My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[GlenWV]

Peerless Electric DG56D Motor

Greetings all:

I have come up with two Peerless DG56D motors. These are 1/2 hp, 48 VDC, split-series wound.

The armature has 24 positions. There are two brushes in the end cap. The stator windings measure about 1 ohm when seriesed, read with a analog (Simpson 260) meter.

How to remove the stator windings is not apparent, as the mounts are not bolted through the motor housing. They may be welded into place, or held in place by friction with the motor housing, which is welded together.

The question is: Is one ohm stator resistance 'good enough' to get us what we want from a UFO motor?

My plan is to drive a 5kw generator head with the motor.

Thanks for your input.

gl.

[DadHav]

Tests

I do not refer to those who want to have imediate proof of OU but to those who want to learn the art.

As most of us are not able or have no funds in order to take true scientific measurements I suggest the following procedure starting with the notion that most of us buy 2 identical motors before mod. In other words: let's envision the wood beside the tree focussed to.

A: Measurements at original motor(s)
A1: Without load:

• Operate the motor at different voltages (step of 1 Volt)
• Take Measurements at each step: Volt / Amp / rpm

A2: Including loads

• Same but with 2 different loads like a fan or airscrew, motor generator with known resistive load ...... We get plenty of adapters in hobby sector

Option:
O1: Do all measurement series for 3 times in order to know your precision. The average will be much closeer to the truth than a single measurement.
O2: Add temperature but you need to wait for settling 5 min. minimum. So it is advisable to do it at special points like with load but at half rpm measured when idling or at point of max effitiency

B: Measurements at modified motor - ignoring generator option
B1: Without load

• Operate the motor at same Volt, Amps, rpm like at A and take the rest of the two values i.e. adjust for same rpm and measure Amp and Volt .....

B2:Including loads

• Apply the very same fan(s) / aircrew(s)... like before and take measurements like B1. The environment like motor holder ... shall be the very same.

Draw useful graphs in order to understand the clue and characteristic properties we plan to grow up.
Generate power graphs. Find the point of max effitiency, compare, learn, look ahead, plan next....
It will not be possible or useful to take futher measurements for all variants we haven up to now but decide in what area (setup, rpm ....) you plan to focus next.

C: Measurements at modified motor including generator option
i.e. depending on your results obove
C1:

• Load as before but adding different setups at generator side. Does it support the motor section by reducing amps or adding rpms .....

C2:

• ......

Generate graphs and compare, understand differencies, compare power in order to understand. Please undertand that comparing power will not be any proof for now because we need to get the sum of shaft (hot) power and generator (hot) power and HER contribution. Without data gatherd before we will never appreciate HER contribition.
I will do the very same procedure but more sophisticated and partly automated. You will not understend my results coming if you did not dig into matters before.

It seems to be lots of effort but that's science - initially a lot of tedieous work. It's like ascending a mouintain - first of all it is a matter of effort. And sometimes the landscape is not as expected. That does not proof there are no landscapes at all but you need to ascend another mountain in order to get YOUR landscape.
Please understand that is is of minor use if we judge against our current knowledge. We need to take it in account and at same time look forward if there are new facts to be discoverd changing tne landscanpe partly or completely. We obviously are not able to comprehend things by looking to them and teasing them a bit.


I feel the procedure above is the only simple and vialble approach in order to get futher along increasing knowledge. The goal is discovery and not proof (for now)

~o0o~

Remember the great scintist Thor Heyerdahl. In his times every known scientist claimed that old cultures never were able to cross oceans. The popolation stayed there since teh continets drifted apart. The scientists judged against their restricted knowledge - seeing it as ultima ratio, the most possible thought.
Thor did'nt care but built in Peru a raft (Kontiki) out of balsa wood and crossed the Pacific Ocean heading to Asia and only because he rised out of his comfortable university chair and explored a vision. And he did it not once but with RaI, RaII, Tigris .... At every jurney he learned more and more about old cultures, their knowledge, their accomplishments and how modern they were.
In the end he was wrong: the lokal population in Fidji is of Asian origin and not American. But who cares today? He made his way and contributed a major part of knowldge to the community.
Let's change the world as well to not be ruled by restricted knowledge.
JohnS

Hello John. Thank you very much for your post. I'd like to mention that a power supply isn't needed if it's out of your economic range. A person could get a few "D" size battery holders and use alligator clips to vary the voltage. When it comes to your test ideas, this is almost exactly what I did in my video.
UFO Motor Tests
UFO / Tesla Motor Tests - YouTube
John. Did you see this video. I would greatly appreciate you having a look at it and giving me your strongest criticism. I thought it was polite, objective, honest and offers even more insight than what you are suggesting for tests in the above post. Please have a look. I only ask for proof from an inventor when he has made extraordinary claims. In all my videos I never mention free energy or over unity. If I did I would expect someone to say prove it. OK so using the word discover is a good idea. I agree with that and every thing you say. I discovered the modification was not a motor I could practically use for anything. A simple 100 ma. load on the output required 200 ma draw from the power supply. I had no use for the huge increase in KV but that's a matter of personal use of the motor. The torque tests with an air-screw at comparative input levels shows the motor to have less torque. This video was the start of a bad experience for me here but I'm going to be here until the end and hope someone will produce a similar set of tests with great results. You must get something from this motor that is out of the ordinary: As a few examples: You should be able to feed the extra Potential from the generator coil back to the battery to reduce the current load without the motor slowing down or even obtain a self runner. You should be able to light a bulb on the generator side without the current going up or the motor slowing down. Ideally if you put a bulb on the output you would like to see a decrease in current draw without the motor slowing down. If you would like to see an example of how I feel that should look, you can see it on my video here:
Free Energy On Output Coil (post 4189)

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light-140.html

John, I respect your opinion more than anyone on this forum and I hope you can bring some order and simple standards to the testing.
Thanks again.
John Hav.

[Ufopolitics]

There will NOT BE 3000 More Post...

Hello to all,

Like I wrote before I am extremely busy, however, I am also busy constructing the FINAL TESTING...
There WILL NOT BE another 3000 Posts before I present My Set Up...
My Intentions are NOT to argue here anymore with anyone...as it will be just a matter of time to prove beyond doubt this Technology WILL turn a Symmetric Generator INSTEAD of a stinking, farting,little one cylinder gas engine...
I am entirely committed to build this Asymmetric Prime Mover in excellent and robust ways...to put -finally- behind, the obsolete Gas Prime Mover Story Teller...

I have an "untouched" Original P56 Imperial Motor...that I will connect-couple to Generator...so all see that it will NOT turn it with same feed...as Symmetric design.

I will show the inner construction in detail of this conversion, as why I have chosen this Motor...

You guys building and testing other models are doing a great work...please do not get disturbed by the "Audience Inquiries/Opinions"...keep going...

So Prompt...the Brushed Motors are dying?

Check out this One...

[IMG][/IMG]

EV Source - NetGain WarP 11 Electric Motor


Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

....
The question is: Is one ohm stator resistance 'good enough' to get us what we want from a UFO motor?

My plan is to drive a 5kw generator head with the motor.
...

Hi GlenWV! WELCOME!
My humble opinion is that your fist build does not need to fulfill all specs required for a final equipment. There is lots to do before. But please do not feel dicouraged.
Your motors are fine with 24 poles.

Stator:
A:
The winding does not need to be removed at first step. Use it as is and if it draws too much current you can add a resistor for limiting the current or you supply it from another current source. Treat this part of the motor like a permanent magnet. And calculate the energy for it separately.

B: Later on you might want to pulse the stator winding additionally in order to get radiant out and then the 1 Ohm value is preferred.

Rotor:
The main concern is to get your baby running with the modified armature.


Please understand that we are still in the state of research and we do not have a final instructable - but fortunately we have a superiour instructor . We are apprentices in matters of creation and it's properties.That burdens you as well to learn a lot by yourself and of course you will get help. If you have not done it already I ask you kindly to read the thread from the beginning. Lots of knowledge there you will need urgently. Most of us did it before.

BTW: You have one stator left you will not use so you can check it for how the stator poles are attached to the housing.
rgds JohnS

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Glen

Greetings all:

I have come up with two Peerless DG56D motors. These are 1/2 hp, 48 VDC, split-series wound.

The armature has 24 positions. There are two brushes in the end cap. The stator windings measure about 1 ohm when seriesed, read with a analog (Simpson 260) meter.

How to remove the stator windings is not apparent, as the mounts are not bolted through the motor housing. They may be welded into place, or held in place by friction with the motor housing, which is welded together.

The question is: Is one ohm stator resistance 'good enough' to get us what we want from a UFO motor?

My plan is to drive a 5kw generator head with the motor.

Thanks for your input.

gl.

Hello Glen,

You have there a great armature of 24 poles...however, the fact of having only two brush/two stator structure makes it weaker when talking about the torque required to run a 5KW Generator head...

The Stators at One(1) Ohm will be fine ONLY IF You pulse them with DC...or Feed them with AC...Not linear, direct DC will make Stators heat up at certain time of running...deteriorating their performance.

Now, if You brake that structure in Four at the 360 quadrant (not at Armature but Static side)...by making it a four brush/four stators...then you will be able to run that generator...

A 24 Poles is divisible by four (6), meaning, you will build Pairs of Coils where each Coil will grab Six Poles, and have room to set 24 Pairs (P-24 Design)...so you will have a more robust and better distributed forces along the 360 degrees.

The Wound Stators as also the Armature needs to be Pulsed by a robust Oscillator my friend, based on strong and fast switching MOSFET's...and you will get returned power from Stator windings with the diodes set-up...that you will need to use that power somewhere... like lighting your machine controls...or in a cooling Asymmetrical or even Symmetrical Fan Motor for both assemblies...
OR...You could use the power returned by stators to run your Main Armature...and test which way will be best...

I understand this are not simple builds-constructs, however, I am only writing here what will and what will not do its job...in order you guys do not waste your time and money.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

You are completely right, John...

Hi GlenWV! WELCOME!
My humble opinion is that your fist build does not need to fulfill all specs required for a final equipment. There is lots to do before. But please do not feel dicouraged.
Your motors are fine with 24 poles.

Stator:
A:
The winding does not need to be removed at first step. Use it as is and if it draws too much current you can add a resistor for limiting the current or you supply it from another current source. Treat this part of the motor like a permanent magnet. And calculate the energy for it separately.

B: Later on you might want to pulse the stator winding additionally in order to get radiant out and then the 1 Ohm value is preferred.

Rotor:
The main concern is to get your baby running with the modified armature.


Please understand that we are still in the state of research and we do not have a final instructable - but fortunately we have a superiour instructor . We are apprentices in matters of creation and it's properties.That burdens you as well to learn a lot by yourself and of course you will get help. If you have not done it already I ask you kindly to read the thread from the beginning. Lots of knowledge there you will need urgently. Most of us did it before.

BTW: You have one stator left you will not use so you can check it for how the stator poles are attached to the housing.
rgds JohnS

Hello John,

Great advice there to Glen!!

Yes Glen, as John wrote, is better to leave your stators as they are...then test your modified Asymmetric Armature...that is a main and prime step for you to do...

I was writing my thoughts as to run a 5 KW Generator Head (like you have written your purpose was)...however, starting from the armature core is the way to do it...as it will lead you to further great developments of the rest of components.

Great advice John Stone!!...Many thanks!


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[Lightworker1]

Hello Lightworker,

Now that video and its tests are great and enough for me...as for many here (Like John Stone) that know the potential behind this technology...therefore, we do not need to go into further details...

However, life is not that simple...as there are always the "Conservative Tea Party"... ...that we have to "please"...and unfortunately they want MORE proof...(they will always ask for more, no matter what You do...lol)

So, before They do ask you...I will do it...since I know their requests...

1- You are missing to Load the Output (even with a high ohms resistor or an incandescent small light bulb) and measure Out Amps.
2- In the Second Video part... I will love if you could measure the mechanical strength on shaft...with anything...even a couple of small pieces of wood...trying to stall it...while measuring Temperature and RPM's...Then do same mechanical test for Original...
4- Take Original to the same Input you add to asymmetric...when it Max RPM's it rendered (above Factory spec's, like 25,000)

Have some water spray near to turn off the smoke Original will produce...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello Ufopolitics it goes without saying that real working members of the forum do all their work in their spare time, with financial investment from their own pockets (which is not easy). Since TIME & MONEY for most us is in short supply, each project can only go so far. Our goal or the summit of this R&D is Over-Unity and way we do here is the true open source model. Here no market-based-institutions (including Siemens) have any business. Each one us (real experimental members) within his or her scope does best in the shortest possible time to reach the summit. When we collectively work together harmoniously this R&D Power increases almost infinitly. For those arm-chair members who only criticise others should consider carrying out procedures of their choice experimentally and report their finding. I hope this helps.
Thanks Brother for all the help as I am just new comer.

Warmest regards
Lightworker

[Lightworker1]

Oh NO... !!

The Tea Party is starting to arrive!!...

@Prompt: You will NEVER be able to fit the whole winding length and gauge of five coils wound symmetrically to 5 poles...into just two Coils of the same embodiment to two poles, Prompt...please, use a bit of common sense!!

This Motor comes originally with like 33 gauge, and like 70 turns per coil...
5 X 70=350 Turns for two poles...??!!...

You guys are so desperate to jump to criticize...that do not even stop to "engage" Brain with fingers...

But is ok...at this stage of this thread...we can take it...


Regards Bro...


Ufopolitics

Thanks Brother for all the help.

Warmest regards
Lightworker

[Lightworker1]

Hi All

Just a tip on working out the overall length of the case for a converted motor. This may seem obvious, but previously I was taking lots of measurements to work it out and doing a drawing.

Just assemble the converted rotor with the 2 brush end-plates onto the shaft. Make sure the brushes are touching the commutator in the correct area, that there is some end-float and the end-plates are parallel.

Then measure the distance in-between the shoulders of the end plates - done.

Thanks for Tip John_g

Warmest regards

[Lightworker1]

@lightworker1
Great vid, thanks very much

@ all
My humble opinion (just that)
How can be compared the efficiency or the behavior of a new kind of machine made with parts of two ?
Suppose you dismantle two same chairs, and with parts from them you make a table. . . is more efficient the table than any of the chairs ?

So. . . does it matters if the new asymmetric machine consumes more or less amperage or goes at a higher RPM than the original motor, or has a higher torque ?
IMHO: NOT AT ALL ! as far as the new machine DELIVERS not only work in a shaft, but also a part of the electric input, which makes it a different kind of machine.
Observers, have a tendency to fix the view on a tree and forget to see the whole forest. What we are treating here is an animal of a new species, no mater if it has four legs, and eats grass, there´s no point to compare a mole with a cow.

Some experimenter here, have made their machines from scratch, how are them to be compared with ? where do you get a fiberglass stator or a timeless machine ? I think they don´t have them at Radio Shack ! (not yet )

My point is that it would be more productive,to pay attention to the possible improvement of every machine built, comparing between themselves, or for instance, comparing the different mod builds of the RS (and similar), number of turns per coil-diam, strength of magnet stators- winded stators etc. . .there´s a whole field of experimentation and improvement here, I would not spend my time any more arguing at futile arguments.

I don´t give a Sh if Siemens or Bosch sells good motors, as no one of them builds asymmetric machines. . . when they´ll do it, we´ll be able to compare.

Cheers
Alvaro

Thanks my friend Alvaro
I personally will be doing more tests including load measurements in my next experimental project of asymmetric goldmine motor.
The details of my road map is in the reply to John Stones message:

http://www.energeticforum.com/214333-post2498.html

The way I look is that for a given model of a symmetric motor we only do can do certain tests since the hardware may have its own limits. For example, my RS 5 Pole motor in the video is already starting to show its age, i.e. wearing out its shaft bearings etc even though I lubricated them. We must NOT forget, Ufopolitics gave this idea to work on this hobby or toy motor to get our feet wet. We all know it is pretty delicate motor. However the goal of working with this motor was to learn how to make your own Asymmetric motor with two commutators and have experience in winding an armature. I have never before wound an armature of motor. However, when I was 14 years old, I did wind a transformer with input 220VAC and output 6VAC made out of florescent tube light magnetic blast shims. At about same time I saw some guy winding a stator of 10 HP+ induction motor. So that was that. As we collectively go forward our asymmetric motors are going to get better and better.
Lets look at some history how to make a successful device.
Between 1964 and 1968, RCA was working on the liquid crystal display devices (LCD). They did not come with any useful devices, why? Because their goals were very lofty, among them TV screens hanging on the wall. Furthermore in 60s they did have electronics to handle display materix. In those days only demo models were just crude black and white devices such as a square segment or 7 segment numeric display that could be turned on of off with an electric field. Finally Japanese took over the thing and they first commercially came up with the simplest devices such as NUMERIC DISPLAY for the 4 Function Calculator. With that experience behind them, they moved onto B&K alpha-numeric displays. I think 90s first color screens started showing up.
So I believe, we are going on a correct trajectory by working with Ufopolitics on these projects.

Now just for thought consider self-running device of Tariel Kapanadze overunity motor 02 free energy

Tariel Kapanadze overunity motor 02 free energy - YouTube

Well what will be the efficency that machine as it is self-running. I guess one would eventully service the hardware for the worn parts as it run forever if anyone wanted and without any input power. Only thing Kapanadze do to start his motor is to use small PP9 9V battery.

Very best wishes to all the hard working members

Warmest regards
Lightworker

[Lightworker1]

I do not refer to those who want to have imediate proof of OU but to those who want to learn the art.

As most of us are not able or have no funds in order to take true scientific measurements I suggest the following procedure starting with the notion that most of us buy 2 identical motors before mod. In other words: let's envision the wood beside the tree focussed to.

A: Measurements at original motor(s)
A1: Without load:

• Operate the motor at different voltages (step of 1 Volt)
• Take Measurements at each step: Volt / Amp / rpm

A2: Including loads

• Same but with 2 different loads like a fan or airscrew, motor generator with known resistive load ...... We get plenty of adapters in hobby sector

Option:
O1: Do all measurement series for 3 times in order to know your precision. The average will be much closeer to the truth than a single measurement.
O2: Add temperature but you need to wait for settling 5 min. minimum. So it is advisable to do it at special points like with load but at half rpm measured when idling or at point of max effitiency

B: Measurements at modified motor - ignoring generator option
B1: Without load

• Operate the motor at same Volt, Amps, rpm like at A and take the rest of the two values i.e. adjust for same rpm and measure Amp and Volt .....

B2:Including loads

• Apply the very same fan(s) / aircrew(s)... like before and take measurements like B1. The environment like motor holder ... shall be the very same.

Draw useful graphs in order to understand the clue and characteristic properties we plan to grow up.
Generate power graphs. Find the point of max effitiency, compare, learn, look ahead, plan next....
It will not be possible or useful to take futher measurements for all variants we haven up to now but decide in what area (setup, rpm ....) you plan to focus next.

C: Measurements at modified motor including generator option
i.e. depending on your results obove
C1:

• Load as before but adding different setups at generator side. Does it support the motor section by reducing amps or adding rpms .....

C2:

• ......

Generate graphs and compare, understand differencies, compare power in order to understand. Please undertand that comparing power will not be any proof for now because we need to get the sum of shaft (hot) power and generator (hot) power and HER contribution. Without data gatherd before we will never appreciate HER contribition.
I will do the very same procedure but more sophisticated and partly automated. You will not understend my results coming if you did not dig into matters before.

It seems to be lots of effort but that's science - initially a lot of tedieous work. It's like ascending a mouintain - first of all it is a matter of effort. And sometimes the landscape is not as expected. That does not proof there are no landscapes at all but you need to ascend another mountain in order to get YOUR landscape.
Please understand that is is of minor use if we judge against our current knowledge. We need to take it in account and at same time look forward if there are new facts to be discoverd changing tne landscanpe partly or completely. We obviously are not able to comprehend things by looking to them and teasing them a bit.


I feel the procedure above is the only simple and vialble approach in order to get futher along increasing knowledge. The goal is discovery and not proof (for now)

~o0o~

Remember the great scintist Thor Heyerdahl. In his times every known scientist claimed that old cultures never were able to cross oceans. The popolation stayed there since teh continets drifted apart. The scientists judged against their restricted knowledge - seeing it as ultima ratio, the most possible thought.
Thor did'nt care but built in Peru a raft (Kontiki) out of balsa wood and crossed the Pacific Ocean heading to Asia and only because he rised out of his comfortable university chair and explored a vision. And he did it not once but with RaI, RaII, Tigris .... At every jurney he learned more and more about old cultures, their knowledge, their accomplishments and how modern they were.
In the end he was wrong: the lokal population in Fidji is of Asian origin and not American. But who cares today? He made his way and contributed a major part of knowldge to the community.
Let's change the world as well to not be ruled by restricted knowledge.
JohnS

Hello John I will try these methods in my next project

Many Thanks

Warmest regards
Lightworker

[Lightworker1]

Hello to all,

Like I wrote before I am extremely busy, however, I am also busy constructing the FINAL TESTING...
There WILL NOT BE another 3000 Posts before I present My Set Up...
My Intentions are NOT to argue here anymore with anyone...as it will be just a matter of time to prove beyond doubt this Technology WILL turn a Symmetric Generator INSTEAD of a stinking, farting,little one cylinder gas engine...
I am entirely committed to build this Asymmetric Prime Mover in excellent and robust ways...to put -finally- behind, the obsolete Gas Prime Mover Story Teller...

I have an "untouched" Original P56 Imperial Motor...that I will connect-couple to Generator...so all see that it will NOT turn it with same feed...as Symmetric design.

I will show the inner construction in detail of this conversion, as why I have chosen this Motor...

You guys building and testing other models are doing a great work...please do not get disturbed by the "Audience Inquiries/Opinions"...keep going...

So Prompt...the Brushed Motors are dying?

Check out this One...

[IMG][/IMG]

EV Source - NetGain WarP 11 Electric Motor


Regards


Ufopolitics

Good Luck my Brother

Warmest regards

[JohnStone]

...I would greatly appreciate you having a look at it and giving me your strongest criticism. ....

Hi DadHav,
In short. You conducted some well funded tests and your conclusions were based on current knowledge. I do not know what winding scheme you used. Was that the basic argument you had? At that time I was a neby in Ufo motors. But I vote all following discussions were a matter of misunderstandings and wrong time wrong place....
We believe to be rationally controlled beings but we are not and if we do not account for that reality we fall in every pit coming along. And if two or more persons become infected we get arguing up to war and worse. Vicious circles are made of this material. The good news is that every contributor can die it out by refusing contribution. It is known that at every community the square root of 10% of the members (say 3.3 persons of 100) in a comminity gouvern the mode it lives in positive and negative.
I myself am very supicious as well and turn every fact around in order to find the real truth behind the facts coming along. From time to time I find a step and go further.
BTW: I do not agree with Ufo regarding torque measurements - remember the discussion some month ago. But I accept to be a guest in his thread like a guest in his living room and there is no reason to argue about torque measurements. I accept that those basic discussions might deviate from the ultimate goal.
DadHav, some "contributors" , (not you) misunderstand the location (Ufos living room) and dare to float up again and again in order to not contribute but criticize and if we analyse their motives we turn towards important tasks.
rgds John

[JohnStone]

.... I will try these methods in my next project....

You are welcome.If you come up with new date we can discuss what graphs to generate and how to interpret, compare them.
It is important to get the data first and valuate later on. If 10% are valuable only we can go the next step.
JohnS

[GlenWV]

Hello John,

Great advice there to Glen!!

Yes Glen, as John wrote, is better to leave your stators as they are...then test your modified Asymmetric Armature...that is a main and prime step for you to do...

I was writing my thoughts as to run a 5 KW Generator Head (like you have written your purpose was)...however, starting from the armature core is the way to do it...as it will lead you to further great developments of the rest of components.

Great advice John Stone!!...Many thanks!


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

@John Stone & Mr. UFOPolitics:

Thank you both for responding to my post. I appreciate it.

I removed the windings from the first armature yesterday and plan on digging into the second unit this coming weekend.

It looks like the brush holder end of the second motor will fit nicely on the first motor, requiring no case modifications. I'll give Peerless a call and see if a 4 position brush holder assembly is available. (That would be cool.)

I have 3 different coil setups driven by a UFO oscillator that have been tested by powering CFLs and charging batteries. Also, JS has offered great advice on building a substantial FET bank and driver setup over on the other list. (I'm paying close attention to that!)

Will report results as we progress.

Thanks again,

glen