Bedini Earth Light

[vintasalo]

dielectrics...!!!

Hey Guys...

Good to see everyone on here still plugging away, Yet I still believe in dielectrics.. and i think no one is realizing the potential. Everything in life is Simple. They looked into the atom and realized it was not the smallest element and that the pixel is what they had found.

Look how a pan with teflon can cook and transfer energy into your food without it adhearing to the pan its self. Almost the same concept could go for the Cathode of any cell. Open a d battery and you will find a piece of paper seperating the cathode. DIELECTRICS..

Spray the Mag with TEFLON and put the magnesium and copper in water, BAM
Physics say yes
I say yes
What say you?

[plengo]

I played with the idea of using a empty lead acid battery and i filled it with my mix. here is the video. Big Crystal Cell from new lead acid battery with no acid - YouTube

Great work Ib, can you describe what is the electrolyte you created and added to the battery?

I just bought a clean battery to perform the exact same experiment but I need to use the correct formula before I try different and one and keep buying batteries that cost around $40.

Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

Plengo, this cell is very new and under much testing. Using a clean 12 volt battery was a wonderful idea that John and Chuck had. I just added my simple formula to a clean 12 volt battery to see what would happen. If you must know the formula is very simple, you might already have it. I do think I mention it before on this forum but in the past months i’ve started to look into it more seriously. I didn’t want to revert to just water and i knew oil was protective so I needed something that gave me the best of both worlds. The reason why oil and water don’t mix is because water is polar and oil is non-polar so i needed something that was polar and non-polar at the same time. This lead me to detergents. Yes what is inside this clean lead acid battery is nothing more than laundry detergent. Its “Sun tropical breeze”- purple bottle- from Walmart. I’m sure just about any detergent will work. Detergents are both polar and non-polar at the same time. I do not add any salts just straight up detergent. So far from my testing the detergent does not eat away at the magnesium, i’ve been taking measurements of the magnesium in detergent to see if it loses its thickness and so far it has not. Aluminum also works well in detergent. The only thing that happens is that the magnesium turns black but it does not fall apart, it’s when the magnesium turns white is when it falls apart. Like i said this cell is under much testing, it started off at 7 volts and is now down to around 5.5 volts. I can still light LED just fine but think it might go down some more. The reason why i think its going down is that the detergent is very thick so it takes time to settle in the 12 volt battery. This is the nature of lead acid batteries when you fill them up you must go back again and fill them up some more but this takes time with the detergent because it's so thick. It was real pain to put the detergent in. As for John and Chucks clean lead acid battery i think they just use regular water. I was going to try distilled water but from my testing laundry detergent seems to work very well. salts would not do any good in the lead acid battery as it might start to clump up on the plates and hinder performance. The good news is lead is good against corrosion too. I will be studying this cell even more and the good news is that when i’m done testing it will be easy to clean because it already contains the cleaner in it. Also adding water should help to boost some current but not too much water.

[plengo]

@Ib,

thank you for the explanation of the bi-polar logic, Very interesting.

I wonder also what would be your natural intuition to why water has this nature. Since you know the work of the professor explaining the segregation of water molecules causing an electrostatic effect, do you think somehow we are extracting that energy with our dry cells? would that be more like the water cell cases?

I just have not cracked what you are looking for in the effect you observed with the salt cell without water, in the sense, that you probably have a nice theory why it works so well dry and you are trying to figure out how to scale, may be?

Any way, thank you for your work. I am in no way stopped in time even if this forum seems quiet or not. This stuff of experimentation is a wonderful hobby and mind inquisitive problem.

Fausto.

[ibpointless2]

@Ib,

thank you for the explanation of the bi-polar logic, Very interesting.

I wonder also what would be your natural intuition to why water has this nature. Since you know the work of the professor explaining the segregation of water molecules causing an electrostatic effect, do you think somehow we are extracting that energy with our dry cells? would that be more like the water cell cases?

I just have not cracked what you are looking for in the effect you observed with the salt cell without water, in the sense, that you probably have a nice theory why it works so well dry and you are trying to figure out how to scale, may be?

Any way, thank you for your work. I am in no way stopped in time even if this forum seems quiet or not. This stuff of experimentation is a wonderful hobby and mind inquisitive problem.

Fausto.

Hi Plengo glad to hear you still work on cells.

The reason for me making the cell that did not need constant water was to prove that i could do it. The energy is there but some ways of getting that energy is destructive to the electrodes. I've gotten some new tool in that will help me determine if a metal is corroding in cell, i'm uploading a video right now about this. I'm looking into things much more deeply especially the water based cells. I want to determine for fact that metal is corroding by taking measurements of its thickness and its weight. So far i've gotten some interesting finds that will help to develop a better cell. My view is that the electrode will pour out energy so long as you don't destroy the electrode by decaying it.

I keep a journal of the cells i build. here is a piece of what i wrote in this journal. Excuse the grammar and misspellings.

---------------------------------------------------------

Most of the time you get bubbles that form on the magnesium when its in water. These bubbles are hydrogen bubbles and oxygen bubbles form on the copper electrode. It simple really the battery is a battery but since electrons are flowing in the electrolyte of water you also get hydrogen cell. The electricity it produces also breaks apart the water but since its little electricity you get little hydrogen. Now the laundry detergent really doesn’t do this. it could be due to the lack of water but not having bubbles form is a good thing since bubbles take up space on the electrode and limit current. Its also a good thing becuase the bubbles create a trapped pocket of a gas and this creates depletion layers. These layers are the reason why the top of the metal where the water meets the air shows corrosion much quicker. At the top is a depletion layer of water that has a higher concentrion of water. The more water you have in one area the more corrosion it will create. It also just happens that water is attracted to electricity so a heavy concentration of water builds up around the electrodes. Now you have bubbles that have depletion layers on them of heavy water concentration and you have water being attracted to the electricity you’re making so you have a heavy conentraion of water around your electrodes..............
---------------------------------------------------------

[magnegenix]

ibpointless2....

I saw your reply to Fausto and was wondering WHY detergent would work the same way your other (water and oil, water and salt) experiments worked. I looked up the ingredients of your detergent...which is probably similar to other detergents as well:

Sun Burst 2X Liquid Laundry Detergent – Tropical Breeze
Ingredients
Water
Methyl Ester Sulfonate
Palm Kernelamide DEA
Fragrance*
Quaternium-15
Sodium Gluconate
Optical Brightener
Methylchloroisothiazolinone
Methylisothiazolinone
Sodium Citrate

So what is all this stuff? If you google each of these, they end up being:
Water
Oils
Salts
Salt Based Preservatives
Preservatives

oh...and the tropical breeze, it's just a fragrance and I'm not sure how they got that in the bottle ...

So it's effectively a salt / water / oil / (and arguably tropical breeze) combination, which you're diluting with more water.

The oil in the soap is the surfactant which acts as a corrosion inhibitor. See this article Anti-corrosion Ability of Surfactants: A Review

The vegetable oil in your previous tests seem to have been acting as a surfactant as well and I guess that's why you saw the metals not exhibiting corrosion in those tests you did.

This is great work that you've done here....

[ibpointless2]

ibpointless2....

I saw your reply to Fausto and was wondering WHY detergent would work the same way your other (water and oil, water and salt) experiments worked. I looked up the ingredients of your detergent...which is probably similar to other detergents as well:

Sun Burst 2X Liquid Laundry Detergent – Tropical Breeze
Ingredients
Water
Methyl Ester Sulfonate
Palm Kernelamide DEA
Fragrance*
Quaternium-15
Sodium Gluconate
Optical Brightener
Methylchloroisothiazolinone
Methylisothiazolinone
Sodium Citrate

So what is all this stuff? If you google each of these, they end up being:
Water
Oils
Salts
Salt Based Preservatives
Preservatives

oh...and the tropical breeze, it's just a fragrance and I'm not sure how they got that in the bottle ...

So it's effectively a salt / water / oil / (and arguably tropical breeze) combination, which you're diluting with more water.

The oil in the soap is the surfactant which acts as a corrosion inhibitor. See this article Anti-corrosion Ability of Surfactants: A Review

The vegetable oil in your previous tests seem to have been acting as a surfactant as well and I guess that's why you saw the metals not exhibiting corrosion in those tests you did.

This is great work that you've done here....

I try to avoid adding more water to the detergent. I think it has enough water in it already. The vegetable oil has no real purpose other than to keep the water from the air and also to keep the water from evaporating.




@all

Here is a video of a cell that has detergent on bottom and oil on top. measuring corrosion of magnesium in detergent - YouTube

In the video i show measurements that the magnesium is not corroding while exposed to the detergent and a voltage reading is at the end of the video.

[ibpointless2]

@ magnegenix
That was a very interesting read about Surfactant's.

[magnegenix]

Has anyone tested "painting" the electrode metals (magnesium etc) to prevent corrosion? Here's an article on The Principles of Magnesium Corrosion Protection

[ibpointless2]

Crystal battery runs led over night and lights a 12V LED - YouTube

[ibpointless2]

Have we been lied to about galvanic corrosion?

I've got the tools to measure depletion of a metal but some of the results are differing from what is accepted knowledge. I was thought about corrosion in books, on the internet with animations, and word of mouth. But that's the problem, no real world results. I've been taught to accept what the books, and the animations, and what people say. But what if they're wrong? Corrosion is a billion dollar industry and to say different cuts into the back account of many. Sure we all seen a nail rust but we can't compare that to magnesium in a different solution. All i'm saying is that my real world testing is not adding up to what i've been taught. What if our enemy is not water? What if i was wrong? Do the numbers lie? Its right in front of me, clear as day, but I don't fully understand it. Was i and many others lied to? Why are some cells electrodes gaining weight instead of loosing it do to decay? Why is the electrodes getting thicker but yet still giving me energy? I'm left to rethink what i know and i must ask the questions. What is corrosion? What is galvanic's? Is it really what the textbooks say or is it the real world example i have in front of me?

[magnegenix]

What is it that you're seeing or that you've measured that doesn't make sense?

[plengo]

Have we been lied to about galvanic corrosion?

I've got the tools to measure depletion of a metal but some of the results are differing from what is accepted knowledge. I was thought about corrosion in books, on the internet with animations, and word of mouth. But that's the problem, no real world results. I've been taught to accept what the books, and the animations, and what people say. But what if they're wrong? Corrosion is a billion dollar industry and to say different cuts into the back account of many. Sure we all seen a nail rust but we can't compare that to magnesium in a different solution. All i'm saying is that my real world testing is not adding up to what i've been taught. What if our enemy is not water? What if i was wrong? Do the numbers lie? Its right in front of me, clear as day, but I don't fully understand it. Was i and many others lied to? Why are some cells electrodes gaining weight instead of loosing it do to decay? Why is the electrodes getting thicker but yet still giving me energy? I'm left to rethink what i know and i must ask the questions. What is corrosion? What is galvanic's? Is it really what the textbooks say or is it the real world example i have in front of me?

Ib, please don't take my answer as a criticism or I am playing funny with your findings.

I think galvanic is nothing more than physical friction of substances and the effects of it, at a molecule level I would say.

The rate will be in proportion to the motion with the exception where pressure is more. So in less pressures points, corrosion occurs more.

Water is never statically not moving when a piece of metal is emerged. Why magnetism has to be seen as only existing in lines somewhere, water itself has its magnetic and static inner pressures over anything in its mist, which can cause friction and therefore corrosion.

Crystal cells are showing that they indeed provide many paths of higher pressure for water to flow and release its potential to the cell. This causes the cell to grow with time. Water and its decomposed elements are the food.

Fausto.

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Weight of water vapor

I think you get mesurement error because of the magnesium ability to suck in water to form the magnesium carbonate. Sorry...Maybe I'm wrong but I need proofs. I'm not a skeptic, I'm realistic!

[ibpointless2]

What is it that you're seeing or that you've measured that doesn't make sense?

Electrodes are not decaying when shorted out in certain electrolyte, for example the metals are not loosing weight or thickness. Instead What i see is metals gaining weight and thickness. Its almost opposite of what i come to expect from a galvanic battery. Or how a dry crystal cell can die for a few days and then come back to life and run a load like nothing happen for months.


weighing Electrodes of crystal cell to show no corrosion - YouTube