Figuera Device, Part G Continuum.( Serious Builders Only)

[Ufopolitics]

Signal differences...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFnzTDzJ9nY[/VIDEO]

Hello all, UFO here is the test you requested, i don't pretend to understand scopes, please let me know if you need anything further.

You can definitely see and feel the opposite feeding which will be necessary to cause induction on secondaries, well done everyone.

Regards Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,


Thanks for making test video!..

Now related to Both signals I am seeing a clear difference between both.

Channel 1 (Yellow) looks great!!...Its short peak is almost flat...like is supposed to, since you have two comm elements connected together for both outputs terminal (So it is 2X Time on Top)...Plus it is above zero, always positive.

However, Channel 2 (Blue) is not right...it is almost a "saw tooth" signal (no flat top), plus it is almost all below zero (like 80% negative) And the rise is steeper than fall (not symmetrically up-down, but more inclined to left side, rise)

I see the timing alignment right though...related to one low while other high and so on, within same vertical line (time) alignment.

I noticed your Channel 2 is at 500 mV while Channel 1 is at 5.0 V...that is NOT good, both Channels need to be set at same, exact Voltage levels, plus same timing value for both.

Make sure both Probes are equally set in Attenuation Mode (1X, 5X, 10X etc..On Equipment Settings as also on Probe itself small switch), it seems like you have Ch1 at 1X and Ch 2 at 10X.

Also make sure Both Bulbs are exactly the same kind, same spec's.

Please redo that test video making sure Both Channels are equally set...Probes have same Attenuation Scale...and bulbs are identical.

Also, when accelerating...do it more slow...not increasing that fast please....when it is too fast...it is very hard to see any differences.


You are getting there!!


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFnzTDzJ9nY[/VIDEO]

Hello all, UFO here is the test you requested, i don't pretend to understand scopes, please let me know if you need anything further.

You can definitely see and feel the opposite feeding which will be necessary to cause induction on secondaries, well done everyone.

Regards Cornboy.

[Cornboy 555]

@ Mm, a shot of my brush holder to show you the brush holder slot.

Cheers Cornboy,

[Cornboy 555]

Cornboy 555
Where did you purchase your commutator?

I can get 1000 of them but only want one or two!

Shadow

Hi Shadow, my 16 bar comm is from Eurton electric, it is quite small, and cheap, don't know if it will handle the currents we are dealing with, time will tell.

Regards Cornboy,

[marathonman]

Page one

Fly by's not welcomed nor needed. if you want to become a member of this thread you are required to read page 1 of this thread and then is at my discretion and other member recommendation in which i have received none of you what so ever. therefore please refrain from posting again.
all members have abided by this rule and you are no exception.

try Pming him next time.

Have a good Holiday.


MM

[citfta]

Hello All,

I just found this very useful link related to :

FACTORS AFFECTING INDUCTANCE IN A GIVEN COIL

And basically there are Four(4) Factors affecting Inductance:

1- N, Number of Turns:

[IMG][/IMG]

2- A, Coil Sectional Area:

[IMG][/IMG]

3-l, Coil Length:

[IMG][/IMG]

4- u, Coils Core Material:

[IMG][/IMG]


Then we have the Basic Calculation Parameters below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Where we could see in formula that N, u, A are DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO INDUCTANCE...which means as they are greater, Inductance Increases...EXCEPT for LENGTH (l)...which is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL (dividing Parameter), therefore the longer the coil the less the inductance.

Hope this help you all guys in your builds...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hi UFO and Merry Christmas.

The part of your post I have highlighted in red could be misleading to those not real familiar with inductance. A better way to say that would be that for a coil with all other things being the same the longer coil will have lower inductance. This means if one coil has 20 turns of a given diameter and core material and another has the same 20 turns spaced out so the coil is twice as long then the inductance would be half.

Or another way to look at it is if one coil has 20 turns and a second coil has 40 turns so it's length is twice the first coil then the second coil will have MORE inductance and not less.

Actually in VHF radio equipment most tuned circuits have air coils of only 4 to 6 turns and they are tuned by squeezing the loops of the coils together or spreading them apart more to change the inductance.

I hope this helps a little in your understanding of inductance.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[marathonman]

Inductance

Quote;
"Concluding that Part G could easily operate with the Inductance Value from just one Primary...maybe a bit more to have a head room."

this i disagree with but the rest is good, as all the rest of the primaries would put it into overload and cease function so the total amount of the low primaries induction to part G has to be added up to reach part G no matter how many primaries you use or rather have connected to it. meaning series and or paralleled.

Quote;
"Which means Two Current Functions take place, same time with exactly the same amount of current from source."

Sounds good.

Shadow;
Toledo comm dot com is working with me on one Industrial Commutator. he is sending me a pic and printout to see if specs are what i needed but after the holidays.
www.toledocomm.com
someone had already posted that link but i forgot who.


MM

[Ufopolitics]

so as long as the low primaries inductance being shoved into part G is at the level of part G's disbursing level minus losses which are replace to the core from the second secondaries as needed then the system will operate as required.

MM

Exactly MM,

Just because when the low primary (retracting field) Inductance is being shoved back to Part G...Part G is using that exact amount of Inductance collected from low Primary to feed the expanding Field of the High Primary...all taking place exactly at same timing.

Concluding that Part G could easily operate with the Inductance Value from just one Primary...maybe a bit more to have a head room.

An interesting article from the link: AllAboutCircuits: Magnetic Fields and Inductance:

To store more energy in an inductor, the current through it must be increased. This means that its magnetic field must increase in strength, and that change in field strength produces the corresponding voltage according to the principle of electromagnetic self-induction. Conversely, to release energy from an inductor, the current through it must be decreased. This means that the inductor’s magnetic field must decrease in strength, and that change in field strength self-induces a voltage drop of just the opposite polarity.

In Part G without increasing or decreasing currents from our source it does the job to feed both primaries...by reversing currents in every cycle...meaning when it is feeding high its currents are increasing toward that primary...while at other end, same timing, current is decreasing to low primary...


Which means Two Current Functions take place, same time with exactly the same amount of current from source.


Excellent right?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Shadow119g]

16 Bars Planar Commutator VCC-049

Cornboy 555
Where did you purchase your commutator?

I can get 1000 of them but only want one or two!

Shadow

[marathonman]

Inductance

so as long as the low primaries inductance being shoved into part G is at the level of part G's disbursing level minus losses which are replace to the core from the second secondaries as needed then the system will operate as required.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

YES, referring to calculating part G's currant drop i agree completely but when it comes to the inductance being equal i might stray a little as i remember Doug saying that if part G is fed to much that you will kill the device so induction can not be equal in my opinion. thus keeping winding count low will keep self inductance low as per my original primary parameters still stand.

Oh...no agreement then?...

MM,

Current feeding part G generates Inductance, Inductance generates Magnetic Field...When Part G disburses to Primaries the opposite conversion takes place (Magnetic Field back to Inductance, Inductance back to Currents), which are fed to Primaries at same timing...one Hi one Lo.

When Cycle reverts the only affecting difference resumes to primaries reversal, but not Part G which keeps operating -during a full cycle- with same Inductance, same Currents feed and same magnetic field within Toroid Geometry. This is the principle of Inductor behaving as a Power Source here.

What am trying to say above is that Currents and Inductance are completely related.

as i remember Doug saying that if part G is fed to much that you will kill the device...

YES!, And I did kill Inductance by feeding system with straight batteries which output was MUCH higher in Currents output...did NOT work...so Doug was right on the money there.

tests will prove the final outcome my friend.

Absolutely agree above...Only testing good results will dictate the truth!!

and thank you very much for the calc tool. this might prove to be VERY VALUABLE TO ME. as NO other tool i have found has this aspect that is so very importantly related.


MM

My Pleasure friend


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

I am glad we both agree on above part MM

YES, referring to calculating part G's currant drop i agree completely but when it comes to the inductance being equal i might stray a little as i remember Doug saying that if part G is fed to much that you will kill the device so induction can not be equal in my opinion. thus keeping winding count low will keep self inductance low as per my original primary parameters still stand.

tests will prove the final outcome my friend.

and thank you very much for the calc tool. this might prove to be VERY VALUABLE TO ME. as NO other tool i have found has this aspect that is so very importantly related.


MM

[Ufopolitics]

UFOP;
quote; 2- Part G Inductance (Lg) should be -at least- EQUAL to JUST ONE of Our Primaries N and S Inductance (Lg=Ln=Ls).

I completely agree. as both inductances are separate from the their magnetic fields, they should be calculated as separate halves of the system even thought the whole coil inductane can be calculated as one unit from low to high or vise verse in part G.

I am glad we both agree on above part MM

i just wish i could find a formula for inductance that includes wire width as my initial tests show wider wire have a more profound influence of self induction within part G's core.

MM

I found this Calculator below:

COIL INDUCTANCE CALCULATOR (INCLUDES WIRE DIAMETER IN MILLIMETERS)

Just have to convert from awg to mm...

Note: On left side bar, you could choose for different conductors topography...like rectangular loop (which applies to each one of your Part G Loops, then you just add total number of single loops Inductance L to reach an Ltotal and divide by length (l) which in your Toroid would be Circumference taken to linear distance...then you have your Part G Total Inductance)...or the circular loop which applies to our Primaries).

Edit: I noticed the Rectangular loop includes Number of Turns...which means it will give you Length (l) of coil when including wire thickness (r), However, that Length is assuming each loop is right next to each others...not your case where there is a separation...but no sweat, just have to add all gaps-spaces and divide them by Total L.

See if it works for your calculations...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Part G Inductance

Which tells me i was right all along as wide wire has larger coil area to interact with the iron core as the magnetic field will travel in the core longer than will round wire requiring round wire to have significantly larger winding count than rectangle wire.
thus my deep core will have significantly longer length per turn as a single core will plus having a higher degree of self induction. my single strip of rectangle wire will have near 4 time the magnetic self inducting influence on the toroid core as your single 8 or 10 awg round wire will.

but remember what they said, i an just a nut and i have no clue what i am talking about.

things that make you go hummmm.

[Ufopolitics]

The Four Factors which affect Inductance...

Hello All,

I just found this very useful link related to :

FACTORS AFFECTING INDUCTANCE IN A GIVEN COIL

And basically there are Four(4) Factors affecting Inductance:

1- N, Number of Turns:

[IMG][/IMG]

2- A, Coil Sectional Area:

[IMG][/IMG]

3-l, Coil Length:

[IMG][/IMG]

4- u, Coils Core Material:

[IMG][/IMG]


Then we have the Basic Calculation Parameters below:

[IMG][/IMG]

Where we could see in formula that N, u, A are DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO INDUCTANCE...which means as they are greater, Inductance Increases...EXCEPT for LENGTH (l)...which is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL (dividing Parameter), therefore the longer the coil the less the inductance.

Hope this help you all guys in your builds...


Regards


Ufopolitics