Modifying Motors/Generators

[Guest]

The fan motor is up and running with a 12V battery in parallel
with the recovery capacitor, and the run coil emitter leading to
the transistor hooked to a 1a 1kv rectifier going back to the
same capacitor for collecting bEMF.

Magnetism in a coil is equal to magnetism in a magnet. The difference
is coils limit energy by transducing current into heat. When the
source of energy is reactive power, less is consumed from the source.

Harnessing reactive power into a motor coil when removing the supply
should then turn the rotor without loading the system to nearly the
same extent.

Video: [ Fan Motor Generator ]

[mbrownn]

I think we are off topic for this thread but....

The topic under discussion is easily misunderstood. So, if you don't understand what I am trying to say here, that is fine. It is entirely possible I am also wrong. The analogy I use, whether good or bad, is that of a bell. (Think big, Liberty Bell, type of bell) The parallel is Joe Newman's, 5000 pound coil of copper wire. Air core means no iron losses. Heavy gauge wire means low resistance losses. Getting low loss capacitors is a breeze, in comparison.

Key points

Now, strike the bell. Momentarily charge the circuit. This could mean open the tank circuit and charge the capacitor to a desired potential. When you close the switch, the circuit begins to "ring".

And there is a gain in this ring

So, you can hear the bell toll from miles away and it vibrates for several seconds and gradually becomes softer and quieter until you can't hear it any longer. The current flows back and forth in the tank circuit until the (minor) losses mount up and the current decreases to zero.

Now for the questions.

Is there energy in the sound waves? Is there energy in the magnetic field?

Once the magnetic field acts on iron then energy is released in a mechanical form or if the field is varying a current is produced in a conductor.

My conclusion is this. Relative to the "BIG" amount of energy in the bell itself or the coil system itself, the "other" components of the system are very, very small. This means they are very hard to measure. The closer and more connected the system is to the measuring system, the more they interact. This interaction has its own consequence that are "on top of" the more intrinsic or inherent losses and characteristics.

All this makes it very hard to determine, either practically or theoretically whether there is actual energy in a magnetic field. But, you can dip your paddle in the stream, so to speak. Put a coil in the magnetic field and since it is changing you will be able to measure an EMF or voltage. If you also allow a current to flow (and you will, if you do any measuring of the EMF) then you will have some (small) additional losses to the BIG part of the system and a gain in energy in the SMALL part of the system.

In one of Don Smith's experiments he has one transmitter tank circuit surrounded by four identical receiver tank circuits. They are all constructed to resonate at the same frequency. Does he get four times the energy out than in? Is it OU? Go read about it and build an experiment. It is an experiment I have not done, yet.

It seems far from clear what is the truth.

Keep building and let's prove our theories to be practical in the real world. Teach us how to do it, too. So the knowledge will not be suppressed.[/QUOTE]

I hear what you are saying


Now to get more on topic. I tried a modification on a Permanent magnet motor and a Universal motor several months ago. I operated them in a resonant tank circuit of sorts using an external commutator on the shaft. The circuit is here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post193825

On the simulator a clear overunity is shown by the gain in energy in the coil of the motor. On my tests the result was less clear as I had reduced torque but a massive increase in heat. I suspect If I could have got a measurement of the total heat output that there may have been a gain of energy but I don't have the equipment to prove it. It uses bipolar switching to isolate the coil and redirect the current in the way we want. Effectively the input current is used twice.

My next point is, I was using low efficiency motors which do generate a lot of heat because of eddy currents etc. (Tesla did say putting iron in a motor was a waste of energy)

The modification is a commutator mounted on the output shaft with six brushes and a capacitor with two diodes. A simple mod.

I have called this circuit in the past a possible lockridge motor circuit but I now call it a simplified Gray circuit although it has a lot in common with Tesla.

If someone could test this on a higher efficiency motor which is not prone to a lot of losses the result may be better. Some feedback would be nice but I won't be on line for a few days.

[Guest]

This updated system shows close similarity to what was previously discussed in that
it will accelerate upon loading the output with the battery.

Although not shown in the video, there is a definite torque to the spinning
rotor and it seems likely that a beneficial effect could be had through one
or more extra generator coils.

What this demonstrates is the recovery being disconnected
by use of the yellow clamp. Eventually through running the system the
battery will register upwards of 400V on the meter,
then return to normal later...

[ Fan Motor Regenerator ]

[penno64]

Hi Geotron,

Great couple of videos.

What are you switching with? reed or coil?

Regards, Penno

[Turion]

Interesting ideas guys.
You should check out this thread as well as UFO's thread for ideas on motor modifications as well. When you combine the things we all already know, we are there!!
Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor

[Guest]

Hi Penno, the switching is done by a reed switch positioned to
pulse the rotor when it is nearly about to cog to the next position.
The gate of the transistor is connected through a 10k potentiometer
to the anode of the recovery capacitor, although this connection may be
better suited at the input to the motor winding.

[penno64]

Thanks geotron.

About to set it up and give it a whirl.

Regards, Penno

[Guest]

additional info

[wantomake]

Can any brushless hub be used

Geotron

Great pics and project ! I have two 12 inch (large) brushless dc hub wheels off a
older wheelchair and these things produce high amps with just a spin of the hand. Could one be rewired to do the same as you are.
I have already built the Imhotep unit that uses a pc modified fan, so i understand a little of this does. But I'm still learning.

[Guest]

Hi wantomake, thanks for your interest - and I'd like to thank Farmhand for his
contribution that spurred all of this to begin with.

At this point what I believe needs to be accomplished is finding the truth about what
exactly is occurring with this miniature DC fan motor circuit as it is demonstrated.

Certain things are unexplicable about it, including for what reason the recovery
capacitor anode, when touched to the source battery will increase the motor torque
without even being in a complete circuit as it is shown in the video. Again, the
recovery capacitor can be isolated from the cathode of the source battery and when
its anode is connected to the anode of the battery it speeds up the motor! This is
my own result and still needs corroboration.

This same effect cannot be obtained with a different battery or a resistor.

It may be that your chair wheel motors would be better suited for a Ed Gray system,
as it is a well established technology. The circuits as shown by the diagrams of
Mr. John Bedini and others do indeed operate correctly, even when modified to switch
with the use of a silicon controlled rectifier in place of a mechanical commutator.

It may also be that these two motor technologies, along with regenerative acceleration
could be eventually combined into a hybrid.

[Malinany]

Every parent must protect their cell phone--particularly from situations involving water. Never underestimate the effect liquid can have on electronics. Each scenario could have been avoided had I used a cell phone holder--specifically one of the waterproof varieties.

[penno64]

Hey Geotron,

Wet weather Parramatta way gave time to play.

Pics and video included

Feeling its just another Bedini.

Iphone video does not show the RADIANT spike from coil but
watch the scope shot in the vid.

Regards, Penno

Fan Regen Rep - YouTube

[Guest]

Hi Penno, nice fan setup!

That is an interesting waveform... pulsing through the stator with the
three generator coils in series. Were you able to observe an acceleration
effect with the source battery (+) connected to the (+) of the recovery?
The cathode was not needed to get it to work; my previous video showed both
the anode and cathode of the recovery connected back to the battery producing
a greater rpm, then later in an experiment the cathode was disconnected and
it worked to produce an equal acceleration effect as before.

If this will produce a greater torque than can be accounted for, perhaps
an upper level of rotor magnets could be added to the fan and spun next to
a generator coil.

[Farmhand]

prochiro you are no longer welcome to post in any of my threads your abuse is
unacceptable, please remove the abusive post as well.

I'm about to start copying and saving all the abuse so I can produce it on demand.

Goodbye

[Farmhand]

TO those who have kept at this thread, I have been quite unwell lately and have
had to restrict the type of things I do, I am on the mend though so I will begin
by reading all the posts in this thread to try to catch up. I thought I had some
new things to add but I'll read the thread and watch the video's first, you guys
have likely discovered the same things as me and then some more.

A quick glance shows some interesting posts.

Cheers