Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[jegz]

Thanks

Hi Jegz,

That above post has been the BEST reasoning I have read in a while...

And it goes even further...

This residual Magnetism is ENOUGH to reach its peak CHARGE-DISCHARGE RATIO, once the 60 Hertz or 3600 RPM's are obtained.

Obviously in just a few minutes of running time at FULL SPEED it will be ready to take a load from Secondaries.

Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny.

And this Charge-Discharge Process applies to Brushed and Brushless Home Generators.

This is VERY IMPORTANT to know...when we apply it to our Static Systems.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Im a very Big fan of your work sir. Thanks for the complement. I've had this conversation with many classically trained engineers but this realization doesn't dawn on them sadly or at the very least jolt them into applying their knowledge into taking advantage of this phenomenon.Care to elaborate what adjustments would need to be made in the case of static systems regarding charge-discharge ratios?

[Doug1]

"
Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny."

You'll figure out the correct interpretation when you place two inducers on the outside of the induced secondary. The term "on" is the opposite of off.
Little by little kicking screaming yelling an inch at a time. Good debates and civil ,that's different. Im told I have to be more kind by people close to me so "good demo ufo. If you make the free wheeling rotor three times the size and approach the electro magnet slowly while using your finger to apply resistance to the rotor you'll be able to feel the sweet spot and notice a few more things. There is a reason it sometimes will not start to spin and when it is spinning you can move it pretty far away and it keeps spinning. The rotor has to first establish a field by mutual induction but after it has done so the physical resistance of the rotor spinning places drag on it preventing it from keeping in perfect step with the elctro magnet. Even though it is turning it lags behind. If the two were perfectly synced there would be no induced current in the rotor and it would slow down then it would be different again and start to induce making it it's own magnet again. They are separate , always kept separate just enough to be separate. One pushes the other but they dont mix. They dont even want to if the drag is always present. Everyone wants to kill lenz always killing. Always failing. Your finally on the right track so now you just have to stay on the right track and stop letting distractions from interfering. I could offer you some more experiments to try with your magnet if you want to learn for the sake of learning. If you don't I can except why you wouldn't.

[Ufopolitics]

"
Once I also thought that the Exciting Fields were ON AT ALL TIME during Rotation...but this is completely false...it is a process of Charge-Discharge separated by 90 degrees in a Single Phase Home Genny."

Hello Doug,

It takes a simple experiment to know that result above...a Scope attached to DC Cap, which goes to slip ring-brushes/Exciter Field...Then when Gen is loaded (with a heavy load, of course) you no longer see a straight, flat DC line...but a wave...

You'll figure out the correct interpretation when you place two inducers on the outside of the induced secondary. The term "on" is the opposite of off.
Little by little kicking screaming yelling an inch at a time. Good debates and civil ,that's different. Im told I have to be more kind by people close to me so "good demo ufo. If you make the free wheeling rotor three times the size and approach the electro magnet slowly while using your finger to apply resistance to the rotor you'll be able to feel the sweet spot and notice a few more things. There is a reason it sometimes will not start to spin and when it is spinning you can move it pretty far away and it keeps spinning. The rotor has to first establish a field by mutual induction but after it has done so the physical resistance of the rotor spinning places drag on it preventing it from keeping in perfect step with the elctro magnet. Even though it is turning it lags behind. If the two were perfectly synced there would be no induced current in the rotor and it would slow down then it would be different again and start to induce making it it's own magnet again. They are separate , always kept separate just enough to be separate. One pushes the other but they dont mix. They dont even want to if the drag is always present. Everyone wants to kill lenz always killing. Always failing. Your finally on the right track so now you just have to stay on the right track and stop letting distractions from interfering. I could offer you some more experiments to try with your magnet if you want to learn for the sake of learning. If you don't I can except why you wouldn't.

Absolutely, am all for suggestions here, basically in order to learn more, since we all "know nothing"...we are all navigating into unknown waters friend...so any help would be appreciated.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Armature reaction

It takes a simple experiment to know that result above...a Scope attached to DC Cap, which goes to slip ring-brushes/Exciter Field...Then when Gen is loaded (with a heavy load, of course) you no longer see a straight, flat DC line...but a wave...

...

Hi Ufo,

I believe this distortion which you observe under load is a result of armature reaction. Here is a link explaining that. I noticed several typos in the article so please double check any facts you want to take from it.

https://www.electrical4u.com/armatur...ne-alternator/

Regards,

bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

I believe this distortion which you observe under load is a result of armature reaction. Here is a link explaining that. I noticed several typos in the article so please double check any facts you want to take from it.

https://www.electrical4u.com/armatur...ne-alternator/

Regards,

bi

Yeah, it could be Bistander...thanks for the link.

I understand as the Exciter Field Induces the Generating Field (Induced) there is a "counter reaction" from the field at stator field versus exciter field.

In the article they keep "mixing" "Alternators" (which I relate to Automotive Devices) and Sync Generators...different deal there.

An Automotive Generator IS DC at ALL times at their Exciter's Coils, through slip ring brushes, (and I have NO Doubts about it)...since it does NOT have a "charging stage" at 90º to Generating Coils, where the smaller, thinner coils are wound on stator, like it does on a Single Phase Gen (no matter if brushed or brushless). This differences makes that Alternators from Vehicles work with a "Full Time" Reaction between stator armature (rotor exciter field)

Besides Stator (Generating) windings are also completely different between the two types.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Alternator

In the article they keep "mixing" "Alternators" (which I relate to Automotive Devices) and Sync Generators...different deal there.

No. Your typical automotive alternator is a 3-phase synchronous AC generator with a rectifier bridge on the armature (stator) output to convert to DC for vehicle battery charging and auxiliary circuits. AC generators, in general, are often called alternators.

bi

[Ufopolitics]

To simplify concepts...

If we have an exciter (or exciters) transferring energy by EM induction to a secondary...once we load that secondary, the Magnetic Field from Exciter is DRAWN OFF (weaken) via secondary coils to supply enough power to load.

We could also call this "drawn off" effect as a "Discharge Process"...and it takes milliseconds, (so, we normally do not pay attention to this process) almost not noticeable since we have a steady current sourcing exciters (no matter if Figuera's Fluctuations are concerned, we are looking at the Sum Current Total from both Exciters, added up)

It is then "ON THE REPETITIONS FREQUENCY" from this Processes to maintain a steady supply at load.

Resuming, as Figuera mentioned on 1908 Patent..."Magnetizing the Cores fully" is when full induction takes place...and so I am adding that when we install a load, there takes place a DEMAGNETIZATION or Discharge from Exciters to Generating Field-Load circuit.

As a result from the above, in a Figuera or any Motionless Generator, there would be a slight Increase at Source Currents, once we connect a Load to Output. (As a reaction-response from Currents trying to stabilize on whole Exciter System) And so, if the Frequency is High, or at "Operating Levels", this increase will very rapidly fall back to prior settings, and will stay there during all load operation.

If We add a second and HIGHER LOAD, this fluctuation will REPEAT...and so on.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

I know Alternators are Three Phase Bistander, (I have wound-rewound many of them as repair them as well, as also used them for my experiments) as I know they have a bridge of Diodes, one for each phase to the voltage regulator to then "recharge" battery plus supply power to electrical system from vehicle.

What I am working/testing and so referring to...is a Single Phase Home Generator which HAVE these two small coils to recharge exciter fields at 90º from Generating Coils...

A Vehicle Alternator or a Three Phase Sync Machine does NOT comes with that system-circuit...so, Different Animal here friend...is all am saying.

Therefore, when it comes to analyzing this particular type, which is NOT that complicated in understanding...there are different results.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Animals

...
A Vehicle Alternator or a Three Phase Sync Machine does NOT comes with that system-circuit...so, Different Animal here friend...is all am saying. ...

I'd say same animal; same breed; different families. One for constant speed and one for varying speed input. So control methods differ.

But w.t.f. Carry on.

bi

[marathonman]

Cores

"Magnetizing the Cores fully" would mean a few seconds until the Secondary core is fully polarized and operational with currant flowing.
in standard Geny it is already polarized. (residual magnetization) in the Figuera device the flashing needs to take place every time you restart it.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

"Magnetizing the Cores fully"

Hello MM,

When I mentioned "magnetizing the core fully" I was referring when Exciter (Primary) fully magnetizes the Secondary Core, (Full Alignment) and that is when the Peak Induction takes place...it was written on Figuera 1908 Patent on the introductory part, when he was observing and analyzing a typical generator inner behavior...

... would mean a few seconds until the Secondary core is fully polarized and operational with currant flowing.

Correct...however, in my opinion as soon as you connect a load to that fully polarized and currents flowing secondary...then a "discharge" takes place towards load demand (discharge of Electrical Nature, of course)...so, secondary empties out (of currents therefore, magnetism) therefore it needs again another "magnetic charge" in the following half cycle of exciter re-magnetizing secondary core again...to continue load feeding process.

in standard Geny it is already polarized. (residual magnetization) in the Figuera device the flashing needs to take place every time you restart it.

MM

That's right, However, I am pretty confident we could come up with some way to be able to keep a magnetic reminiscence on the exciter cores, so it would not require an external flash, it all depends upon the type of polarity fluctuations we are doing...then reproduced by an inner center mechanical device, traveling Linearly back-forth or spinning within core...in order that even with very minimal energy, like stored in a prime cap... it would start the process...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

Figuera

The alignment is at optimal at all times in the Figuera device unlike the standard Geny.

the secondary and the load is a closed loop system so there fore no power is dissipated or depleted and does not "empty out" as you say. this is the same for a standard geny, the output and the load is a closed system and cannot be depleted in any way, shape or form. the primaries are there to start the induction process, then used to impart motion from side to side in the secondary thus causing AC attributes.

the flashing we are describing takes place in seconds so why try to change it when it hasn't been built yet.

trying to improve a device that has never been built by the one building seams counter productive and wasteful to me but good luck all the same.

MM

[Ufopolitics]

The alignment is at optimal at all times in the Figuera device unlike the standard Geny.

Right.

the secondary and the load is a closed loop system so there fore no power is dissipated or depleted and does not "empty out" as you say. this is the same for a standard geny, the output and the load is a closed system and cannot be depleted in any way, shape or form. the primaries are there to start the induction process, then used to impart motion from side to side in the secondary thus causing AC attributes.

I know it sounds not quite right to look at Induction as that...but again, that's my opinion, and so everyone else have theirs...

When it comes the time...then I will explain the whole thing in detail...my fault, not now...

the flashing we are describing takes place in seconds so why try to change it when it hasn't been built yet.

trying to improve a device that has never been built by the one building seams counter productive and wasteful to me but good luck all the same.

MM

I had been building so many Machines over such time, with real proof on all my YT Chanel Videos...And not so much higher percentage of talk......Believe Me, I know exactly "the procedure order" MM, when it comes to "improvement time"...

You don't need to remind Me.


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

It's All Good

There is no need to explain. you have been bitten by the bug.
MM

[marathonman]

But Then

but then again as the spoken word was expansion and contraction and our universe is nothing but expansion and contraction you could be right. high and low pressures.

MM