Electric Motor Secrets

[Eric]

steven that looks like some terrific machine work!!
i got a couple of questions to see if i understand your lingo. its called a flux generator, but i am assuming it doesnt output electricity directly, rather it runs as an attraction motor common shafted to a direct induction generator. that said i would agree it looks simmilar to peters but!............... and this is based on what i see in your pictures so more pics may be nesessary if i am wrong, your c shaped stator cores are spot on, but your rotor doesnt appear to close the magnetic loop. it only looks like a little piece of metal on the rotor connects to one "end" of the C shape stator in peters he has a longer bar imbedded in the rotor that connects "both ends" of the c into an O shape closing the magnetic lines in a loop in and around the single coil. alternativly if what i am seeing is actually a piece of metal in the rotor that magneticly connects one end of one c shape to the opposing c shape end then what you have is an O shape with two coils on eather side and then you might have the same problems illustrated in the direct induction motors beginning part of the dvd with with each opposing coil producing a CEMF in each other. again maybe i am drawing the wrong conclusions based on your pictures.

hope this helps!
Eric

[rickfriedrich]

Ok, I just found this forum again and thread.

Peter and I have exchanged two private emails in the last few days. I didn't get time to finish my last one, was up till 3am last night for this and don't have the time.

I find the nitpicking statements about me above to be ignorant of what I have shared and the work that I do for free for the benefit of everyone in this research. I have been working 24/7 on this stuff for about 3 years now and like John take it all very seriously and am not ignoring any claims or benefits people show scientifically.

Part of my concern is the same as John's, we tire of speculation not based on experimentation. This is not griping, it is about doing real science here Peter. There is so much claiming without showing, and so much dissapointment because of people not doing enough proper research and experimenting that many throw up their hands and give up because they soon think everyone is just making empty claims. I'm not going to quote the thousands of letters I get from people all over the world in support of this concern.

As any of you know who are on the lists, I spend much time encouraging research in these areas. I own and moderate some 12 or so lists, most of which are about these subjects. Much of my free time is taken up trying to keep them running decently and according to the scientific method. Hundreds of people are now experimenting when previous to this there was more fighting than building. These two fellows once told me it was hopeless for you guys because of how bad things were going. I think we all see some progress now for these efforts.

But I have also built many setups, and you will see some very interesting things not to long from now you can be sure. So please do not take any of my comments as just some triffling prejudice. I'm not nitpicking against the DVD, but you guys are doing that against what I have said. (One friend said to me, why bother, who even cares for the truth?) It is just not presented correctly in the places shown and needs to be changed. Not all of Teal's secrets are shown so that ad needs to be changed. Nothing in the patent is a secrete because it is public. There needs to also be carefulness to avoid overstatement, especially in anything not backed up sufficiently.

The motor shown needs to be removed because Gary and John told him that no Energenx property is to be used in the video because of previous contracts made, and etc. I was there when this was said. This was why they told Peter to show them the video first before publishing it. Am I against the motor? No! I am just saying we need to honor our friends.

Further, I point out that the video makes this motor look like Teal's motor which it is not. That needs to be corrected if Energenx will allow the video to continue to sell.

Again, I'm not against exploring possibilities like Teal. I have my own Teal motor replication in prosess. But I hate to see people confused as to what is what and who is who. If the movie is about Teal's motor being the solution, make sure there is no slight of hand in using Bedini's motor as some kind of proof for that claim. No Teal motor was shown running. No torque measurements were taken to back up the claim that it is better than normal DC. This is much more than a leap in logic. Griping?!? Just another diversion fallacy to add to these first ones.

I hope this is not about the good outweighing the bad. If we are going to progress with science we need to clear up the ambiguous, correct the mistaken, rebuke experimentless speculation, insist upon experimentation and demonstration, and above all, honor our commitments. I don't care for all the smooth talk, flattery, and what have you.

Rick

John,

Thanks for joining the group. It is sad to see some of your comments about me. You know I don't think you just fell off a hay wagon. You know that's not how I think about you. You are one of the great geniuses of our time. If you decide to publish your notes and release it as a new book, all of us would welcome that and I will be the first to buy a copy. Please include Ron Cole's motor that produces 1 hp for 13 watts. People should understand that design too. (Just so everyone knows, the motor I am referring to has a totally closed down magnetic field at least half the time.)

I do not apologize for publicizing what I know about these types of motors. That you would have done it differently is noted. My purpose is to educate and get people to think about these processes. My DVD accomplishes this purpose. I am not going to build a prototype, start a company, try and convince people that it works, raise money and file patents. That is what you are doing, and it is insanely hard. Instead, I hope to help thousands of people understand these principles so they can design and build their own.

These motors can produce super-efficient torque even without the recovery, but can be 9 times better with recovery. Your methods of recovery are the best ever developed and I acknowledge that in the DVD.

Please help us develop the best recovery circuits for these magnetic attraction motors. You know how to do this in your sleep, but we all still have a lot to learn from you.

I don't know what you didn't tell me, John. I have never questioned your motives for what you do. If you don't want to help because of what happened to Jim Watson, that's perfectly OK. But it would be really nice if you and Rick would quit griping because the rest of us are learning something and moving forward.

Peter

[Ted Ewert]

Can we all please stop this petty griping here. I really don't care to hear all this juvinile infighting. I would rather hear about something productive I could use to build a motor.
Let's see the schematic and specs on your new motor Rick. Tell us how we can build one too.
I hope Ben comes back and tells us more about his motor. That looks like it would be a real fun one to build.

Ted

Ok, I just found this forum again and thread.

Peter and I have exchanged two private emails...

Rick

[Peter Lindemann]

Rotary Attraction Motor Update

Hi all,

I've posted an update on the design for the rotary attraction motor. It works better and is easier to make than the "S" rotor. This design goes back to the ideas that worked very well in the Flux Motor. I hope this helps more people start building units that work.

Here is the link:

Rotary Attraction Motor Update

Peter

[Aaron]

On topic discussion

Hi Rick and all,

Welcome to the forum. I'll look forward to your postive contribution here of focusing on your replication attempts on the Teal motor concept if you care to share anything here. If not, that's cool too.

I think everyone knows how everyone feels now so we can focus on the topic.

I'm looking forward to learning more about attraction motor concepts. I'm fascinated by all of this.

Everyone here is welcome to start any threads on whatever "renewable energy" technologies you want. If someone else doesn't, I already have plans to start a new Bedini SG thread here, one that focuses on the plain non-charging school girl, and others. I'll probably even do a Hammel Spinner with a Bedini North Gate thread too because it is an open circuit (human being is part of the schematic, etc...) in that device... simple but demonstrates some profound concepts. More water gas stuff, etc...

I'm pretty busy with building my own business and am switching all my websites to a new server, etc... so I haven't been able to contribute a lot in the past week. After that is done, should be smooth sailing.

Anyway, if there is a specific topic you want to bring up and it doesn't deal with the content of concepts in Peter's DVD, please start a new thread.

I really appreciate all of your contributions. Especially those of you who are posting your experiences with hands on with this stuff. Keep it coming!!!

[nali2001]

To Eric

Tanks Eric. Well it is a generator and not a motor (well can be both at the same time – driving itself, using a little circuit, but that is not the point right now). To put it simple you have a stationary magnet (can be an electromagnet) and a stationary output coil. But they are not in contact and don't rotate so they don't interact. But on the rotor there are metal laminated parts that close the gap between the magnet source and output coil. So the metal parts on the rotor act as a gate or valve for the flux. So when the rotor rotates it periodically closes the flux loop from the magnets to the output coil. So it generates power. And since the magnet don't move and the coils don't move there is no increased mechanical load on the prime mover once you load the output coils, since Lenz Law does not ‘really’ apply. That theoretically means a model toy car electric motor could drive a huge generator. There is no increased load to the prime mover once you load the generators output coils. Well that is the idea. And like I said the ‘no-Lenz’ action seems to work, only thing is I found it hard to extract any real power from this system. So seen from above it looks like Peters flux motor, but it's not. The working can be understood here:
fluxgate generator
And if you would like to see more pictures for your understanding let me know.

Regards,
Steven

[nali2001]

To Lindemann

Hallo Peter I have seen your new design. This indeed would indeed work better maybe. And is more easy to make. But on the other hand we are looking at 'just' a regular Variable- or Switched reluctance motor are we not?
Nothing wrong with that of course, but as far as I see it the Bemf circuit is 'kind of' the only novel thing here. But these variable or switched reluctance drives are somewhat problematic to run and need smart driving circuits that can advance, elongate or retard the pulses on the fly based on system load and speed. Most of them also have a minute 'demagnetization' pulse to help speedup the collapse time of the coil/core section and so allow for higher rpm's. Since 'metal slowness' in flux change can be problematic.

http://www.energie.ch/themen/industrie/antriebe/sr.jpg

Switched Reluctance Drives

http://www.sovereign-publications.co...s/picture1.jpg

http://www.sapiensman.com/ESDictiona...ges/motor1.jpg

SWITCHED-RELUCTANCE MOTOR

SWITCHED RELUCTANCE MOTOR - Google Afbeeldingen Zoekmachine

Regards,
Steven

[k4zep]

Hi Steven,

What beautiful workmanship on your Ekland/fluxgate Generator......Unbelieveable craftmanship.....Wow! Do you remember how many hours you put into it?

Ben

[rickfriedrich]

Can we all please stop this petty griping here. I really don't care to hear all this juvinile infighting. I would rather hear about something productive I could use to build a motor.
Let's see the schematic and specs on your new motor Rick. Tell us how we can build one too.
I hope Ben comes back and tells us more about his motor. That looks like it would be a real fun one to build.

Ted

Ted, you're the one griping and being juvinile. If you don't care about science I can't help you. Now I have said what was necessary and need not say anything further. But I want nothing to do with speculation, hype, or science that is not accountable. If you want to build that is what we are doing and have been for years.

Not sure what new motor you are talking about. There are many setups. While I have special interest in torque and motors because of formerly being a mechanic, the last setup I mentioned was a multifacited Energizer. The motor element will be all used up in charging several batteries while it is self-maintained. I wrote what I did so far and will like to do when I get time. This is nothing new to me but is just a matter of time to clean up the table and wind some more coil and fix a commutator so I can film it without holding it by hand and messy looking string, etc. The addition of the window wire generator part is not a question of working but just how much more addititive will it be, and how much wire do I want to waste $$$ on this setup. No need for a schematic as I shared all the details of what I was doing and that should be fairly obvious. Just a matter of good timing.

I have a good idea of the ultimate setup, and it is similar to this one above but much better (this is all Bedini stuff, and just a combination of them). I have mentioned it recently on my lists, and will keep this info probably there as I don't have time to be on 50 lists that start up every minute.

I will do a full replication of John's latest setup after I get magnets that should be shipped today I believe. Maybe I'll do the earth cells too to verify for myself his research, which I have done many times (every time I have done this it always has turned out exactly the way he said it would--maybe sometimes better). Just don't push me at this time as I am very busy.

My last words on the DVD thing will probably be these, when the revision comes out correcting matters I'll remove the review on Sterling's website.

Rick

[Ted Ewert]

Ted, you're the one griping and being juvinile. If you don't care about science I can't help you. Now I have said what was necessary and need not say anything further. But I want nothing to do with speculation, hype, or science that is not accountable. If you want to build that is what we are doing and have been for years...
Rick

Thanks for straightening me out on that Rick. Love you too buddy.

Ted

[Ted Ewert]

Nice layout on your web site Peter, thanks. I have a rotor question. As with a solenoid, does the rotor pole piece center itself on the keeper? Would a wider pole piece be pulled along further?

[Eric]

yes i now have the same question from reading the recomended book "Solenoids, Electromagnets & Electromagnetic Windings" by charles n underhill page 75 section 36 "the calculation of maximum pull due to soleniod" it shows tha in a soleniod and plunger setup if the plunger is longer than the solenoid winding the plunger will continue to move untill its center of mass is lined up with the vertical center of mass of the coil hense more work can be performed. so now i am curious to find out if the same principle will apply to the curved surface of my rotor being pulled into the curved stator brush. meaning wiould a wider rotor just stop when its leading edge meets the ending edge of the stator brush or would the center line on the rotor continue untill it lines up with the center line of the stator brush.

hahaha i have time to write out these speculations as i have to wait untill monday or tuesday for my parts from the machinist!!!!. when i recieve them i will have 3 rotors to try. the stator brush is 70 deg so my 3 choices i planned for are 50,70, and 80 deg arc on the rotors. so i will be able to see if the 80 deg rotor will perform more work! if it doesnt then i will know that an entirely diferent set of rules will need to be found this particular geomitry.

right now while i am waiting for parts i am trying to see if i can use this same book to try and learn to caculate the gauss saturation point in my stator core then i want to see if the existing coil comes close to that point allready or can i go bigger later on. also i would like to wrap my head around the idea of how this saturation point affects my rotor power and speed, learn more about how these gauss lines factor into how the rotor gets pulled in, will the rotor only get pulled enough to provide a big enough race way for the lines of force present or will less lines of force continue in some fashion to perform work on a larger mass rotor untill centered. i did see an interesting question in the above posts about the possiblity of the core material not allowing the magnetic field to colapse fast enough possibly limiting the rpms of the motor. this i would like to learn about as well. although it could be possible to counter that by cutting the pulse duration shorter in the power stroke giving the core material enough time to colapse the field when the rotor finally finnishes its power stroke and needs to be released. hopfully my new tunable optical comutator i am waiting for will answer this as well.

cheers!!
Eric

[John_Bedini]

Ted, Sorry we were asked to keep this forum to Peter's designs only and the Bedini recovery for that design. Rick has built many different motors, and I might add very advanced one's. If you look you can find many forums on advanced motors. I was asked not to post anything that would take away from what your trying to learn right now on reluctance motors. I will be posting some running machines later in the advanced group's.
Sorry you feel this way as sometimes we all have disagreements with things, it does not mean we are not friends. Peter has collected a wealth of information over the years. People are only now starting to look at the energy field because of the energy situation we face now.
John

Can we all please stop this petty griping here. I really don't care to hear all this juvinile infighting. I would rather hear about something productive I could use to build a motor.
Let's see the schematic and specs on your new motor Rick. Tell us how we can build one too.
I hope Ben comes back and tells us more about his motor. That looks like it would be a real fun one to build.

Ted

[Aaron]

New Bedini Threads

Hi John,

I just started about 5 Bedini threads here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/

You can see the list. Schoolgirl, SG Simplified, Oscillators, Cap Discharge versions, and Advanced. Post anything you want in those or even start your own thread. Maybe the Bedini Advanced thread is appropriate for what you can share in the advanced groups.

[Ted Ewert]

That's fine with me John. I realize we're all human, and I'm not bothered by any of it. I was just trying to steer the conversation back to motor talk.
I think we would all be eager to hear what your impressions and thoughts are concerning the Teal motor, and also about the solenoid motor you built. I realize you're busy, but we'll take what ever applicable sage bone you toss our way.

Ted

Ted, Sorry we were asked to keep this forum to Peter's designs only and the Bedini recovery for that design. Rick has built many different motors, and I might add very advanced one's. If you look you can find many forums on advanced motors. I was asked not to post anything that would take away from what your trying to learn right now on reluctance motors. I will be posting some running machines later in the advanced group's.
Sorry you feel this way as sometimes we all have disagreements with things, it does not mean we are not friends. Peter has collected a wealth of information over the years. People are only now starting to look at the energy field because of the energy situation we face now.
John