Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

High-pressure photodissociation of water as a tool for hydrogen synthesis and fundame

Here is the COMPLETE ENGLISH article for the LENS Experiment:
High-pressure photodissociation of water as a tool for hydrogen synthesis and fundamental chemistry

Here is the complete article in English that I posted on Feb 1.

[sebosfato]

Hi tutanka wouldn't your process to achieve the thermal energy by combining the h2 02 with n2 or whatever, create also an very big amount of NO's in the exhaust output? And consume more oxygen from atmosphere?

I mean this because i was thinking that maybe your thermal energy is coming from the extra reaction of the nitrogen combined (bigger molecule as you state) with still more oxygen from air.

Basically in this case yes you will obtain more thermal explosive energy but would still consume the oxygen from the air and still release a big amount of Nox.

Can you please tell me if i'm wrong?

the nitrogen hydroxide can be used to improve growth of plants a lot did you knew it?

[dave_cahoon]

Meyer did say you didnt get all the oxygen back. I've seen the video his lips said that.
Maybe its not destroyed atomically just converted to an oxide that's not as bad.

Maybe he was thinking you don't get all the nitrogen back???

If the exhaust has Fixed Nitrogen in it than were doing nature a favor.

Dave

[dave_cahoon]

The differing larger energy outputs are from Mono-Atomic H1 + H1 = H2 type reactions and then the H2+O2 type reactions that follow.

Nitrogen fixes Hydrogen (ie holds it for us) later it can be sparked when needed.

The differences are known.

Dave

[sebosfato]

Meyer did say you didnt get all the oxygen back. I've seen the video his lips said that.
Maybe its not destroyed atomically just converted to an oxide that's not as bad.

Maybe he was thinking you don't get all the nitrogen back???

If the exhaust has Fixed Nitrogen in it than were doing nature a favor.

Dave

NOX are pollution as much or worse than CO2 or C0

[dave_cahoon]

NOX are pollution as much or worse than CO2 or C0

You think CO2 is pollution thats part of the problem, Its not pollution.

I cant get into that anymore than that its simple, furans dioxins poisons co2 LOL
I'm very sorry for affending you in anyway whatsoever DAC

Fixed nitrogen maybe bad for the city...

Dave

[tutanka]

Hi tutanka wouldn't your process to achieve the thermal energy by combining the h2 02 with n2 or whatever, create also an very big amount of NO's in the exhaust output? And consume more oxygen from atmosphere?

I mean this because i was thinking that maybe your thermal energy is coming from the extra reaction of the nitrogen combined (bigger molecule as you state) with still more oxygen from air.

Basically in this case yes you will obtain more thermal explosive energy but would still consume the oxygen from the air and still release a big amount of Nox.

Can you please tell me if i'm wrong?

the nitrogen hydroxide can be used to improve growth of plants a lot did you knew it?

NOx... they are not released as exaust gas.. I can't write complete formula but we are speaking about chemistry (mathematical) not magical system as yours

[sucahyo]

Hi tutanka wouldn't your process to achieve the thermal energy by combining the h2 02 with n2 or whatever, create also an very big amount of NO's in the exhaust output? And consume more oxygen from atmosphere?

According to Honda exhaust document posted by h2opower a rich mixture will produce more NH3 and less NOx.
Temple of VTEC Rumors and News - Honda Develops Next-Generation Clean Diesel Engine

- During lean burn operation, the NOx adsorbent in the lower layer adsorbs NOx from the exhaust gas.
- As needed, the engine management system adjusts the engine air-fuel ratio to rich-burn, wherein the NOx in the NOx adsorption layer reacts with hydrogen (H2) obtained from the exhaust gas to produce ammonia (NH3).The adsorbent material in the upper layer temporarily adsorbs the NH3.
-When the engine returns to lean-burn operation, NH3 adsorbed in the upper layer reacts with NOx in the exhaust gas and reduces it to harmless nitrogen (N2).

According to Meyer NOx can be reduced if Oxygen to Hydrogen ratio is 2:1. If it still exist, I think tutanka can just use his ionizer to clean up, just like what Meyer do, using his VIC ionizer to exhaust. This should work just like catalytic converter:

[sebosfato]

Well yes i know, i got interested in your process too and today i got the all night free for studying about it.

At ambient temperatures, the oxygen and nitrogen gases in air will not react with each other. In an internal combustion engine, combustion of a mixture of air and fuel produces combustion temperatures high enough to drive endothermic reactions between atmospheric nitrogen and oxygen in the flame, yielding various oxides of nitrogen. In areas of high motor vehicle traffic, such as in large cities, the amount of nitrogen oxides emitted into the atmosphere can be quite significant.
In the presence of excess oxygen (O2), nitric oxide (NO) will be converted to nitrogen dioxide (NO2),

Mono-nitrogen oxides eventually form nitric acid when dissolved in atmospheric moisture, forming a component of acid rain. The following chemical reaction occurs when nitrogen dioxide reacts with water:
2 NO2 + H2O → HNO2 + HNO3

Nitrous acid then decomposes as follows:
3 HNO2 → HNO3 + 2 NO + H2O
where nitric oxide will oxidize to form nitrogen dioxide that again reacts with water, ultimately forming nitric acid:
4 NO + 3 O2 + 2 H2O → 4 HNO3

Mono-nitrogen oxides are also involved in tropospheric production of ozone.
NOx should not be confused with nitrous oxide (N2O) which has many uses as an oxidizer, an anesthesia, and a food additive.

Nitrous oxide is produced during thunderstorms due to the extreme heat of lightning,[4] and is caused by the splitting of nitrogen molecules. This can result in the production of acid rain, if nitrous oxide forms compounds with the water molecules in precipitation, thus creating acid rain.

The Kyoto Protocol, ratified by 54 nations in 1997, classifies N2O as a greenhouse gas, and calls for substantial worldwide reductions in its emission.

The use of exhaust gas recirculation and catalytic converters in motor vehicle engines have significantly reduced emissions.

Agricultural fertilization and the use of nitrogen fixing plants also contribute to atmospheric NOx, by promoting nitrogen fixation by microorganisms.

Oxidized (cationic) and reduced (anionic) derivatives of many of these oxides exist: nitrite (NO-2), nitrate (NO-3), nitronium (NO+2), and nitrosonium (NO+). NO2 is intermediate between nitrite and nitronium:
NO2+ + e− → NO2
NO2 + e− → NO2−



Nitrogen dioxide is a paramagnetic bent molecule with C2v point group symmetry.

Nitrogen dioxide typically arises via the oxidation of nitric oxide by oxygen in air:
2 NO + O2 → 2 NO2

The chemistry of nitrogen dioxide has been investigated extensively. At 150 °C, NO2 decomposes with release of oxygen via an endothermic process (ΔH = 114 kJ/mol):
2 NO2 → 2 NO + O2

As suggested by the weakness of the N–O bond, NO2 is a good oxidizer and will sustain the combustion, sometimes explosively, with many compounds, such as hydrocarbons.

It hydrolyzes with disproportionation to give nitric acid:
3 NO2 + H2O → NO + 2 HNO3

The most important sources of NO2 are internal combustion engines,[4] thermal power stations and, to a lesser extent, pulp mills. Butane gas heaters and stoves are also sources. The excess air required for complete combustion of fuels in these processes introduces nitrogen into the combustion reactions at high temperatures and produces nitrogen oxides (NOx). Limiting NOx production demands the precise control of the amount of air used in combustion.
Nitrogen dioxide is also produced by atmospheric nuclear tests, and is responsible for the reddish colour of mushroom clouds.[5]
Nitrogen dioxide is a large scale pollutant, with rural background ground level concentrations in some areas around 30 µg/m3, not far below unhealthy levels.

If this document howtomakenitrogenhydroxide.pdf information is correct, you are saying that you are not using an electrolyte. But states that the exhaust gases (containing No and No2) should pass thru the water thus it should create nitric acid witch is will behave as electrolyte right? You mean by no electrolyte the non use of koh or nah ...?

Dinitrogen tetroxide N2O4

Use as a rocket propellant

Power generation using:
The tendency of N2O4 to reversibly break into NO2 has led to research into its use in advanced power generation systems as a so-called dissociating gas. "Cool" nitrogen tetroxide is compressed and heated, causing it to dissociate into nitrogen dioxide at half the molecular weight. This hot nitrogen dioxide is expanded through a turbine, cooling it and lowering the pressure, and then cooled further in a heat sink, causing it to recombine into nitrogen tetroxide at the original molecular weight. It is then much easier to compress to start the entire cycle again.

Synthesis of metal nitrates
N2O4 behaves as the salt [NO+][NO3−], the former being a strong oxidant:
2 N2O4 + M → 2 NO + M(NO3)2



Nitric acid (HNO3), also known as aqua fortis and spirit of nitre, is a highly corrosive and toxic strong acid.

Nitric acid is made by reacting nitrogen dioxide (NO2) with water.
3 NO2 + H2O → 2 HNO3 + NO


Oxidizing properties
Reactions with metals:
Being a powerful oxidizing agent, nitric acid reacts violently with many organic materials and the reactions may be explosive. Depending on the acid concentration, temperature and the reducing agent involved, the end products can be variable. Reaction takes place with all metals except a few of the precious metal series and certain alloys. This characteristic has made it a common agent to be used in acid tests. As a general rule, oxidizing reactions occur primarily with the concentrated acid, favoring the formation of nitrogen dioxide (NO2).
Cu + 4 H+ + 2 NO3− → Cu2+ + 2 NO2 + 2 H2O

The acidic properties tend to dominate with dilute acid, coupled with the preferential formation of nitric oxide (NO). However, when the reaction is carried out in the presence of atmospheric oxygen, the nitric oxide rapidly reacts to form brown nitrogen dioxide (NO2):
3 Cu + 8 HNO3 → 3 Cu(NO3)2 + 2 NO + 4 H2O
2 NO + O2 → 2 NO2
Since nitric acid is an oxidizing agent, hydrogen (H2) is rarely formed. Only magnesium (Mg), manganese (Mn) and calcium (Ca) react with cold, dilute nitric acid to give hydrogen:
Mg(s) + 2 HNO3(aq) → Mg(NO3)2(aq) + H2(g)


Nitrosonium ion or NO+ as NOBF4 is a strong oxidizing agent:
vs. ferrocene/ferrocenium, [NO]+ in CH2Cl2 solution has a redox potential of 1.00 V (or 1.46-1.48 V vs SCE)
vs. ferrocene/ferrocenium, [NO]+ in CH3CN solution has a redox potential of 0.87 V vs. (or 1.27-1.25 V vs SCE)
NOBF4 is a convenient oxidant because the byproduct NO is a gas, which can be swept from the reaction using a stream of N2. Upon contact with air, NO forms NO2, which can cause secondary reactions if it is not removed. NO2 is readily detectable by its characteristic orange color.

NO+ reacts readily with water to form nitrous acid HNO2.
Nitrous acid rapidly decomposes into nitrogen dioxide, nitric oxide, and water when in solution.
2 HNO2 → NO2 + NO + H2O
It also decomposes into nitric acid and nitrous oxide and water.
4 HNO2 → 2 HNO3 + N2O + H2O

Thanks Again
Best Regards

[tutanka]

Well yes i know, i got interested in your process too and today i got the all night free for studying about it.

At ambient temperatures, the oxygen and nitrogen gases in air will not react with each other. In an internal combustion engine, combustion of a mixture of air and fuel produces combustion temperatures high enough to drive endothermic reactions between atmospheric nitrogen and oxygen in the flame, yielding various oxides of nitrogen. In areas of high motor vehicle traffic, such as in large cities, the amount of nitrogen oxides emitted into the atmosphere can be quite significant.
In the presence of excess oxygen (O2), nitric oxide (NO) will be converted to nitrogen dioxide (NO2),

Mono-nitrogen oxides eventually form nitric acid when dissolved in atmospheric moisture, forming a component of acid rain. The following chemical reaction occurs when nitrogen dioxide reacts with water:
2 NO2 + H2O → HNO2 + HNO3

Nitrous acid then decomposes as follows:
3 HNO2 → HNO3 + 2 NO + H2O
where nitric oxide will oxidize to form nitrogen dioxide that again reacts with water, ultimately forming nitric acid:
4 NO + 3 O2 + 2 H2O → 4 HNO3

Mono-nitrogen oxides are also involved in tropospheric production of ozone.
NOx should not be confused with nitrous oxide (N2O) which has many uses as an oxidizer, an anesthesia, and a food additive.

Nitrous oxide is produced during thunderstorms due to the extreme heat of lightning,[4] and is caused by the splitting of nitrogen molecules. This can result in the production of acid rain, if nitrous oxide forms compounds with the water molecules in precipitation, thus creating acid rain.

The Kyoto Protocol, ratified by 54 nations in 1997, classifies N2O as a greenhouse gas, and calls for substantial worldwide reductions in its emission.

The use of exhaust gas recirculation and catalytic converters in motor vehicle engines have significantly reduced emissions.

Agricultural fertilization and the use of nitrogen fixing plants also contribute to atmospheric NOx, by promoting nitrogen fixation by microorganisms.

Oxidized (cationic) and reduced (anionic) derivatives of many of these oxides exist: nitrite (NO-2), nitrate (NO-3), nitronium (NO+2), and nitrosonium (NO+). NO2 is intermediate between nitrite and nitronium:
NO2+ + e− → NO2
NO2 + e− → NO2−



Nitrogen dioxide is a paramagnetic bent molecule with C2v point group symmetry.

Nitrogen dioxide typically arises via the oxidation of nitric oxide by oxygen in air:
2 NO + O2 → 2 NO2

The chemistry of nitrogen dioxide has been investigated extensively. At 150 °C, NO2 decomposes with release of oxygen via an endothermic process (ΔH = 114 kJ/mol):
2 NO2 → 2 NO + O2

As suggested by the weakness of the N–O bond, NO2 is a good oxidizer and will sustain the combustion, sometimes explosively, with many compounds, such as hydrocarbons.

It hydrolyzes with disproportionation to give nitric acid:
3 NO2 + H2O → NO + 2 HNO3

The most important sources of NO2 are internal combustion engines,[4] thermal power stations and, to a lesser extent, pulp mills. Butane gas heaters and stoves are also sources. The excess air required for complete combustion of fuels in these processes introduces nitrogen into the combustion reactions at high temperatures and produces nitrogen oxides (NOx). Limiting NOx production demands the precise control of the amount of air used in combustion.
Nitrogen dioxide is also produced by atmospheric nuclear tests, and is responsible for the reddish colour of mushroom clouds.[5]
Nitrogen dioxide is a large scale pollutant, with rural background ground level concentrations in some areas around 30 µg/m3, not far below unhealthy levels.

If this document howtomakenitrogenhydroxide.pdf information is correct, you are saying that you are not using an electrolyte. But states that the exhaust gases (containing No and No2) should pass thru the water thus it should create nitric acid witch is will behave as electrolyte right? You mean by no electrolyte the non use of koh or nah ...?

Dinitrogen tetroxide N2O4

Use as a rocket propellant

Power generation using:
The tendency of N2O4 to reversibly break into NO2 has led to research into its use in advanced power generation systems as a so-called dissociating gas. "Cool" nitrogen tetroxide is compressed and heated, causing it to dissociate into nitrogen dioxide at half the molecular weight. This hot nitrogen dioxide is expanded through a turbine, cooling it and lowering the pressure, and then cooled further in a heat sink, causing it to recombine into nitrogen tetroxide at the original molecular weight. It is then much easier to compress to start the entire cycle again.

Synthesis of metal nitrates
N2O4 behaves as the salt [NO+][NO3−], the former being a strong oxidant:
2 N2O4 + M → 2 NO + M(NO3)2



Nitric acid (HNO3), also known as aqua fortis and spirit of nitre, is a highly corrosive and toxic strong acid.

Nitric acid is made by reacting nitrogen dioxide (NO2) with water.
3 NO2 + H2O → 2 HNO3 + NO


Oxidizing properties
Reactions with metals:
Being a powerful oxidizing agent, nitric acid reacts violently with many organic materials and the reactions may be explosive. Depending on the acid concentration, temperature and the reducing agent involved, the end products can be variable. Reaction takes place with all metals except a few of the precious metal series and certain alloys. This characteristic has made it a common agent to be used in acid tests. As a general rule, oxidizing reactions occur primarily with the concentrated acid, favoring the formation of nitrogen dioxide (NO2).
Cu + 4 H+ + 2 NO3− → Cu2+ + 2 NO2 + 2 H2O

The acidic properties tend to dominate with dilute acid, coupled with the preferential formation of nitric oxide (NO). However, when the reaction is carried out in the presence of atmospheric oxygen, the nitric oxide rapidly reacts to form brown nitrogen dioxide (NO2):
3 Cu + 8 HNO3 → 3 Cu(NO3)2 + 2 NO + 4 H2O
2 NO + O2 → 2 NO2
Since nitric acid is an oxidizing agent, hydrogen (H2) is rarely formed. Only magnesium (Mg), manganese (Mn) and calcium (Ca) react with cold, dilute nitric acid to give hydrogen:
Mg(s) + 2 HNO3(aq) → Mg(NO3)2(aq) + H2(g)


Nitrosonium ion or NO+ as NOBF4 is a strong oxidizing agent:
vs. ferrocene/ferrocenium, [NO]+ in CH2Cl2 solution has a redox potential of 1.00 V (or 1.46-1.48 V vs SCE)
vs. ferrocene/ferrocenium, [NO]+ in CH3CN solution has a redox potential of 0.87 V vs. (or 1.27-1.25 V vs SCE)
NOBF4 is a convenient oxidant because the byproduct NO is a gas, which can be swept from the reaction using a stream of N2. Upon contact with air, NO forms NO2, which can cause secondary reactions if it is not removed. NO2 is readily detectable by its characteristic orange color.

NO+ reacts readily with water to form nitrous acid HNO2.
Nitrous acid rapidly decomposes into nitrogen dioxide, nitric oxide, and water when in solution.
2 HNO2 → NO2 + NO + H2O
It also decomposes into nitric acid and nitrous oxide and water.
4 HNO2 → 2 HNO3 + N2O + H2O

Thanks Again
Best Regards

WITH ALL THESE REACTIONS IT IS NECESSARY AN ENGINE 8 STROKES ...

[sebosfato]

ahaha good one


If this document howtomakenitrogenhydroxide.pdf information is correct, you are saying that you are not using an electrolyte. But states that the exhaust gases (containing No and No2) should pass thru the water thus it should create nitric acid witch is will behave as electrolyte right? You mean by no electrolyte the non use of koh or nah ... Right?

[tutanka]

ahaha good one


If this document howtomakenitrogenhydroxide.pdf information is correct, you are saying that you are not using an electrolyte. But states that the exhaust gases (containing No and No2) should pass thru the water thus it should create nitric acid witch is will behave as electrolyte right? You mean by no electrolyte the non use of koh or nah ... Right?

Sorry .. but you don't work on 10Kw of H2 creation with only 100W?? Now you are interested to my work??

[Slovenia]

Tutanka,

You are a very cool wise fellow. This thread is much more fun than watching television because of the interaction of the many different personalities and attitudes. You have something everyone wants. Most people expect others to give much more than they themselves are willing to give but are blind to their own selfishness and the beat goes on.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[sebosfato]

Yes, actually even more than that but we have some complications to solve yet, like you may have too, i imagine. But man i'm interested in everything related . I'm however more curious and surprised than worried.

I'm not working against you, I'm working for maybe we can join forces together if possible...

[tutanka]

Yes, actually even more than that but we have some complications to solve yet, like you may have too, i imagine. But man i'm interested in everything related . I'm however more curious and surprised than worried.

I'm not working against you, I'm working for maybe we can join forces together if possible...

Sebo..... OK.... but that project is finished.. all is explained !! Maybe you can work to my other project. With Oneminde we are talking possibilty to developed an direct ammonia fuel cell