Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Nice

Jason,

Nice, look forward to seeing your pictures. You need to tune the can to 60 hz for USA and 50 hz for Europe. If the can is tuned properly and the ring is built and adjusted to the right specifications then the ring will make the can sing at either 400 hz or 300 hz depending on whether you are in USA or Europe.

Thanks for sharing with us!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Well got the red bull can mounted to my drill and top cut off. Tried to tune it using some test sounds from the internet over a smartphone. The nail vibrated a little at 400 Hz. But the phone had to be almost touching the can. Not sure this is the right way to do this. Later tonight I will bring wifes laptop and some speakers out to shop and see if I can find a program to try bunches of Hz. Frequencies. Any ideas?? Will also post pictures later. Can't upload off of phone.
Jason

[RAMSET]

Still traveling

Cornfused
The proper tuning method is to get "feedback" sound off your mains! [feedback may not be the right word here, that "HUM" sound]
You want this device tuned to your particular mains frequency!!

If you tune it to a manufactured freq it may not work??
Every house can have a slight variation of the power !

It has been suggested to use the audio hum that you hear in your speakers when they are turned up?
Like an amplifier [guitar] does before you send the signal thru!

I am working out of town for at least another week,when I get home I plan On getting real busy Tuning ,I am grabbing one of my sons small guitar amps for this ,but Wrtner has posted several methods for doing this [read thru his early posts in this thread]

Thanks for posting.

Chet

[cornfused]

Slovenia, thanks for the tips, I'm in USA, 25 miles east of evansville indiana, so i will be tuning to 60 Hz. Chet, I understand what you mean by the humming. I guess the can should hum when the "feedback" is played through speakers? The shop has a stereo in it that can be put on an aux. Channel, with no input it may hum if the volume is turned up, ill try later. What do ya all think the optimum distance from the speakers would be? If the can gets in resonance to 60 Hz, would it vibrate farther away (like 8 feet or so ) from speaker? I did notice if I flick the can, it rings by itself. Do ya think I could cut sand to try to match the sound coming from the speakers by ear? That'll be my last resort. I'll look up wrenters post to get some ideas, thanks to all and I will post pics later, got to get kids baths and put to bed,then dad can play more!
Jason

[RAMSET]

You got it!!!!!!!

Jason
That sounds correct ,get the hum going ...........
I don't believe distance will play to much of a role ,a 60hz wave is the size of the planet peak to peak [slight exaggeration].
But volume will be important , getting the can to react at softer volume settings will yield the best results IMNSHO.

You do understand the nail hanging part [dimensions ,position] ??
well its actually more like a pin ?

Thanks
Chet

[cornfused]

I really can't say I understand the nail-pin thing, becuse I've never done it but I've only tried it once just to see what happens, and didn't put much effort into it. I'm sure ill get the hang of it with ya alls help. Haven't forgot the pic,s will put them here in a bit.
Jason

[RAMSET]

tuning question

Slovenia
Can you run thru your current understanding of Tuning protocol??
I tried to cut and paste from your PDF but this Computer is NG [I'm away from home]

One thing I am fuzzy on is Professor Savic says the Pendulum should vibrate
as it leans against the thinner end of the can??

Is the Pin and pendulum acting as a "Pick up" ??
Extra sensitive vibrating before the can actually does??

I'm confused on this point and it does seem critical ??

Help

Thanks
Chet
PS
I see Jason posted a similar question

[cornfused]

pictures

Here are my pictures, not much to see really. Hope i done it right. The site says im almost out of room for pics so they may be huge! gonna go mess with tuning, I'll post results later.

Cheers, Jason

I plan on mounting it to the inside of a five gallon bucket when I get it all together.
I did'nt get to town today for a 20 oz. can, maybe tomorrow.

[Slovenia]

Tinypic

Hi Jason,

Nice pics. Use tinypics to upload your pics to the forum. All you have to do is just paste a link on the forum to your pic and tinypics, and it doesn't take any room at Energetic, so you can post as many pics as you like. We'd like to see all your pics. If you send all your pics to me at fiditti@gmail.com, I'll post them for you. We are interested in your project. Your can looks very good.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Here are my pictures, not much to see really. Hope i done it right. The site says im almost out of room for pics so they may be huge! gonna go mess with tuning, I'll post results later.

Cheers, Jason

I plan on mounting it to the inside of a five gallon bucket when I get it all together.
I did'nt get to town today for a 20 oz. can, maybe tomorrow.

[Slovenia]

Re: Tuning Question

Hi Chet, (Be Glad To.)

1) Can you run thru your current understanding of Tuning protocol??

Response:
The main tuning thing with these cans I think is the length. The skins are so thin, it's hard to take off much more material without really messing up the cans. Anyway, I do know that the paint has to be removed from the area where the can is going to be riding next to the ring. This will make the can conductive to the ring. Mr. "C" said that the top of the can only needed to be sanded and at a bevel to sharpen the top edge inward. Initially Mr. "C" said to cut the can to a length of 150mm and then later to 200mm for USA. I haven't had any more clarification on that lately. So, I'd recommend cutting the can to 150mm length to start with. Then sand the top outer edge of your can taking great care not to deform it in any way. It's easy to deform it. Once you're happy happy with your sand job and length, fix your can to a base to stabilize it. Now, hang a very fine thread with a small 25mm nail from the ceiling and/or other support structure. The nail needs to be on the outside opposing edge of your can away from the 60 hz sound wave you are going to fire in the direction of the can. The nail is only to slightly touch the top edge of the can. The purpose of the nail is to act as an anvil against the can so you can hear something when the can is forced to vibrate. Without the nail, it would be much harder to hear anything. You are supposed to sand the can until you have the optimum ringing ability. When the can is tuned, it should vibrate the nail really well. If it's not vibrating the nail you either don't have the can tuned well or you don't have it cut to the right height. Take your speakers and point them at the side of the can opposite the nail and from approximately twelve inches away. Your can should vibrate the nail if tuned properly.


2) One thing I am fuzzy on is Professor Savic says the Pendulum should vibrate as it leans against the thinner end of the can??

Response:
No, it's actually the can that vibrates against the nail and the nail make a slight chatter on the edge of the can as the can vibrates to let you know the can is vibrating.


3) Is the Pin and pendulum acting as a "Pick up" ??

Response:
Not to my understanding. The can is picking up vibration and vibrating against the nail.

4) Extra sensitive vibrating before the can actually does??

Response:
The can needs to be sanded and cut to the proper length or it won't ring at 60 hz.

5) I'm confused on this point and it does seem critical ??

Response:
The can needs to vibrate at 60 hz for USA and the nail allows you to hear the can vibration. There's slight ringing as the can vibrates against the nail.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia
Can you run thru your current understanding of Tuning protocol??

One thing I am fuzzy on is Professor Savic says the Pendulum should vibrate
as it leans against the thinner end of the can??

Is the Pin and pendulum acting as a "Pick up" ??
Extra sensitive vibrating before the can actually does??

I'm confused on this point and it does seem critical ??

Help

Thanks
Chet
PS
I see Jason posted a similar question

[cornfused]

ringing at 40 hz.

Ok. I have been playing with tuning just to get a feel for it. Seems my can is ringing at 40 Hz. The nail bounces off can at this freq. At 12" away. The can is roughly 5.880" long from the start of the radius at the bottom to where I cut it. My stereo will hum like a guitar amp if put in video mode with a cord plugged into the mic Socket, so I suppose that is 60 Hz. It will even squeal like hell if you turn the volume up . Anyway i was sanding on the can and actually sanded a hole in it where there was a slight ding. So I had to cut off 3/16" of length. Still couldnt get the nail to move so I went to WWW.testsounds and started to play different freq Through my stereo to try to see where my can was as far as freq. 40 Hz got good results. 50 & 60 hz. nothing. Now since the can is too short, I'm gonna try cutting some more off to confirm that it will lower the resonate freq. Of the can. Slovenia, those 2 pictures were the only ones I took. I will take more and get one of those tinypic accounts for the next can now that I got a feel for what I need to do. Also, when I cut the top off the first time, I cut the bevel off,where it gets narrower to go to the lid. Ya all think we should leave the bevel on? This may make the can sturdier. Maybe I was supposed to leave it. I think I will on the next can. It can always be cut off. More later!
Jason

[cornfused]

I cut 1/2" off of length and no longer resonates at 40 Hz. Did seem to want to shake the nail a little at 30 Hz. Must be between 30 and 40 or lower. No reaction at above 40 Hz. Time for a new can..............
Jason

[Slovenia]

Bevel Query

You want to remove the bevel. The top of the can needs to be able to vibrate around and the bevel makes it to rigid. I asked Mr. "C" about this. Thanks for sharing. It's great to have you on board with us!!

Also, when I cut the top off the first time, I cut the bevel off,where it gets narrower to go to the lid. Ya all think we should leave the bevel on? This may make the can sturdier. Maybe I was supposed to leave it. I think I will on the next can. It can always be cut off. More later!
Jason

[Slovenia]

Good Job!!

Good Job!!

I cut 1/2" off of length and no longer resonates at 40 Hz. Did seem to want to shake the nail a little at 30 Hz. Must be between 30 and 40 or lower. No reaction at above 40 Hz. Time for a new can..............
Jason

[RAMSET]

Validation

Jason
You're validating the PDF tuning protocol with your Findings!!
Specifically that we in the USA need a longer can for this device!

This is very encouraging ,as some have felt the can will not ring at all,
You have shown it rings at different lengths to different frequencies .
{quite readily it seems?]
Some felt the signal much to big [ELF] to be able to tune to this can??

This is wonderful news!


Thanks

@ Slovenia Thanks for the answers!! This just keeps getting better!!

Chet

[boguslaw]

I cut 1/2" off of length and no longer resonates at 40 Hz. Did seem to want to shake the nail a little at 30 Hz. Must be between 30 and 40 or lower. No reaction at above 40 Hz. Time for a new can..............
Jason

Right.Do not dring Red Bull too frequently though ....
Slovenia, can you post any picture how is can placed against nail ? is that placed horizontally or vertically ? should it be mounted in final location or just placed in vice for testing ?