No more hiding on the internet

[Nadda]

That's another kind of ism. It's the ugly, totalitarian side of a brave new world, where the illusion of choice keeps the population thinking everything's good, when it isn't.

What illusion? You had the choice not to participate and you infact Chose not to. Good job choosing not to, i agree they dont have any right to know your personal information.

But in reality comparing democrats to republicans is like comparing tweedledee to tweedledum. Oh there are a few cosmetic differences but the real power elite who work quietly away from the public spotlight will not allow any major differences on policies that concern them.
For example Bush 1 said “read my lips no new taxes” and of course then went out and raised taxes. boo, hiss. We got rid of him and got Clinton, who of course raised taxes. So we went back to a “conservative” republican with Bush 2 whereupon he proceeded to spent money like a drunken democrat. And now we have Obama who is spending money like there is no tomorrow. Notice a pattern here? Nothing is allowed to change. Ditto for all the wars we have been fighting.

This illusion of choice i agree with, but i dont think it represents the capitalist system. I think it represents the corrupt elitist and politicans who abuse the democratic system.

I dont think communism is inherently evil or bad either. Its a different way of life in which the government maintains daily life instead of seperate corporate entities. Either way both have specific people with specific power, combined with human nature of greed it unfortunatly seems to bring corruption.

The leaders of the Communist Party of China are aware that there are serious problems with political corruption within China and with maintaining the trust of the Chinese people because of it. However, attempts made in closed-door sessions at the Fourth Plenary Session of the 17th Communist Party of China's Central Committee in September 2009 to grapple with these problems produced inconclusive results, although a directive which requires disclosure of investments and property holdings by party and governmental officials was passed.[23]

Corruption isnt selective.

[Mad Scientist]

I have to wonder though, why people are still so suspect of Obama's intentions when I don't see any evidence in my day to day life that he is some kind of dictator.

For example has anyone experienced:
-Their grandmother was euthanized against her will and they are worried about this happening to them

Well there is that provision in Obama care. Yes I know they removed it, but then added it back, only to be removed it again , and last I heard I believe it is back.

-They are in a concentration camp or know someone who is

Well FEMA does have a bunch of concentration camp scattered all over the country. Oh yes excuse me they are called “relocation camps” and they are there for natural disasters and emergencies. Yet those who have tried to check them out find that they are fenced in with tall fences all-round with barbed wire on top positioned in such a way that would keep someone in. Looking for all the world like a prison. Now you would think that FEMA would love to show off their emergency relief centers, but strangely that is not the case, as no one is allowed inside to look around. Why would they be afraid to show us what's inside?

-Their neighbor who was speaking ill about the government has disappeared off the face of the earth

How about PFC Bradley Manning while he didn’t total disappear off the face of the earth they have done the next best thing for him. He has been held in solitary confinement for 5 months since releasing files to Wikileaks. But while he is being held in a manner reserved for only the most hardened criminals he has yet to be charged with a crime. What happened to due process and a speedy trial? I guess that is a leftover relic from the constitution and obviously the power-that-be have decided that it no longer relevant.

-There is only one brand of anything available at any store and it is not organic and it is generic

We're not quite there yet but they are working on it. With the new food safely bill anything that is not mass produced by a closely regulated mega-companies will not be allowed. And with the "correct" interpretation of the law you could be prohibited from growing tomato’s in your backyard, simply because you could not afford to get all the “proper” paperwork to do so legally. Plus you might be growing healthy non-genetically altered food. How can they kill you off if you are not eating their poisoned food?

-Government officials come to your home and place of business intimidating people and demanding money

What about those diary farmers who have the gall to sell raw milk and non-pasteurized dairy products to people that want organic food that hasn’t had all the nutritional value of cooked out?
Or what about those selling herbal remedies? The ones that the FDA has gone into and confiscated the stock because there was a reference that they might help cure a medical problem.

-You can not call on the police to help you during crime

I can’t recall the name of the city but there is a town in California that is doing just that. The police will no longer respond to minor crime, their main job now is to write tickets and to raise money for the town.


Hi I'm from the government and I'm here to help you!

[future pather]

MS,

I guess I'm saying people are concerned about what might happen due to such things that you posted about and the no more hiding on the internet thing . . . but I am not seeing any personal stories here showing that these concerns of misuse of such situations are becoming reality in our lives.

I mean people here at the forum's lives (for an example). And I mean regarding things that Obama has done.

My point being, if Obama is pushing for no hiding on the internet, I would think it was for good reasons because my personal life experience does not reflect Obama misusing his power as president.

Like how people were saying if health care passed we would have people being euthanized against their will . . . and once health care passed I never heard anyone worried about that happening to them nor did I find any reason in my life to worry about it.

I guess I'm saying that I think if Obama wanted to be a dictator he could be doing a MUCH better job at it lol.

[Kevin]

Check out the link in this thread --- http://www.energeticforum.com/genera...-you-seen.html

[noises]

I even object to the proposed name. Trusted Identity? What, so if you don't have one of these, you're not trustworthy? That's the implication.

To me it sounds a lot like that tired old argument for increased surveillance, "if you've got nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." The implication there is, if I don't consent to an invasion of my privacy, I am hiding something. So the assumption is, I'm guilty of hiding something if I don't like being watched or having my name and address taken 'for your records.' Excuse me, assumed guilt? What happened to INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY? Isn't that how we do things by law? Doesn't the burden of proof rest with the accuser, and not the accused?

So then, If I live in the US and choose refuse to sign up for a trusted identity, what, it's assumed I'm guilty of fraud, or identity theft, or an even more vague accusation, 'having something to hide,' and therefore, I'm not to be trusted? Well that's an offensive accusation.

And what comes next, without even being able to demand that accusation be heard in common law court, and that I be able to stand and face the person or persons accusing me of this, that I just roll over and accept I can't buy this product or use that service because I've been labeled untrustworthy merely for valuing my right to privacy?

This trusted identity thing has holes in it you could drive a truck through. I just hope people realise it and stop it before it gets started.

[life4living]

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand that.

I'm seriously saying I do not experience those things currently in the US.

I'm sorry if you are saying you do in UK. Although Obama is not president of the UK, I would be interested in hearing about one of your personal experiences of those things to learn what it is like for you.

Jessica, when a little girl is systematically abused, and the judiciary sections her mother and murders her uncle in order to cover it up, I take it personally - very personally

I'm not sure why you are looking for examples from forum members whose

...grandmother was euthanized against her will and they are worried about this happening to them

But Mad Scientist has given you some factual examples of these sort of things happening in your good 'ol US of A, just as they are in the UK and elsewhere in the world.

I've come across a few of your posts in various threads, and at the risk of upsetting you I have to say that I believe you need to confront your fears about seeing what is actually going on. Then, instead of denying it to all and sundry as you do, you might get with the program and start fighting against it.

[noises]

One of the thing I really like about this forum is the overt tone of respect, and frequently even love, that posters here show for each other and for the regard they show to ideals they each hold dear.

It can be difficult to point out the things in this world that are, shall we say, less than evolved, in a forum of such overall positivity without being the proverbial devil's advocate, or coming across as negative. I get why people here shun negativity. I totally do, and bless you for it, because you truly are creating a better world by doing so.

I think it's important we all make the effort when pointing out the problems we see in the world and talking about them with the intention of informing and resisting, that we look for and talk about the solutions too. I'm morally predisposed towards seeking out injustice and spotlighting some extremely negative issues, but I do so in the hope it gets people thinking, and most importantly, to raise awareness of the fact that there is a better way for us to be.

We don't have to be slaves to government dictators. We don't have to let corporates spread fascism and corruption through our communities. We have a right and an obligation to get up and resist. Especially the most loving and evolved and wise among us. That's the burden of walking in the light, you become an agent for it, which can mean opposing darkness as much as it means loving and spreading harmony and the light.

To those who regard being positive just as highly as I regard liberty, human rights and and natural justice, I put it to you that the most amazing outcomes are possible through spreading awareness of actions of a negative nature, and thereby being able to resist them en masse through peaceful, non-violent means. I, and others, are willing to protest for true freedom, for real social justice for people. People are willing to persue election to congress to fight it, or join a parliament to fight it, or go on the internet and fight it, or volunteer with a rights organisation or charity group to fight it, or use their roles in the workplace to fight it, or seek out careers in law to fight it, or join together in the streets to protest against these increasingly common attacks on the rights of the individual. and that's great that there's people who will do all those things. But it's also great that there are people so focussed on loving acceptance and positive co-creation that they don't want to be involved in a "fight" for anything. I hear you.

As mother Theresa famously said "I must respectfully decline your invitation to protest with you AGAINST this war. However, I will gladly join you on the day you protest FOR peace."

With that sentiment in mind, here's a great piece on the recent DOJ subpoena seeking twitter's complicity in an invasion on the privacy of some of it's customers (including the head of wikileaks and a member of Iceland's government. It shows that while some companies do have the utmost concern and respect for their customer's privacy, others only pay lip service, others do not, And it names them. So if you care about your privacy, you could take a look, see if you're with one of those companies, paying a regular fee for services from them. as a customers you could either write them yourself and express your concerns, or perhaps even just switch to a competitor after telling them why.

if you want to stop corprate fascism and make a stand against companies playing fast and loose with your personal information, vote with your pocketbook/checkbook/wallet/credit card, and starve them of the one thing they do actually care about, money. They'll come around eventually if enough people switch to the competition and tell them why.

[ImBill]

I very much like the nature of your post, Noises. I feel much the same as you but would like to provide my perspective on it a little as well. Please keep in mind that I have little experience in applying what I've learned. For the past couple of years or more, I've been learning all I can about the reality of our lives here on this plane of existence and am on the verge of immersing myself in this process of personal transformation completely. Not that I haven't already dabbled and reached some level of success, but it hasn't been a total immersion yet. One of my most recent learnings has come by way of the book, The Power of Now, so, my thoughts tend to be aligned with what I learned from that book, but also tempered by the myriad other sources I've used to gather information. My intent to be to understand intellectually as much as I can about where I'm headed and how I will know I'm making progress. I've been working on understanding the goal as much as possible.

The point upon which I would raise an objection to your post is about resistance. From what I understand, resistance is futile and harmful, especially if one is coming from a place of misunderstanding or unawareness. When we are confronted with an issue that already exists, it may be better to accept it as part of our reality and work in a positive manner to change it, if we have the ability to change it. I mean, we can pretty plainly see where it's gotten us fighting to effect change. Who is it that we are really fighting? Our self. So, kind of as you allude to, real effective change comes through a rise in awareness, rather than beating someone over their head. Dissemination of information is one of the biggies for creating a rise in awareness.

My advice for those of us who don't like some aspect of the way things are is to give up your resistance to it (if you have any), increase your awareness/knowledge of it, then work for change if you feel compelled to using the dissemination of information to accomplish your goal and what ever other peaceful tools of change you can bring to bear.

We already know that this material plane is a place where the illusion of separateness and duality are in rampant existence. We can't have justice without injustice nor light without dark as long as the majority of us are caught up in the illusion. What good can it do to resist what is? It is only through acceptance that we can see beyond the illusion and determine what right action truly is, IMHO. Us, the government, the predators, the victims, the haters, the lovers, the actions, the inactions, the accepters, the deniers, and everything else is just a portion of all the rest. If you reject/resist any part of it, you are rejecting/resisting your self.

[noises]

Namaste and thanks Bill, for expanding my perspective

You're talking about transcending the illusion, I'm talking about transforming it. (hey, don't anyone use that line in a book, I like it!) I live based on the supposition I've chosen to come here, to diminish my true higher self, and take an active and creative role in this plane. I'm not omnipotent or blessed with perfect logic, but it seems odd that as a higher being I'd choose a lower incarnation (a human) to merely remember what I truly am and get back to being it. I'd be like, but, why not just hang out in this higher plane, with all the cold beers and free pinball, why forget everything I am and be human? I mean, I don't think I'm some higher being in waiting with trainer wheels on, evolving towards grace and love and light, I'm already that being, in a timeless now. The question is, why did I choose to forget that? Why am I here?

I figure the real reasons for that are probably beyond me (in this form,) and so I take it as an article of faith I'm here to do something, to express myself somehow, to add to and expand the universe's awareness of itself by living in it, being aware of it, and being a part of it all at the same time, whith a real purpose. Whatever that purpose is, my only guides towards what it might be are intuition, serendipity and my own moral compass... so I follow them. And the more I follow them, the clearer the signs become. But I completely agree, resist is the wrong word. But it should be a re word. re-form. re-shape. re-imagine. re-make, re-design re-create re-write, re-view, re-distribute (knowledge.) Any one of those would be better.

I trust we're all following our path, and expressing our highest potential. For each individual, of course that's going to be something different. Viva la difference!

[noises]

Homeland Security's laptop seizures: Interview with Rep. Sanchez - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

On a related topic, what do you guys in the US think about the DHS going around detaining people at airports and seizing laptops and phones without warrants or due process? Does that sort of stuff bother you?

That'd really bother me. I think I'd get 'taken out of the picture,' or "shut up,' or 'disappeared' "extraoridinarily renditioned,' if they tried to take my laptop or phone, I'd be too outraged to take it quietly, and would probably be whisked off to some prison or hold center simply for not willingly giving up my right to privacy. They'd no doubt call it resisting something! Now I could end this post here by saying it's a good thing I don't ever plan on traveling to the USA, but that's not much help to people in the USA who's rights are being trampled into the dirt.

The bigger picture of what "they" are trying to do is frightening, even more so when you stop and realise how far along the plan to control and constrain the population has come just in the last 6 months. What happens when they've got all the political activists and civil rights journos locked up, and they come for, oh I don't know, people who believe in and apply the power of conscious co-creation, or people who sell or even just talk up (or post about,) non FDA approved health care options? While you still have a democratic process, get involved and stop this right wing fascist march towards the NWO, because it's happening right now and in another six months, speaking up about it could see you locked away, with everyone who knows being told you were a terrorist and/or a traitor, and your detention in solitary confinement with no visitation rights is in the national interest. Couldn't happen? Tell that to PFC Manning.

[Mad Scientist]

On a related topic, what do you guys in the US think about the DHS going around detaining people at airports and seizing laptops and phones without warrants or due process? Does that sort of stuff bother you?

Yes! And people are complaining but DHS is not listening. They say what they are doing it for our safety to protect us from terrorists. Yet the brain dead “shoe bomber” was escorted around security by a reported CIA agent. He was caught trying to ignite plastic explosive with a match which of course doesn’t work. More recently the equally brain dead “Christmas tree bomber” was allowed by the FBI to try and detonate a fake bomb at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony. We are then told that because of (staged?) events like these we need to submit to even greater security measures. Furthermore just by coincidence they had these full body scanners waiting to be deployed. This of course will protect us from these nasty terrorists, meanwhile we are to ignore that our southern border is wide open to anyone that wants to walk across.

I believe people are beginning to realize that the real terrorists are not always some scruffy guy with a beard and a turban but can just as easily be a well dressed guy in a uniform and that some of the alphabet agencies can actually be far more dangerous because they pretend to working for our safety.

[ImBill]

I've been expressing my concern over the loss of our privacy and the additional costs that we all have to pay for it for 20 or 30 years now. When they started putting cameras in every building and parking lot to stop the tiny minority of the population from stealing stuff instead of addressing the root cause of why people steal, I knew we were going in the wrong direction. We'd rather lock someone up and pay for their room and board for several years than figure out a way to enable them to become self sufficient and a contributing member of society. Some people would actually rather kill them than lock them up. To me, it's just another symptom of our growing collective stupidity and ignorance. You can't really even get on a plane here anymore without having your privacy invaded and being detained, because it makes so much sense to have millions of us waste billions of hours every year to potentially stop a handful of terrorists. Of course, it's useless to point out that we wouldn't have any terrorists anywhere in the world if we treated each other (our self) right.

[noises]

*does that nose touching thing you do in charades when somebody's answer is correct.*

Nailed it/ Personally I knew we were heading in the wrong direction when we decided giving away freedom was a great way to be free. I mean, I get irony. I like Irony. I can laugh at irony, but this?





If they were honest and the signs like these going up everywhere read "please do not wear these items as it stops our facial recognition software from identifying you," it wouldn't be so bad. But no. It's always for some ubiquitous other reason, they try to cover over the fact you're being tracked, tagged and watched by saying it's for your safety.

I'm not buying it.

Just as an aside, guess where that sign's from. A bank? A government installation? Some privately owned place that requires extremely high levels of security? Uh, no, it's at a library in (glorious) Texas, home of free, land of brave.
Surveillance Nation: Austin Library Won't Let You Wear Baseball Caps Because Cameras Can't ID You | Techdirt

[Mad Scientist]

double post

[Mad Scientist]

What if we try putting this terrorist threat into perspective? Let’s say that the shoe and the Christmas tree bombers were actually given working bombs and that they were able to detonate them as they were planning. OK they could have killed a few hundred people and we could add on all those from 911, flight 800, etc. etc. and we will wind up with a substantial number.

Now while that is obviously a tragic waste of life the number killed is insignificant when compared to the number of people killed ever year by the friendly family doctor. Doctors and hospitals due to error, malpractice, the prescription of the wrong drug or drugs with deadly side effects manage to kill around 700,000 of their patients each year. Yet how many consider that to be a problem or are even aware of it?
Yet we told we must be very, very afraid of all those nasty terrorists.