please take it easy on me, as i passed 1st class mechanical but not electrical.

You "Humans" are not perfect...but I will try to cope with that fact...

Yes i will be using OUR John Stone's pulser, god bless him.

YES!!...Great, and wishing too...that God Bless Sir John Stone!!

It was a tragedy about your garlic, if you let me know how much you owe Machine Alive i can ship some of next years crop straight to him, freight might be easier to go to the snow country.

Yeah, I mean, I do understand your point, but now...you are "jumping the gun" here brother...by trying to blow me away...as the middle man transaction ...between Machine and You...so...what about My "Expected Profitable Commissions" ??!!

I think i see every thing here so far, UFO, and i will follow your instructions and start simple as you suggest. Please don't be afraid to let me know if you think i am not understanding properly.

No Problems...

So wind stator coils as 3 x N-S pairs, and pulse them simultaneously but separately with 3x JS modules, with one PWM signal to all 3 modules?

Nope...Wrong Start Cornboy,

Pay attention, please:

You have, You MUST see the Pulsing Operation as a Signal to the Whole Machine...not just to Stators now...then later to Rotor...understand that so far?

Well, then picture FIRST Each Brush Gate turning On Each Coil Pair, so let's start from "the beginning" or Set 1...meaning, Brush Gate P1, so when we turn Brush Gate P1, We Must also Turn On the Stator Gate 1 (N1-S1)...and that MUST BE simultaneously and IDENTICAL in Timing and Pulse Intensity...Meaning SAME PULSE...same Out Channel Leg from Arduino Microprocessor, followed by same FET Channels, EXCEPT that You will need Two FET Modules here, using same Signal Gate to both FET Modules ..One for Brush...One for Stator.

Meaning:

FET Channel 1A will turn Brush Gate 1>>Excited at FET Gates by Signal 1
FET Channel 1B will turn Stator Gate 1>>Excited at FET Gates by Signal 1

NOW HERE... Is something RELATED...That I wanted to tell You...and VERY IMPORTANT:

Your Stators Coils Pairs MUST BE VERY CLOSE BALANCED MAGNETICALLY with Your Rotor Coil Pairs...Meaning, They MUST Have very CLOSE Magnetic Field Strength...SO;

1-You will have to Calculate Your Stator Core Area (Just the area where wires will turn around, NOT Front Face) the type of wire you are using (awg)...
2-Calculate Your Rotor Pairs Core Area...versus Your Number of Turns You did in the awg...so you could match when you wind your stators.

You must make some testing first on One Stator Pair versus just One Rotor Pair, by feeding them linear with same power source (same V same A, best from a PSU)...and here the best way to measure this...would be to have a Electromagnetic Field Meter...BUT Rated for High Magnetic Fields Range...NOT 0.1 to 199 mGauss...as also, This Meters reflect the ELF (Electromagnetic Frequency) and that should be rated at our Highest driving Frequencies from Electronics controller to Machine...

Even though there are rudimentary ways to approach this readings...or making easy special tools...to show attraction repulsion forces from both fields and I know we all do not have all the Budget, to make this the way we all wished to...but we will find the way.

Now, going back to the Electronics side:

I feel more comfortable by using dual FET Modules...since both Coils Circuits (Stator-Rotor Coils) will have different Parameters, and different responses...Rotor Gates will have more "Dynamic Kick Back" or reverse currents and will be pulsing very High...while Stators are "Static"... and much "cleaner" flow...,as also you will be collecting more pure Radiant through separate Diodes from Stators Gates...and will not have the "Noise" from Dynamic Pulsed Feedback" mixed up.

That's my opinion...let's ask Sir John Stone...what He thinks of this approach...

Ok, So Up to Gate 1 Feeding...You are not "Cornfused"?

Still Cornfused?>>>Go Back to first part and re read it...

Not Cornfused?>>>Let's proceed,

Ok, Now, this Signals coming from Microprocessor, are separated by a "Pre Programmed Dead Time"...Therefore, they are NOT THE SAME, so when you wrote (And referring to the outlined, bold letters by me below):

So wind stator coils as 3 x N-S pairs, and pulse them simultaneously but separately with 3x JS modules, with one PWM signal to all 3 modules?

We are NOT using same signals to All Stators NOR to All Brush Gates...NOPE!

Do You like Music?...it may sound off topic...but it is not...Basically referring to Musical Rhythm

This Signals follow a Rhythm...a sequential "Boom" like in Musical Percussion, now this "Boom" could have different time duration, like Booom...or Boooom...separated by a timing ratio, that we also have access to vary... increasing or decreasing it...and all this...when following a Pattern...configures a Rhythm...

So You "Picture" where I am trying to demonstrate here, in simple words written on a Pad...

So We Pulse FIRST, GATES ONE (Note Gate is in Plural, meaning Stator Gate 1 and Brush Gate 1) with our first BOOM...let's call it BOOM1.

Start Sequence:

BOOM1

<First Dead Time Here>

BOOM2.../Guess what will it trigger?/

/Yes, Correct, Gates Two...meaning Stator Gate 2 and Brush Gate 2

<Second Dead Time here>

BOOM3

/Now here...we have turned Rotor a Full 360º at a speed determined by our BOOM Duration...and the Dead Times separations/

/Then We Repeat Sequence...and so on/


Now here We have MANY Ways to Play around ...with the Duration Time of the BOOM, and the Dead Times or idling spaces in between of different signals overlapping , we could accelerate, decelerate, increase power, decrease power...as all kind of "special effects" too...

You must realize there is NOT JUST ONE "Drummer" playing those Booms...but different ones...However, they must have Synchronicity in their Rhythm...it must "FLOW and BLEND" very smoothly...

Related to this "Musical Parallel Thinking"...Our Drummers are our FET's...performing those BOOMS, when they close their Source-Drains...Our Coils will be that "ECHO" , resonating and amplifying the sound...

If that is correct, which would be the best way to time the signal?
1. From vane hall sensor sending signal to pulser, fixed with rotor RPM, if so what would you reccomend as on time, say in degrees?

2. From PWM driver, with adjustable duty and frequency?

All this does not "APPLY" since it belongs to your wrong assumption...

I know it's down the track aways, but in regards to secondary windings, i have the opportunity now to leave space on stator cores after winding primaries as i can wind the primaries wide and flat and still have enough room for secondaries directly on the iron cores.

The reason i am asking this now is i will be coating all windings, rotor and stators, with a generous bathing of insulating varnish, which will make changing wiring later difficult.

I Really WOULD NOT DO THAT...Meaning...Do Not "Fully Wrap this Present" yet...until We are SURE that everything works fine and "Dandy"

I would rather use Tape for insulation on Stators Cores...as the insulation Paper I mentioned before...And the Fiberglass Tape for wires...tight with some electrical straps... but DO NOT Make it Fully Epoxied...till we conduct some heavy testing.

I was referring above to STATOR ONLY...You could do EPOXY Rotor, once you check all contacts are Ok...no shorts to ground from coils...and all Pairs have similar resistance...and Commutator contacts are fine...

I do not know about you guys...but an "EXPERIMENTAL MODEL" is NOT a Show Room Beauty!...We must make it secure, that's a FACT...but, We should use as cheaper and easier materials to remove IF THINGS WENT SOUTH...Understand my friend?

My understanding is that with secondaries directly on the core, the output will be more like a standard transformer, hot, maybe better for say battery charging, where secondaries wound over the top of primaries, more cold, maybe better for say running a seperate stock DC motor to run generator for battery charging?

So i guess my question is, Should i wind primary stator coils all the way up the cores?

Yep i'm cornfused.

Cornboy, a personal suggestion...You are still confused, because you keep thinking "ahead" of something that you still do NOT Fully Understand...My Friend...!!
And the more you "Jump Ahead on the Future"...without understanding clearly your Present...the more Confused You will be My Dear Friend...honestly speaking here.

I have written to You in previous Posts...when you were "Insisting" on Secondaries for this Motor...HOLD ON!

Listen, I DO NOT Recommend Secondaries "Thinking Randomly" about "possible uses"...Your "Secondaries" WILL COME...BUT Please...relax...

Your "Secondaries"...would be shown when I display the Full Six Pack Signal or the Turbo Boost to your MAG 3...

But, again, and see what I meant before...You are NOT Fully understanding this Primary Part, You are Cornfused...BUT, you want to keep "Jumping" like a Rabbit in a very nice green forest...

I am still struggling with how you can pulse the output gates i can't see clearly yet what you mean, and how this works.
I know you show this with Imperial, but it hasn't sunk in yet sorry.

You are right UFO, i need to do some backtracking, but crap, it's hard to find the precious time to sift back through the threads.


Anyway SIX PACK sounds great i used to have one once.

Warm regards UFO

Cornboy.

You WILL Understand ALL This SO perfectly fine...to the Point You could be hired to Teach at Sydney Main University...My Friend, I WILL Guarantee that!!...seriously speaking.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

UFO,

I sent you a pm, I don't want to confuse people, if I am wrong, anymore then I already do.

[Ufopolitics]

Stators...

[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks Indiana boys finally the penny drops.

Regards and thanks,

Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

Beautiful full image picture!!

Congratulations!...as also Congratulations to Indiana Boys...for having the "Patience"...

Now, criticizing your build...

Stators are too far out...no need to see that gap between aluminum and steel laminations...that will increase your air gap from Stator to Rotor...you do NOT want that!

Stators should be "adjustable" In-Out, maybe running through channel...and going through that aluminum frame hole easy in-out...never smaller hole.


Follow me my friend?

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Read-Sent PM

UFO,

I sent you a pm, I don't want to confuse people, if I am wrong, anymore then I already do.

Hey Machine,

Got your PM...and answered back...

Just make sure you do not get "Cornfused" here also, please!...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

@ UFO
Man, UFO, with all that you do and a music writer too. Boom Ba Ba Boom Boom Booooooom.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Flying Cars...

I think we're on the same page, and that's a beautiful design. Can it fly though?

Many thanks for the driver design, John.

Cheers!
Cole

Hello 4lpha,

They could Fly...if we get the "Right Gear"...

However...Body would Change just a bit...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

...
I noticed that you left out D10 (in4007) from your parts list.
Just thought you may want to add it.

I am missing a Mosfet driver like the MIC4452yn (non inverted)
so I will need to find a part or make one.
I should have the Schematic close for inspection soon.

Mark

Hi Mark, Prochiro,
thanks for corrections.
- I modified the FET connection. Find it at same place, link, name like befor but download again.
- D10 is there 2nd position in BOM


Mark, the MIC4452 has a standard pinning. like i.e
UCC 27322, UCC27321, UCC37321, UCC37322
MCP1406, MCP1407
The layout was adapted to 1/10" pitch. If you make a real layout you can condense some parts.
Please make the circuit dirver output, related caps FET gate, FET GND and driver GND pin 5 AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE, much copper. The resistors in this circuit might be preferrably SMD 0805 or less. This circuit determines the overall switching speed ultimately to be less than 100ns.
While switching disregard any power wires. Regard the caps between pin 5 and 8 as being the only power supply available. The current needs to flow (12A): from cap, driver output, FET gate, FET source and back to cap forward or reverse depending on switching direction -> low resistance, less bends, short. We talk her of HF design - 10MHz.
Please parallel the wire from output to gate with GND wire from source to driver pin 5. You can run one wire at top side and the other at bottom side.

Let space around Drain because we expect hrer up to 650V and we do not want to have spraks to Source or gate.

@ALL: I talk above about pinning and not of functional compatibility - there is none available in trems of performance!

JohnS

[JohnStone]

Hi Ufo,

still pondering in this:

"If that is correct, which would be the best way to time the signal?
1. From vane hall sensor sending signal to pulser, fixed with rotor RPM, if so what would you reccomend as on time, say in degrees?

2. From PWM driver, with adjustable duty and frequency?
All this does not "APPLY" since it belongs to your wrong assumption..."

Do you wnat to say that we control this motor similar to a stepper motor? Is the motor totally dependnet on reins, synchronously to pulses?

Will we generate constat pulsing or intermittant pulse packets?

I try to prepare myself mentally for next electronic tasks.
JohnS