Oath Keepers - Not On My Watch!

[rickoff]

This thread pretty much makes my point. The Forum has approx. 66,000 members. This thread has had only 525 views, and only 46 replies, most of them you or Jessica or Aaron. Of the rest how many looked at all the video evidence, etc. that was presented? Whatever the number, only a few even commented on it.

Yes, good point, Al. The General Discussion area is not often viewed by visitors, who largely come here to view the Renewable Energy threads. I am also guilty of overlooking much that has been posted in the General Discussion area in the past, and that is probably due to the fact that my basic interest here has also been Renewable Energy. When I first found Energetic Forum, I set up a browser tab that is one of 8 that always open whenever I click the Internet Explorer icon, and it takes me directly to the Renewable Energy threads. Because of this, I don't usually notice the other topics of discussion unless I have responded to a private message and am leaving the message area to go back to the Forum threads. I suspect this is the same thing that happens with most other people, and the real reason why the General Discussion threads don't get many hits or replies.

The only good thing that may come out of the Pittsburgh protests is more public awareness. Nearly everyone these days spends time on the Internet and is exposed to alternative news viewpoints that just aren't shown in the mainstream media. If the Oath Keepers take note of what happened in Pittsburgh, and are willing to stand up for citizen rights and draw a "line in the sand" at the next likely point of confrontation, then protesting can be a very useful tool. If the Oath Keepers aren't willing to do this then I only see future protest activities becoming more angry, and police responses becoming more repressive.

Our two party system, and the methods by which campaigns are financed and politicians are elected and re-elected, ensures continued government corruption and unlikely dethronement of the powerful elite. Those who are now in office and hope to stay there will not enact meaningful campaign reform laws that would enable honest and competent individuals to compete on a level playing field and displace them. That just won't happen, Al, and unless we can somehow change the system then real and positive change will never come during our lifetimes.

Rick

[rickoff]

Ok further update. I don't know the order of things here but apparently he was at some point given a bail option of $15k and it was raised and now he is under house arrest with electronic monitoring.

"He will be arraigned in December and the trial will probably be in March or April."

"House arrest?" I would take that to mean he has been allowed to return to his home in California. I wonder who came up with the bail money? And why are they allowing him 6 months to prepare his case, rather than proceeding with swift justice? I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a 6 month sentence at his April trial, with the intervening house arrest chalked up as time already served. What a sham.

[Nadda]

I agree that we must awaken at least enough of the public to carry through a plan as I have laid out if anything is to change. Those who care enough to demonstrate would surely make a good core to start with if they had good leaders to organize and lead them properly. I, for one, fully intend to do this here in the next election cycle as we finally have a candidate from outside the current political "clique" who is worth supporting.

You guys are exactly right. It truly is sad how few people even take the time to participate in local elections, hell only a fraction vote for the presidency.

To vote for local politians in my city you have to go through an elementary school maze to find the library which is always empty except for 2-3 people who run the machines...This comming from a city with 1-2 Million residents.

So many people just dont care that theyre country is being changed beneath theyre feet. We had a Tea Party here with about 10,000 people...It was the first protest i've ever been to, but i guaruntee it wont be my last. Each one of us that are the wiser need to recruit all of our friends and family to get to the polls everytime to kick these corrupt politicans out of OUR office.

[ANTIQUER]

Guilty?

Hello Rick;

Yes, good point, Al. The General Discussion area is not often viewed by visitors, who largely come here to view the Renewable Energy threads. I am also guilty of overlooking much that has been posted in the General Discussion area in the past, and that is probably due to the fact that my basic interest here has also been Renewable Energy. When I first found Energetic Forum, I set up a browser tab that is one of 8 that always open whenever I click the Internet Explorer icon, and it takes me directly to the Renewable Energy threads. Because of this, I don't usually notice the other topics of discussion unless I have responded to a private message and am leaving the message area to go back to the Forum threads. I suspect this is the same thing that happens with most other people, and the real reason why the General Discussion threads don't get many hits or replies.

Well, if that's the worst you are guilty of you are in better shape than most of us.
But that does point up one problem we all have, not enough time to do all we need to do or would like to do. The elite know this and take advantage of it, even manipulate the system to keep it that way so we have no time to work on removing them from power. And of course they manipulate the media to deflect our attention to non-issues so the focus of fighting them is lost.

"It's hard to remember your original goal was to drain the swamp when your up to your hips in alligators".

So, as I stated before, seems like the best way to fight them is from the grass roots upward. There are many patriotic groups like The Oath Keepers that should link up and act in unison; strength in numbers. Find good local candidates and help them upwards. Groups like The Oath Keepers probably have enough self-control to demonstrate peacefully. As you stated, large groups in uniform standing silently and peacefully would make a powerful statement, drawing the right kind of media attention and attracting the right kind of people to join them. But they also need to work as a group for worthy candidates and get them elected.That's the American way and it will work over time if we avoid inflammatory rhetoric within the groups and stick to working on the main cause: taking our country back from the elite power structure.

Best regards, Al

P.S. The post from Nadda came in while I was writing this reply. I had forgotten The Tea Party; another good group to unite with. We have had several local events, all of which were a great success and were hardly mentioned by the local press. Does'nt matter, word is spreading and elections are coming.

[rickoff]

Re: grassroots efforts

seems like the best way to fight them is from the grass roots upward.

Yes, I agree. However, we witnessed enormous grassroots efforts in our latest presidential election which failed to bring about positive change. The public was ready for change, and screaming for it. They were ready to elect anyone who promised change, and the most successful candidate was the one who promised the most changes. Alas, those promises have not been kept.

Obama was not the only candidate who garnered strong grassroots support. Grassroots fundraising efforts to nominate Ron Paul were quite successful too, in that on November 5, 2007, Republican presidential condidate Ron Paul set a single day fundraising record, by raising $4.3 million within a 24-hour period. But even though the people clearly backed him solidly, the Republican leadership saw to it that he would not receive the nomination. That's because Ron bucked the party line on several issues, and was perceived as a threat to the Federal Reserve system and big government. Ron was also the first member of Congress to propose term limits for the House. If Ron had run as an independent candidate, he at least would have been placed on the ballot. Paul did run on the Libertarian ticket in 1988, and placed third in the election. Generally, the Libertarian party, and other non-major parties, just don't have the clout to overcome Democrat and Republican opposition. And even if an independent candidate could be successfully elected to the presidency, he or she would be a lame duck president unless like minded independents could be elected to fill all House and Senate seats. House and Senate elections are staggered to prevent such a possibility. The powerful elite have all the angles figured out, and very effective contingency plans to handle any situation. If a candidate is seen as threatening to their ideals, they will stop at nothing to quash that person. They will dig up dirt or manufacture it, and will use their power and influence over mass media to deflate public enthusiasm for the candidate. And if all else fails, the candidate can meet an untimely demise in what will be touted as an unfortunate accident. We all personally know someone of sound mind and integrity who would be the kind of person we would like to see get elected, but these people are smart enough to realize what they would be up against and generally aren't willing to place themselves and their families at such high risk. Then too, they are disgusted with the blatant corruption of the political machine, and don't want to be seen as a part of it. Washington outsiders who may be lucky enough to become elected representatives are in nearly all cases either Republican or Democrat. They don't get the opportunity to run for a seat without the approval of their party, and their party's backers - the power elite. Getting there requires a lot of ass kissing and political promises. Those who go against the grain and don't keep those promises are quickly eliminated - one way or another.

I have always exercised my voting rights in all municipal, state, and federal elections, but I firmly believe that the right to vote means very little as long as our political system remains under the control of ruthless tyrants. How to wrest control away from them, and place it in the hands of the people, is the real question that needs to be answered. I just don't see it happening through our votes, and time is definitely not in our favor. We are running out of time, and standing on the brink of financial and social collapse and chaos. Of course that in itself will bring about change, but it won't be pretty. At this point I'm not quite sure what can possibly bring about positive change before it is too late, but I do remain hopeful and active in seeking a way.

Best wishes to you Al,

Rick

Rick

[ANTIQUER]

Enough time?

Hi Rick;

Yes, I agree. However, we witnessed enormous grassroots efforts in our latest presidential election which failed to bring about positive change. The public was ready for change, and screaming for it. They were ready to elect anyone who promised change, and the most successful candidate was the one who promised the most changes

Absolutely! However, the rest of your posting shows a big part of the problem. Too many scattered grass root efforts. "United we stand, divided we fall". We must drop the bickering over minor issues and focus on one or two candidates of our choosing that are correct on most major issues,at least. If that had happened last election we could have put Ron Paul or the governor from Arkansas (former Baptist pastor, sorry his name escapes me at the moment) or even Sarah Pallin (couldn't be any worse) in office. But we really need to focus on the Congress, they make the laws and control the money. This focusing on who the next president will be while practically ignoring the other races is a ploy by the elite to keep control of the real power by distraction. We here heard nothing about the congressional races last time until 2 weeks before the vote, and even then very little actual campaigning.

The problem with the grass root campaign has two major facets1) you must have good leadership which can pull these various groups together ;(2) you must educate the electorate to the truth and to ignore mud-slinging, etc. I know that's a tremendous uphill battle, but you actually only need a small number of votes to win as currently elections are won or lost by such a small percentage. (P.S.- I didn't put that purple face in there and I can't get rid of it!)

As for the current winner it's a little early to tell how we are eventually going to fare under his leadership, but I think you are correct in expecting the worst. It might work to our advantage next time as I expect a lot of people who voted for him and other liberals will be so disgusted they will come to their senses and throw liberals of both parties out. Anyhow, we can always hope and pray. Prayer is one tool the elite don't have and can be very effective if coupled with repentance, which is also sorely needed in our country.(remember Nebuchadnezzar; Daniel 5:17-21 for any who don't)

Actually I have an inner conflict over this. As an American I want the best for our country and people and want to strive toward that end. As a Christian I Know this madness and evil are signs of what will happen as we grow nearer to the second coming of Jesus, and it will only get worse.

Another sign he mentioned (Matt.24:6 & 7) was the increase in earthquakes and their severity. Just saw reports of 3 more in So. Pacific today. The U.S. Geological Survey a few years ago went back several thousand years and charted their frequency up to the present (at that time). The graph showed for the last 30 years the line of the upward curve (increasing frequency) looked like a jet's wake as he took off from a carrier during a maximum alert scramble, and the rate of climb has increased until he is going nearly straight up. The biggest reason I really like this sign is mankind has absolutely no effect on it. You can argue global warming, but earthquakes?

To sum up I think we can turn things around by starting at a local level, given enough time. I don't believe we can do it by focusing on things at a national level without first establishing things on a local level, as we have seen. That's to easy for the enemy to de-rail, so for the next election we should focus on local levels and maybe a few Congressional seats. Don't re-elect anyone then, and see where we are in 2012. Maybe we can establish enough of a base by then to swing more seats or even the presidency if people are disgusted enough. After all, "you can't fool all of the people all of the time".

Until next time,

Al

[rickoff]

next election

for the next election we should focus on local levels and maybe a few Congressional seats. Don't re-elect anyone then, and see where we are in 2012. Maybe we can establish enough of a base by then to swing more seats or even the presidency if people are disgusted enough. After all, "you can't fool all of the people all of the time".

You're right, Al. We both realize that the biggest problem is in educating and organizing people to act in unison. I think that will be difficult to achieve until everyone's health, freedom, and finances are in great peril, because so many people live in denial of truths that are self evident. People will be difficult to organize to act in unison until they realize that we are all in the same boat.

There are two senators in my state that definitely need to go. As you may remember, Maine senators Snowe and Collins, along with Harry Reid of Nevada, could have stopped the "Economic Stimulus" bill dead in its tracks. Though both Snowe and Collins are Republican Party members, they quite often vote as moderates or liberals. It seems as though they always wait until the last minute to vote, as they want to be seen as voting with a clear majority on all issues - in other words, the winning side. You would be right if you guessed that they haven't cosigned the "Audit the Fed" bill yet. They haven't even bothered to answer my pleas to do that. In other matters where they actually have sent me a reply, it is just a form letter and usually does not address my concerns at all. The problem in getting them out of office is that Republicans will vote for them simply because they are always the Republican candidates on the ballot, and Democrats also vote for them because they are happy with the senators' liberal voting records. Thus, they always win in a landslide election that an independent candidate has no chance in hell of overturning. I wish that senators and congressmen had 2 year term limits, and that they all expired at the same time, but we will never see our representatives pass that law. Any suggestions, Al?

Rick

[Mad Scientist]

This is take on the last election. We started out with a number of candidates for president; a few of them could have probably been very good. Plus we had a good grassroots movement demanding change. Thus you would have expected to see real change. This obviously did not happen.

What did happen was those who are really in control of the government and with their control of the media quickly dismissed the validity of all the candidates that they didn’t like. These candidates’ positions were ether ridiculed or if they were stating to make sense they were just simply ignored and majority of people were not allowed to hear their ideas.

Meanwhile we were treated to unstop coverage of McCain, Hillary and Obama who were portrayed as the only ones who were truly worthy of being president. Naturally everyone was encouraged to go out and wave their red and blue flags and cheer on their team. The issues didn’t matter the only concern was to keep everyone arguing over who was better tweedledee or tweedledum. That way the sheeple could be distracted and prevented from asking serious questions.

This worked perfectly for the powers-that-be in that they could care less whether the winner has an “R” or a “D” after their name all that matters is if that person will follow their orders and do their bidding.

[ANTIQUER]

Ideas?

Hi Rick;

Well, I think this is one of those situations where you shift your focus to local or state officials and help them work up through the system. And try to get the local organizations that are right-minded to pool their efforts for the next election. I am not naive and know this in itself is difficult, but I feel this is the only way that will work, given time.

I did a quick check on Snowe and Collins. Snowe is not up for election until 2012. Collins was re-elected in the last election, so she is safe for another 5 years. Although there is some opposition to them, they seem to be held in high esteem by the majority of the sheeple. Snowe was ranked #1 Senator in the senate in 2005 based on a constituent survey done in all 50 states, and of all Senators. They both worked their way up through the ranks of the Republican party and seem to be firmly entrenched. I guess you could exercise the prayer option and maybe a tree might fall on at least one of them , but in the current situation a campaign against either would probably be an exercise in futility.

But Reid?; I'm surprised you thought he might try to stop the stimulus bill. As a liberal Democrat and leader of the liberal majority he will never vote to stop anything Obama and his party are for. I don't mistake his "Uncle Harry" character for anything but what it is; a publicity act for the benefit of the sheeple.(Thanks to Mad Scientist; I had forgotten one of my old favorite terms)

Anyhow, how about your Representatives if you want to replace a U.S. Congressional seat? Are any of them less popular and worthy of unseating?

As to expecting anything other than a form letter as a reply you can forget it. I have a cousin who was a personal aide to a U.S. senator. The mail came in(this was a little before e-mail, but the same process is used there today) and was initially sorted by aides as to content(foreign or domestic) , then those piles were sorted by issue. Then they were scanned by aides familiar with that area of interest into plus or minus, pro or con. Then to a personal aid who scanned a few, usually these were the ones on Corporate, Bank,Union, etc. letterhead.( With e-mails today they are electronically scanned and a form letter response is automatically generated.) These were the only ones that had a chance of anything resembling a personal reply as that aide would then give them to the Senator with a recommendation . The rest where just counted in the pro or con totals for any given issue. These representatives are so well insulated and protected from the public about the only chance to meet one is at the local town hall meetings they hold occasionally.

On that front here's a video you might find amusing;

Freedom's Lighthouse: Man Calls for Resignation of Maine Senators Snowe and Collins as He Talks to Pictures at Town Hall - Video

So my suggestions are same as before, maybe a little more detail. Each seat has to be selected and handled individually as local and/or national conditions dictate. Maybe by 2012 or even a little by 2010 enough of the sheeple will realize we are all in the same boat and will be ready to mutiny against the current captain and his motley crew.

with regards,

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Grassroots campaigning

Hi Mad Scientist;

As I discussed with Rick, the grass root movements were split among to many candidates. I won't go through the Democrats as I don't think any of them should have won as I feared what is happening would happen if one of them won; a liberal tea party with the guests running amok.

On the Republican side the momentum should have immediately focused on Ron Paul, Pallin and Huckabee. The rest were only "wanna-be's" and were not really viable candidates for various reasons. McCain had plenty of support from the party elite so the other three should have been supported by the grass root movements until it was obvious which had the best chance in the primary. That enables a much more effective campaign against the forces of the elite. Again, we must focus on major issues for now and compromise on smaller ones among the various groups and not fall prey to the "divide and conquer" strategy of the elite. We have to get people to stick to decisions based on records, etc., not mud-slinging, unfounded rumors, implied racism, mis-interpretation of candidates remarks, and all the other dirty tricks they pull out of their bag, especially in the last 10 days (or less) of the campaign.

We must also remember in detail all the nonsense going on now so that when it fails we can remind people of it in 2010 and 2012 and who voted for or supported it. The media mostly will not.

Your analysis of the last election was generally correct. If you wish to avoid another debacle like that start implementing some of my suggestions. We hopefully have no where to go but up. I certainly think we could not do any worse.

Al

[Aaron]

Oath Keepers

Here is Oath Keepers forum and state group list. You have to join their ning forum to see it - it is free.

Oath Keepers - Oath Keepers Forum & Groups

I do enjoy all the messages in this thread but we do need more focus
on the Oath Keepers organization and movement.

[rickoff]

Reid?; I'm surprised you thought he might try to stop the stimulus bill.

I never thought or expected that Reid would vote against the stimulus Bill, Al. I merely pointed out that Reid, Collins, and Snowe were the last holdouts to vote, and could have thwarted the bill if they had voted against it. Therefore, these people, while not alone in voting as they did, were the deciding factor in passage of the bill, and I see their actions as the most reprehensible of all.

Snowe and Collins are again holdouts, and amongst a small group of senators who have not yet cosponsored the "Audit the Fed" bill. Neither have they made their position on the "Obamacare" bill clearly known. They have ignored my requests concerning these issues, and have failed to respond with any answers. Of course that's pretty much what I had expected of them, and I'm just stating the facts.

Thanks for the video link. I did find it enjoyable to watch someone in a public meeting demanding that Snowe and Collins resign. You can see that senator Snowe's own secretary admitted that 85% of constituents who contacted her regarding the stimulus bill requested that she vote against it, but she ignored those requests. And neither Snowe nor Collins even read the stimulus bill before voting on it. What a sham! I know this sort of thing has happened everywhere, and not just in Maine. The public is not fairly represented, and our interests and rights are thus not guaranteed or protected, no matter what the Constitution says.
Freedom's Lighthouse: Man Calls for Resignation of Maine Senators Snowe and Collins as He Talks to Pictures at Town Hall - Video


Best regards,

Rick

[rickoff]

I do enjoy all the messages in this thread but we do need more focus on the Oath Keepers organization and movement.

I agree, Aaron. We do seem to be getting a bit off topic, and some of the posts would better be reserved for a separate thread titled "Government Corruption, and what we can do about it," or something along those lines. We really should be focusing attention here on the Oath Keepers - specifically what they stand for, what they say they will or will not do, and the extent of what they are willing to do to actively defend the Constitution and citizen rights. To that end I recently posted 3 comments at the Oath Keepers website, hoping to see a reply from them as to what they actually are willing to do to protect our freedoms and defend the Constitution. So far, of course, they have only openly declared what they will not do when facing unconstitutional orders. I made specific recommendations to them, as I have done here, and asked two questions:

1. Why did they not seize the opportunity at Pittsburgh to defend the Constitution, and citizens rights?
2. Are they willing to appear at the next likely point of conflict, and draw a line in the sand there?

I think these questions are important ones, and deserving of answers. To my way of thinking, it would be far more effective to actively take a stand against tyranny now, rather than to wait for an opportunity to disobey unconstitutional orders. When those orders come, the situation will already have sunken into chaos.

Not seeing a direct answer to my comments as posted on the Oath Keepers website, I then used the Contact link at their website to submit an e-mail message. I still have not received any reply to that, but am still hoping that I will, and will post that reply here if and when received. I was polite in my request to them, and made it clear that I was supportive of their efforts, so see no reason why they would not answer me. I told them that I realize they are probably very busy, but that I feel this issue is very important. I hope they do respond, because I felt very encouraged after you posted this thread and I visited their website. Similar e-mails, from others here, might help to encourage a response from the Oath Keepers, and I hope that readers will follow through on that suggestion. The e-mail Contact link can be found here:
Oath Keepers » oathkeepers Contact


Best regards,

Rick

[Pot head]

I am an oath keeper

I joined the military and I still keep the oath to protect the USA from all threats foreign and domestic,
I also open carry and I don’t need a license.
I also wrote the second amendment preservation ordinance for my county.
America the Beautiful!!
Democrats in office the ugly!!

[Pot head]

How many?

How many members today are oath keeers?
Danny B? Vinyasa? Alien Burdress?