Gray Tube Replication

[Electrotek]

Calculating the resonant frequency of the gird won't be easy, since an additional conductor inside a capacitor will change the dielectric constant. Ie, one grid inside another, between it and the inner terminal. The inductance will also be difficult to determine, without knowing how many wires go to the motor coils, and why. But if you have the right meter, you can measure the inductance of an ignition coil and correlate that with the reactance of the cap it charges. Not much help, but that's how I see it.

edit: Patent #1219517 shows how to make a capacitance meter, using a Wheatstone Bridge. Perhaps the best approach is to just measure the capacitance of a CSET.

[What The Flux]

If anybody draws out on paper the positive potential of the HV rod side and the + potential of the grid side and where it is all located - basically simultaneously at every point of the grid at the same time (extension of the dipole or cap 38)...and all over the HV rod at the same time..you will see that they are of course repelling each other.

If the grid wasn't a grid and was just a point, it couldn't "squeeze" down all around the rod to give a biased pre-compression before it is even triggered and recompressed against the diode. The cap 38 point would just repel the potential at HV rod at that one point and wouldn't do a good job at repelling it all over giving it a pre-compressed nature.

Aaron, could you indulge me in an explanation of the concept of "compression" and "biased pre-compression"? It's obviously different than "potential". I don't have enough of a concept of this to understand why you need to have it fully surrounding the anode ("squeezing it"). I keep reading it, but it ain't sinking in.

[Guest]

A digital LCR meter comes in handy, I promise.... Get one asap, price is not too steep nowadays, it is worth every cent when calculating.

[freeukpower]

Congratulations to “Mlurye” in posting 703 to this group you said

“And by the way Spark in Gray's tube should NEVER jump from anodes to the grid.”

Totally correct, but no one has picked up on it ??? Why ??

Ok to give you all some history about my self. I built my first Tesla coil while at school in the late 60’s early 70’s and read extensively about Tesla. Later I qualified in Mechanical Engineering specialising in Pneumatics & Hydraulics. One job that I had locally involved running 3 unequally sized Mercury Arc Rectifiers ( 600 V at 300A 200A & 100A). There was a long procedure for starting them up and putting them on line. One thing was to check that there was nothing connected to the transmission lines before connecting the rectifiers. On this day I remember I was rushed so started them all up and threw all the open frame knife switches nearly simultaneously. There was a explosion and pressure blast totally out of proportion to the 600 V DC 600amp supply.

Knowing that Tesla had seen Eddison personnel killed by just such a DC blast and had designed switches to cope with it. Tesla’s reasoning is that the first connection of DC generates an electrical pressure wave down the cable which hits the end and is reflected back to the switch station. Now drop the second switch in at this critical moment (as I had done) and you have many times the potential of the steady state DC.

The next part of this concerns the same equipment. Trying to sort out an unrelated problem I connected an oscilloscope to the large brass bush that the insulated cable went through the wall of the blast poof switch room. Much to my surprise when ever any large motors were switched off or on, I would see several hundred volts potential on the scope trace. This stared me off looking at the potential of capturing energy on a collecting grid surrounding a high voltage DC conductor which has the flow of current interrupted.

Can you see the correlation to the CSET?

In all the CSET’s I have built energy is apparent but it can get really scary once you move the grids out beyond the spark zone and get a plasma discharge. How to get the discharge ?? short duration DC pulses.

[boguslaw]

freeukpower

don't worry,seems that nobody is listening here but somehow the original idea remain and later emerge again sligthy modified.

How about that : on HV rod inside CSET there is a series of pancake coils connected from center to rod.Each one is nearby but sufficient gap is made between them. The outer end of each spiral pancake is connected to primary of copper sheet wound in 2 or 3 turns forming spiral (looking like tube or photos) .
Of course that spiral is connected to output.

Now, the main problem is that we don't know how original CSET looked like.
I don't even assume that such connection is correct, rather from Tesla magnifying transformer and transmitters spark gap should go before pancake coils. Though I'm sure that magnifying transformer is the solution here. CSET is kind of transmitter used by Tesla.

[mlurye]

freeukpower,
Thank you for sharing. My statement was based on the research I did, but now it is supported by your real life experience.
If it's possible could you show your setup for testing SCET? (at least one of them)

[Aaron]

picture

Aaron, could you indulge me in an explanation of the concept of "compression" and "biased pre-compression"? It's obviously different than "potential". I don't have enough of a concept of this to understand why you need to have it fully surrounding the anode ("squeezing it"). I keep reading it, but it ain't sinking in.

Hi WTF, I'll draw up some picture. I don't know what else to call it.

[Aaron]

nobody listening? LOL

Congratulations to “Mlurye” in posting 703 to this group you said

“And by the way Spark in Gray's tube should NEVER jump from anodes to the grid.”

Totally correct, but no one has picked up on it ??? Why ??

In all the CSET’s I have built energy is apparent but it can get really scary once you move the grids out beyond the spark zone and get a plasma discharge. How to get the discharge ?? short duration DC pulses.

The plasma discharge has nothing to do with the spark gap size. I have shown the plasma discharge which will automatically be a short duration pulse because of how the caps are FORCED to discharge quickly. It is so quick because there is no impedance when the negative vacuum sucks it out.

Why noone has picked up on it? I guess nobody has read what I have stated for the last 4-5 years on this.

I posted this way back on Icube network and is the WFC doc that still floats around. This is almost 5 years ago...anyone listening?

"qiman13
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:32 pm

Normal hv with current (electrons) went into the tube. When the switch was closed at the top of the low potential rod, the hv potential that were built up in the tip of the hv potential rod would jump across, slam right
into the carbon resistor. The electrons would stay in the circuit. 90 degrees perpendicular to the current direction, the Aether component of the current (without electrons) would radiate 90 degrees outward and this is what the grids intercepted. That Aetheric component would be carried out to the inductive load (pulsed coils on the motor) and back to ground. It was really like popping a balloon. The air would go out and that would be the Aetherial component and the rubber left behind would be the electrons. It is literally breaking the "electric" and "magnetic" component of electricity apart....

If we take a balloon that is highly pressurized (high voltage) and push our hand on it against a wall, the balloon flattens. The pressure is directed 90 degrees perpendicular to the direction that we are pushing the balloon.
Eventually, the balloon pops and the air (aether - voltage potential) is released from the current (balloon rubber) traveling outwards to the grid. The balloon rubber is still there in the circuit (rods is the hand and the wall). In Gray's circuit, instead of the circuit creating straight radiant potential, it made regular HV in the HV cap and the tube split the Aether from the electrons. This was the exact method."

I have also stated this in this thread and have shown the real plasma discharges (not sparks) but plasma discharges between extremely small gap and over 1/4 gap" does not matter the gap size in any way, shape or form...cause the capacitor to discharge fast enough and you have it. Can be done with diodes or spark gaps.

And simply making a fast pulse is not going to translate to a disruptive discharge. A single charge cluster firing all at once (no spark leading or trailing allowed)...is the plasma discharge.

With any real charge behind the load (cap 38 or battery)....as soon as ANY thing leaves the rods...and the potential that leaves the rod is dense enough, the cap 38 or battery MUST discharge into it through the coil charging it and moving to ground at the LV rod.

I'm sure that others can say nobody is listening too as we all have our ideas and still everyone wants to ignore the FACT that the HV power supply will be able to jump to the grid to charge cap 38 when LV rod is unswitched.

[Beshires1]

I'm sure that others can say nobody is listening too as we all have our ideas and still everyone wants to ignore the FACT that the HV power supply will be able to jump to the grid to charge cap 38 when LV rod is switched off.

The Hv power can't jump to grids and charge cap 38 because, according to the patent the connection to the grids is also broken along with the low voltage rod supply, the tube is effectively switched off. This allows the cap 16 to charge and because as the rapidly collapsing field of the electro magnets have nowhere elts to go the Back EMF charges capacitor 38.

I'm sure it can jump to grids and charge the cap thru a connected coil, but not if the CSET is connected properly to Greys commutator and it does what it is susposed to.

[What The Flux]

Jumping to grids

With any real charge behind the load (cap 38 or battery)....as soon as ANY thing leaves the rods...and the potential that leaves the rod is dense enough, the cap 38 or battery MUST discharge into it through the coil charging it and moving to ground at the LV rod.

I'm sure that others can say nobody is listening too as we all have our ideas and still everyone wants to ignore the FACT that the HV power supply will be able to jump to the grid to charge cap 38 when LV rod is unswitched.

Again, I'm not doubting that your experiments do what you say they do, but I still think there is doubt as to whether Gray's CSET specifically had an arc to the grids. I'm encouraged by freeukpower's comments.

When I go back and look through Mark McKay's copious notes, I see that the power supply, based on the best info, was about 3000v. As I pointed out in post 691, you would need about 7500V to jump a 1/4" gap to the grids.

The fact that he's using ignition coils doesn't mean he would be getting 10KV+ at the CSET. He was using the coils to charge the front side cap to 3KV. You may get 10KV unloaded, but as soon as you start charging a huge cap, you won't see these peaks. At least this is what I've found here on my humble work bench.

@All
Why do so many people seem to feel nobody's listening to them? I think you have no idea how many people are listening. Just because we haven't added your theory to the New Testament, doesn't mean we think it's bunk. Personally I value all the ideas here, even the ones I'm making arguments against.

[Electrotek]

I still say that the patent states that the "discharge transfers to the grid". This means that the spark starts between the rods, then moves to sparking between the HV rod and the grid. The discharge potential across a 1/4" gap is irrelevant. When a capacitor is discharged through a HV spark, the spark puffs way up to more than the 1/4" radius needed to jump to the grid. This is plainly shown by the Water Sparkplug pictures.

And anyone who builds a workable system has a genuine Invention, whether it matches Gray's system or not. There's always room to improve on any patent, or to come up with alternative uses for a given component.

edit: Here's a picture of my Puff Spark, after the Radiant flash and without a grid. The spark over potential is based on the distance to the grid from the outside of this plasma ball.

[IMG][/IMG]

[mlurye]

And anyone who builds a workable system has a genuine Invention, whether it matches Gray's system or not. There's always room to improve on any patent, or to come up with alternative uses for a given component.

Electrotek, I'm 100% with you on this one. More different ways we'll try, closer we are to the solution of this puzzle.

[mlurye]

Just a little summary where we are now:
1. We can pop coils like Gray did.
2. We can build motor based on HV impulses. (Beshires1 building real one , and my quick build spinning disk )
3. Static generator is reproducible, see one of my movies.

And now we need to nail the mystery of Gray’s tube, hope we collected enough information for that.

[Beshires1]

Read This From CSET Patent, This tells what happens and when it happens.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6018/...beworksrb2.jpg
Again, the high voltage doesn't jump to the grids and go thru the load to charge capacitor 38. It can't because the grid connection has been decoupled. If anyone experiences this then thats a anomaly because the grid is not disconnected from the load.

[Beshires1]

I still say that the patent states that the "discharge transfers to the grid". This means that the spark starts between the rods, then moves to sparking between the HV rod and the grid. The discharge potential across a 1/4" gap is irrelevant. When a capacitor is discharged through a HV spark, the spark puffs way up to more than the 1/4" radius needed to jump to the grid. This is plainly shown by the Water Sparkplug pictures.

And anyone who builds a workable system has a genuine Invention, whether it matches Gray's system or not. There's always room to improve on any patent, or to come up with alternative uses for a given component.

edit: Here's a picture of my Puff Spark, after the Radiant flash and without a grid. The spark over potential is based on the distance to the grid from the outside of this plasma ball.

[IMG][/IMG]

Tek I agree with you, A electrostatic coupling is any spark, or arc that travels thru air. And it does'nt have to necessarily be seen to be doing it either.