Wikileaks News

[noises]

Wednesday, 18 April 2007: Netanyahu advocates economic squeeze on Iran and Hamas; Right of return as acid test of Arab intentions

Summary: Representative Gary Ackerman (D, New York), Chairman of the Middle East and South Asia Subcommittee of the House International Relations Committee, accompanied by the Ambassador, met with Opposition Leader Binyamin Netanyahu at the Knesset April 11. The discussion covered Netanyahu’s ideas on how to pressure Iran in order to block its nuclear program and topple President Ahmadinejad; Netanyahu’s views on dealing with the Palestinians; his critique of Prime Minister Olmert’s handling of the Second Lebanon War; and Netanyahu’s analysis of Israel’s domestic political situation.

On Iran, Netanyahu advocated intensified financial pressures, including a U.S.-led divestment effort focused largely on European companies that invest in Iran, as the best way to topple Ahmadinejad.

On the Palestinians, Netanyahu did not object to supporting President Abbas but said Israel and the U.S. should first focus more on “strangling” Hamas. Netanyahu asserted that Israel’s mishandling of the Lebanon war had strengthened Israel’s enemies. He predicted that Olmert would not be able to stay in power much longer, then described several different mechanisms for forming a new government. Netanyahu expressed confidence that the Israeli public recognized that he had been right, that unilateral withdrawals were a mistake, and that the priority now must be stopping Iran. Netanyahu noted that he thought dropping the “right of return” was the acid test of Arab intentions and insisted that he would never allow a single Palestinian refugee to return to Israel.

Hey, if you already knew your government was colluding and conspiring with the jewish president to overthrow the president of a nearby sovereign nation, why didn't YOU speak up? Nobody had proof until wiklileaks gave it to us. Nor did we (ie the world) know exactly how deeply in bed with the human rights abuses of Palestinians the US was. Now we know. Anti Israel, and anti US. so why are people in the US saying it's nothing important, or a scam? Gee, I wonder.

Be honest, say you don't care because you've been brought up to believe your country can do no wrong, and the psychological dissonance caused by you coming to terms with the fact your army is holding a US citizen, without charge, without trial, in solitary confinement for the "crime" of exposing the war crimes of the US Military would blow the top clean off your head. Just be a man and say you couldn't cope with the truth, so you're hiding out in ignorance, behind a lie. I dare you.

I mean, you do know PFC Manning reported a war crime the US military had been covering up, right? And the guy who pulled the trigger and shot the kids and the wounded people and the journalists, that guys is still on the streets while PFC Manning is getting the chinese water torture treatment in the land of the brave and the home of the free. Seriously, you already knew that, didn't you?

[Jo_Knows]

Whatever the outcome, I think that Mr. Assange will go down in History as a man who stood up for masses.

[ImBill]

Whatever the outcome, I think that Mr. Assange will go down in History as a man who stood up for masses.

And, he's not even Catholic!

[noises]

That's enough punny stuff.

[Nadda]

Be honest, say you don't care because you've been brought up to believe your country can do no wrong, and the psychological dissonance caused by you coming to terms with the fact your army is holding a US citizen, without charge, without trial, in solitary confinement for the "crime" of exposing the war crimes of the US Military would blow the top clean off your head. Just be a man and say you couldn't cope with the truth, so you're hiding out in ignorance, behind a lie. I dare you.

Your definately right, high percentages of people all over the world blindly follow their governments because thats how they were raised, thats what they were taught, and thats how they live. Most people have thick pride in where they are from and who represents them which leads them to turning a bline eye on whats happening.

However there have been political crimes and corruption throughout the history of mankind, from the egyptians to the romans to the modern age governments. I think the truth that people from all countries need to realize is that no ones sh!t smells like roses. No single government is peachy clean while all others are not. As wikileaks is trying to prove, just because you dont know of the corruption doesnt mean it doesnt exist. I hope citizens all over the world wake up and realize a different wikileaks site could be created for every government and that they should hold their own governments accountable just as well as americans should.

[noises]

Well, net neutrality became corporate censorship after all. How's that whole "being free" thing working out?

FCC breaks Obama's promise on Net Neutrality: 3 things you need to know | Progressive Change Campaign Committee

question, did the FCC get voted into public office while nobody was watching? If not, what's it doing making laws?

[noises]

Oh, my mistake, the Immigrations and Customs Office makes the laws. Apparently.
Customs Boss Defends Internet Censorship; Says More Is On The Way | Techdirt

You know, it's not "un-American" to demand accountability. What's "un-American" is hard for me to say, not being one myself. But I imagine it would have something to do with not being censored, or locked up in solitary confinement without charge, or being expected to cheer on war crimes and being cool with having your laptop confiscated while you're detained without charge at an airport. Just saying.

Dangerous precedents much?

[Nadda]

Oh, my mistake, the Immigrations and Customs Office makes the laws. Apparently.
Customs Boss Defends Internet Censorship; Says More Is On The Way | Techdirt

You know, it's not "un-American" to demand accountability. What's "un-American" is hard for me to say, not being one myself. But I imagine it would have something to do with not being censored, or locked up in solitary confinement without charge, or being expected to cheer on war crimes and being cool with having your laptop confiscated while you're detained without charge at an airport. Just saying.

Dangerous precedents much?

In this case not really. The websites they shut down were stealing by selling copyrighted material. The servers hosting the domains resided outside of the country which forced them to sieze the domain names. Many peer-to-peer piracy websites and servers have been shut down and seized over the years. Its the same reason servers hosting torrent files dont exist inside the united states. People like to earn money from the movies, CD's and Books they create.

Im on the fence about net neutrality. I'm no expert about everything it implies but there are some aspects about it that i support and some i dont. First everybody pays for tiered services. I pay $40 bucks a month for fast broadband, i could get slow dialup for $5 bucks a month. I enjoy paying more for a better service...Same with cable, i pay $50 bucks a month to get 70 channels instead of paying $30 and only getting 40 channels (or something like that). Again, im glad i have that choice. So i dont understand why companies shouldnt have that same choice in access. I obviously think there needs to be full government oversight to the corporations in control but i dont think removing the option for tiered service altogether is the answer.

[noises]

If someone was selling stolen books, you'd have to what? Provide a judge with evidence a crime was being committed, obtain a warrant, go to the store and shut, take teh books as evidence, get it all ino court and let a jury decide if there was a criminal case to answer.

ICE skipped the getting a warrant and going to court part, that's the point. If it wasn't a website, it would be like, ICE saying "those guys are breaching copyright," and marching in, herding everyone out, and boarding up the shop on the strength of an accusation.

So yeah, copyright's arguable, and I won't argue about the idea of law enforcement protecting the profits of 20th century fox rather than, say addressing crime in communities who pay (with their taxes) for those law enforcement agencies to exist. Instead, let's just look at the complete lack of due process here. People have rights, dude. To not be assumed guilty of crimes for one. To be tried by their peers for another. These are freedoms your soldiers kill people all over the world to preserve for you at home, right? So does it not strike you as ironic that you're losing those rights at home?

It's happening anyway. Looking the other way and whistling the battle hymns to the republic doesn't stop it. Speaking out about it doesn't stop it. Voting for an angry black man the neo-cons hate didn't even stop it. America has become pre-world war two Germany. Most of the Americans don't even seem to mind, there's a culture of fear of external threats, religious extremism, workers rights mean nothing, corporate rights mean everything, violent nationalist rhetoric is rife, people are getting arrested and held without charge, you even had your very own reichstag fire. Some people have spoken out about it, but they've been shut up or shouted down by a chorus of fiercely (and blindly) patriotic masses who've become increasingly violent. Censorship is rife, it's obvious there's a police state domestically and an expansionist military empire externally.

I just don't know what to say. If you choose to look the other way, or see these things as normal or necessary, more fool you. When it all comes back to bite you, at least you'll be able to say "they told us so..."

First they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemoller

Revised for 2011


First they came for the copyright breachers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a copyright breacher.

Then they came for the left-leaning bloggers and hacktivists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a left-leaning blogger or a hacktivist.

Then they came for the free energy seekers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't working on free energy stuff.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[noises]

Just curious, how many times have you followed a link from a free energy site to a youtube video that has been taken down by youtube for copyright violation? Check the chemtrail's thread for videos on chemtrails shut down for copyright breaches.

It's the blanket accusation used to shut up anything deemed contrary to the march of corporate fascism and a profit at all costs mentality.

Amazon Sued For Copyright, Design Patent, Trademark & Trade Dress Infringement Due To Marketplace Seller | Techdirt

There you go, someone recently accused Amazon of breach of copyright. How come some US alphabet agency doesn't confiscate amazon's domain name without charges, trials or a proper warrant? Why? Because the company making the copyright claim isn't a multi billion dollar US corporation, probably, and the company accused is.

Many of the sites seized were blogs. Uploading tunes directly from the guys who were making them, and NOT the property of ANY record company, (just more popular than their garbage.)
More & Bigger Mistakes Discovered In Homeland Security's Domain Seizures | Techdirt

Most of the rest were selling fake nikes made in china. I go into a retail chain store here, ALL the nikes are made in china. So what's the problem?

[Nadda]

America is pre nazi germany now? Watch out we're gonna take over the world! lmao

If someone was selling stolen books, you'd have to what? Provide a judge with evidence a crime was being committed, obtain a warrant, go to the store and shut, take teh books as evidence, get it all ino court and let a jury decide if there was a criminal case to answer.

Does a cop need to get a warrant to arrest a guy on the corner selling crack?
No. The guy is illegally selling an illegal drug. Piracy is illegally selling of legal material. You cant illegally sell anything to profit from. If you follow the link to the actual news release of that story you will see ICE had sought court orders for what they did. The blogger forgot to mention that.

It's happening anyway. Looking the other way and whistling the battle hymns to the republic doesn't stop it. Speaking out about it doesn't stop it. Voting for an angry black man the neo-cons hate didn't even stop it. America has become pre-world war two Germany. Most of the Americans don't even seem to mind, there's a culture of fear of external threats, religious extremism, workers rights mean nothing, corporate rights mean everything, violent nationalist rhetoric is rife, people are getting arrested and held without charge, you even had your very own reichstag fire. Some people have spoken out about it, but they've been shut up or shouted down by a chorus of fiercely (and blindly) patriotic masses who've become increasingly violent. Censorship is rife, it's obvious there's a police state domestically and an expansionist military empire externally.

It sounds like your the only one filled with hate..hate for america. I bet you think australia is the savior, what country do you live in again? Just sayin Its easy to sit in front of the news cycle and hand pick stories that agree with you and then label america as being nothing but what those stories contain. You somehow know that masses of patriotic people are becomming increasingly violent. What blogger gave you that idea? The same one that forgot to mention ICE did infact seek legal court orders for their actions? The point is, its easy to form biased opinions when your hand picking baised bloggers to learn from.

Your right, censorship is a thin line we have to thread when dealing with criminal activity and just as with everything else in this world that has control, it can be abused. However when criminals are making a profit from creations that they are not the original authors of they deserve to be shut down and arrested. Their websites deserve to be censored.

Just curious, how many times have you followed a link from a free energy site to a youtube video that has been taken down by youtube for copyright violation? Check the chemtrail's thread for videos on chemtrails shut down for copyright breaches.

It's the blanket accusation used to shut up anything deemed contrary to the march of corporate fascism and a profit at all costs mentality.

I'm not saying youtube is clean and is here to help humanity but lets be honest, if they do as you say, and "shut up anything deemed contrary to the march of corporate fascism and a profit at all costs mentality." then they wouldnt hand pick specific videos to block. I've watched Hundreds of free energy, UFO, chem trail, and whistleblower videos on Youtube. If they were using a "all costs mentality." I would Not have been able to see those videos. Many of those videos have been there for years. I've also seen hundreds of videos from all genres get taken down due to the soundtracks they were playing in the background. Not because they were protecting fascism but because they were protecting the original authors of that music. You dont have to be a corporation to file a copyright complaint with youtube.

I'm not saying Youtube would never abuse their power to block material that isnt copyrighted. What i am saying is that they are not doing it with an all costs mentality to blanket corporate facism...Otherwise they could do a Heck of a better job right now..

There you go, someone recently accused Amazon of breach of copyright. How come some US alphabet agency doesn't confiscate amazon's domain name without charges, trials or a proper warrant? Why? Because the company making the copyright claim isn't a multi billion dollar US corporation, probably, and the company accused is.

In this case you brought up Amazon itself didnt infringe on anyones copyright.
They are hosting a seperate company's product who infringed on another company's copyright. The only issue that involves amazon is their lack to respond to the original author quickly enough. The copyright infringement liability lays on the actual company who provided the copyrighted material not amazon. The blogger even stated that within the link you provide. If you look at everything with hatred in your eyes all that you will see is what you want to see.

Most of the rest were selling fake nikes made in china. I go into a retail chain store here, ALL the nikes are made in china. So what's the problem?

Did you really just say that? There is one important word...FAKE. Nike is the original creator of nike shoes, whoever is selling FAKE nikes are NOT. Therefore they should be arrested! Nike is allowed to make a profit for their creativity, no matter how much you hate them for being a successful corporation.

[ImBill]

Nike is allowed to make a profit for their creativity, no matter how much you hate them for being a successful corporation.

I really think you are reading Noises completely wrong, Nadda. I can certainly understand that you are both passionate about your side of the argument/discussion, but hateful is not a word I would use to describe him or you either, for that matter.

Yes, Nike is allowed and should be allowed to make a reasonable profit from their creativity and productivity. I think if you look into Nike's business practices, you will find that many people all around the world deplore the way they exploit children in the manufacturing of their shoes in China. They probably engage in other business practices that are contrary to the laws of nature and human decency, as most all businesses do. From a higher perspective, I would think that holding Nike to a higher standard of business ethics would be more important than protecting them from infringement from copiers, but of course, that's just me. I would agree that someone selling fake Nikes should be arrested as long as it can be proven that they knew they were fakes and that sales were made. I'm not sure what the laws are in China for manufacturing knock-offs, but I know enforcement must be pretty lax as there seems to be knock-offs for everything nowadays. I'd be interested in knowing what you feel the difference is between Nike expoiting their customers and workers so that the few at the top can have their multi-million dollar mansions, yachts, jets, expensive cars, luxury vacations, etc. and someone exploiting Nike's label to make a modest living.

I know I used to get pretty heated up about internet posts, especially if I felt I was being ridiculed or attacked personally. However, I've come to realize that words mean different things to different people and I don't always read things the way they were intended. Also, I realize I'm better off maintaining my mental and emotional equilibrium at all times, rather than reacting the way I've been trained and programmed to do.

[Nadda]

I really think you are reading Noises completely wrong,

How is that? Hate is a strong word but thats what noises expresses. He certainly doesnt like corporations. Also when someone labels america as a pre-world war two Germany, or has correlated capitalism to communism (in another topic), I take it for what it is. Its not love for america he's expressing. So i respond to the links he provides with facts for what they are.

[life4living]

"So i respond to the links he provides with facts for what they are."

With respect to you, Nadda, whose facts are you responding with?

[Nadda]

With respect to you, Nadda, whose facts are you responding with?

If you dont agree with my opinion thats perfectly fine, many wont. but if your implying that i lied somewhere just let me know what part.