Use for the Tesla Switch

[Murlin]

commutator TS

I have been trying different things with my commutator.

Very slight charging gains. But I only run it about an hr at a time.

What I don't understand is, if it takes 14 volts to charge the battery, why is the battery voltage increasing with 2.5 volts across the bridge? wierd....


I am seeing the same thing everyone else is though. When you apply a load, you get no charging.

Remove the load and it charges. With or without the caps yields same results. So I have not been able to fire the caps into the load or the battery yet.

No Aether magic happening as far as I can tell.

I am making some torrid coils to experiment with.

regards,

Murlin

[Matthew Jones]

And that would be 2hz, or 4 hz? I'm saying I think that the frequency is on a side basis, so that would be 2 hz, because side A fired 2 times in that one second. Pulse width = 250 ms on, 250 ms off (ignoring duty cycle). Have we reached consensus?

If you fire both sides, in 1 seconds time, you are running at 1 hertz.

That is how AC is measured, might as well be the way it is. AC "pushes and pulls" (A complete oscillation) 60 times a second.

Thats how I measure mine anyway.

Matt

[ldissing]

If you fire both sides, in 1 seconds time, you are running at 1 hertz.

That is how AC is measured, might as well be the way it is. AC "pushes and pulls" (A complete oscillation) 60 times a second.

Thats how I measure mine anyway.

Matt

So, in my example, you are saying it is 2 Hz, yes?

Leroy

[Bit's-n-Bytes]

So, in my example, you are saying it is 2 Hz, yes?

Leroy

Here is the definition;
1 Hz means that an event repeats once per second.

That said, Matt is right to classiify the "push" "pull" as an "Event". If your classification is to complete 2 "push" "pull" events into a second, then 2Hz is accurate.

Bit's

[ldissing]

Here is the definition;
1 Hz means that an event repeats once per second.

That said, Matt is right to classiify the "push" "pull" as an "Event". If your classification is to complete 2 "push" "pull" events into a second, then 2Hz is accurate.

Bit's

Great, now we can all speak same language...as if we really needed another definition. I should probably say....I now know what I'm talking about.

In regards to loads for the TS....

For charging....not running a "big" load.

If, you have 18V - 14V (for the batteries to charge at all), then the load must not consume more than 4V. The only way for this to occur as far as I can tell, it to have a bulb that will vary it's impedance and allow no more than X amount of current through it. So, if you have a 3.2-3.8V bulb, that allows 20ma of current, then you could put a very small resistor in series with it to get...4V. In other words, 4V - 3.8V = .2V. Then the resistor in series would be .2 / .020amps would be 10 ohms to make up that other .2V.

I was using 6V bulbs at 25ma and the batteries just sat there with duty cycles of .5Hz to 2Hz. So, I switched back to 3.2-3.8V bulbs at 1HZ 20% duty cycle and my batteries are increasing in voltage although slowly. The last two hours have produced an increase of .02V, which is pretty darn small, but it is a gain, not a loss and not just sitting there either.

It would be interesting tp discharg just one of the batteries to 12V or something and then hook it back up and see what happens, which I will try to do today. If the battery charged faster with little charge charge left in it, then that would be a telling story.

Leroy

[ldissing]

I have been trying different things with my commutator.

Very slight charging gains. But I only run it about an hr at a time.

What I don't understand is, if it takes 14 volts to charge the battery, why is the battery voltage increasing with 2.5 volts across the bridge? wierd....


I am seeing the same thing everyone else is though. When you apply a load, you get no charging.

Remove the load and it charges. With or without the caps yields same results. So I have not been able to fire the caps into the load or the battery yet.

No Aether magic happening as far as I can tell.

I am making some torrid coils to experiment with.

regards,

Murlin

If you have 18V to play with and only 2.5 across the bridge, then 18V - 2.5V = 15.5V left. Then you have some diode drops, but you have 1.5V for diode drops (typical drops are 0.7V depending on the diodes) 0.7*2 = 1.4V and you would still have 14.1V to charge the battery....at least this is the way I see it....for now.

Leroy

P.S. I think you need to measure where JB indicated to see how much is actually over the battery, not the bridge.

[Murlin]

1 farad caps

One thing I forgot to mention about the .5 farad cap banks.

Although the voltage across the bridge was 2.5 volts @ 155HZ, the caps were charging abnormally.

On one side of the load, both caps would charge up to about 4.6 volts.
On the other side of the load one cap would charge to 2.8 and the other cap would charge to .6 volts.

But it made no difference whether the caps were in or out of the loop as far as charging or or output voltage.

If I disconnected the load, my commutator would charge @ about .01 every 30 seconds or so. I had produced up .5 volts in under an hour on all but one battery.

That battery that didn't charge did not loose any or gain any.

I was still using a 12 volt light for the load so perhaps any charging potential was lost. I need to do what leroy says and rig a 2 volt bulb for the load.

There was some heat generated from the light, I don't know how many amps the load was producing....waiting on an amp meter...

regards,
Murlin

[Murlin]

P.S. I think you need to measure where JB indicated to see how much is actually over the battery, not the bridge.

could you point me to that post please

M

[ldissing]

could you point me to that post please

M

He did not say it in so many words, but here is the url.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/4315d1260495297-use-tesla-switch-charg2.jpg

Leroy

[ldissing]

One thing I forgot to mention about the .5 farad cap banks.

Although the voltage across the bridge was 2.5 volts @ 155HZ, the caps were charging abnormally.

On one side of the load, both caps would charge up to about 4.6 volts.
On the other side of the load one cap would charge to 2.8 and the other cap would charge to .6 volts.

But it made no difference whether the caps were in or out of the loop as far as charging or or output voltage.

If I disconnected the load, my commutator would charge @ about .01 every 30 seconds or so. I had produced up .5 volts in under an hour on all but one battery.

That battery that didn't charge did not loose any or gain any.

I was still using a 12 volt light for the load so perhaps any charging potential was lost. I need to do what leroy says and rig a 2 volt bulb for the load.

There was some heat generated from the light, I don't know how many amps the load was producing....waiting on an amp meter...

regards,
Murlin

If you are trying to charge, I'd go with a smaller voltage load, but that is just my interpretation of what JB has said. And, I said a 4V bulb, not a 2V bulb, FYI.

Leroy

[Murlin]

If you are trying to charge, I'd go with a smaller voltage load, but that is just my interpretation of what JB has said. And, I said a 4V bulb, not a 2V bulb, FYI.

Leroy

oops my bad. you did say 4V.

As per either charging or running a load:

It is my intention to use a mechanical commutated TS powered by
a Steorn Motor and do both...

regards,

Murlin

[ldissing]

oops my bad. you did say 4V.

As per either charging or running a load:

It is my intention to use a mechanical commutated TS powered by
a Steorn Motor and do both...

regards,

Murlin

My comment and suggestion was only in trying to get batteries to charge. Running a load is up for grabs on voltage, but you should be able to use most if not all of the available potential.

Leroy

[blackchisel97]

Mueller Report

There is something interesting going on with this 3 battery setup. I'm using 3 SLABs, 12V 7.2Ah each. Two in series pulsed by 555/H11D3/tranny to the positive of third battery. In negative branch I have 12V5W bulb in series with 300T AWG#26 on 2" toroid. Secondary 30T has grain bulb across. Starting voltage was 25.02V and 12.67V. 5W bulb was glowing orange and grain bulb as well. Battery started to climb slow and it is on 13.31V after 1hr. 24V battery(25.2V measured) dropped 0.4V on the beginning but now she bounced back to 25.1V. 5W bulb doesn't glow anymore, only grain does. I can hear toroid buzzing. It seems that internal impedance of 12V battery gets higher. There is less current (judging by the bulb) but battery is still gaining, 0.01V per 15min. My oscillator runs approx. 400 -500Hz. Transistor is barely warm, 45 deg C. Since I started writing this post battery gained another 0.02V.
Last night I tried other SLAB and charging virtually stopped at 12.90 after an hour. This morning I turned circuit on and bulb was almost fully lit at first. That was one of the "poor" batteries I had problem getting over 13V with radiant before.
I'll disconnect after a while and see how much actual charge she is holding. Then, I'll rotate batteries after letting them rest. I want to try low switching after and see the difference. This is fun, indeed.

Damn! My 9V powered oscillator battery was weak and causing this confusion. Sorry guys, too much going on in my life at the moment.



Vtech

[John_K]

Tesla Switch

I did a simple experiment last night to help me understand how the TS works.

It was based on the theory that Ronald Brandt had one of these in a car and drove all around town and the batteries never went dead. I also kept in mind that Ron probably drove the car for a few miles, let the batteries rest while he did what he had to do and then drove the car home again - a fairly typical use of a car. It's also possible that while car was not being driven, the batteries were being re-charged by substituting the heavy load that ran the car by a smaller load (e.g. a tail light) to get one bank to charge without running down the other bank.

Back to the experiment. All I did was converted my 3 battery test setup into a 4 battery test setup by adding another 12V battery in parallel with the 3rd battery. I used a small 24V DC motor as the load, which obviously ran at half the RPM. This load was only 200mA. The 4th battery was already at 13V, but the 3rd battery was only at 10.5V. When I turned the 400Hz oscillator on, the 12V bank settled at ~12.5 and started charging. The 24V bank settled at ~25.8V with the switch running.

I let it run overnight and this morning the 12V bank was at 14.38V, but also the 24V bank had dropped to ~22.5V and of course the motor was running a little slower. I let both banks rest for 15 minutes - the 24V bank bounced back up to 23.8V and the 12V bank settled down to ~13.7V. I'll let the batteries rest for the day and switch the banks over when I get home from work.

Although the experiment did not truly replicate Brandt's "driving conditions", it did prove that the batteries need time to charge and time to rest before loading them. What it did also prove was that I could run a 200mA load and fully charge an identical bank of batteries before the 24V bank was dead, that has to be a COP>1 doesn't it?

My point is that you can't expect to run a large load for a long time AND charge the batteries at the same time or the 24V bank will die pretty quickly. You can get away with running the large load which will charge the 12V bank at the same time, but not for long before cells start dying. If you want the 12V bank to charge the load must be small enough to get the 12V bank to charge, but not kill the 24V bank in the process.

In the end it comes down to three things - how often you switch the banks, how much power you want to take out of the system (to do work) and how long will you let the batteries rest.

I think it's too much to expect to have a system that will supply continuous power AND keep the batteries charged. You can trick nature for a little while, but she will soon catch on and symmetrically regauge everything again to ruin your party. I think the idea is to trick nature and stop before she catches on, then trick her again.

Just my thoughts and conclusions.

John K.

[ldissing]

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/4317d1260500570t-use-tesla-switch-spike1.jpg

@JB.

I have hooked my scope up across the negatives of the batteries. There is a load on each side, right now, a 3.0V diode + 100 ohms in series which should max out at 4.5V (15ma current). I'm running at 0.5 (1/2) hz.

The waveform you have drawn looks very similar to mine, although, the voltage is not as high as yours. The positive side is only around 7 volts, but jumps up to 10V in a spike sometimes, other times it is just a hump...spike is like you've drawn. The negative side does not have the spike as yours does but it is at -10V all the time.

At a 50% duty cycle, or 100% depending on how you define it...i.e. no delay, the spikes seem to go away, but with 10% delay up to 90% delay, I do see the spikes.

Any advice for me?

Thanks,

Leroy

P.S. I tried running a led without the resistor and burned them up, so I needed a little more voltage sucked out of there, i.e. the resistors.