Use for the Tesla Switch

[Peter Lindemann]

Not Missing a Thing....

Hi Peter,

I've put a lot of time (and money)in testing the TS, I started with solid state switching, then I tried the relais version and the last one had a rotary switch (6 switches) wich commutated the batteries directly instead of driving transistors like in T-7 on Muellers report.
Well the batteries don't charge, they slowly drop in voltage, depending on the load. One thing that confuses me is that in John's T-1 and other drawings the ground between the two lower batts(3-4) is shorted directly through the switch but also going trough the AC out. I mean how can you have voltage on the bridge rectifier if the switches short the grounds directly?
That's why I made the wiring like T7 wich made more sense in relation to the above, only not having the transistors but mechanical switches. I've tried 20Hz and up to 400Hz the mechanical is 50% duty while with the solid state I tried from really narrow to 50%.
The best results I had by putting a coil on the output wich gave SSG type spikes. but still...
I thought the TS was supposed to have a high charging rate and pretty impressive loading capabilities.
Am I missing something? Suggestions?

best regards,

Mario

Dear Mario,

Honestly, I don't think you are missing a thing. You are having the full, frustrating experience of working on a very difficult project. To tell you the truth, I have never seen one of these things work, so I can't help you from a technical point of view.

I do know that when John was working on the SG Pendulum project, he studied the wave shapes the machine generated on the oscilloscope for hours....even days! He never told me what he was looking for, but did tell me he was looking for a specific wave-form.

I also assume that the "Four Battery Switch" must be similar. It is painfully obvious that any operation of the circuit in conventional terms will discharge the batteries. Also, we know that the ONLY energy gain mechanism that is even possibly available in this system is what Tesla refers to as RADIANT ENERGY. So, the proper function of the circuit MUST require:

1) abrupt switching
2) electron current blocking
3) impedance matching and balancing

Exactly how these circuit necessities are accomplished with any given set of components is a NIGHTMARE of testing and tweeking. If I am not mistaken, it took John months to get his little "cigar box unit" operating and stable.

Just so you are clear, every length of wire has an "inductance" and a "capacitance" that is part of the tuning of the system. The gain, voltage drop, and switching speed of the transistors all play a part. Likewise for the diodes. If you are using contactors, the voltage drop and resistance of the contactor plays a role in tuning.

In the end, it might be easier to walk your dog on Mars.

I'm not suggesting you stop working on it, but I am suggesting that success is NOT imminent. John is extremely intuitive about circuit operations. This also suggests that knowledge and logic may be insufficient to ensure success.

Peter

[Mario]

Tesla switch

Peter, thanks for your honest answer. John said we need a perfect 50/50% flip flop, that doesn't mean the duty cycle has to be 50% in amplitude though right? Especially if we are to block electron flow but then I don't understand the 50% mechanical pulse width on the T7 rotary switch. T1 one would make more sense since the coil controlled transistors would only allow for very short spikes(more John-like. Is T1 exactly like John's cigar-box or could there be missing parts?

best regards, Mario

[Peter Lindemann]

And the working model is......

Peter, thanks for your honest answer. John said we need a perfect 50/50% flip flop, that doesn't mean the duty cycle has to be 50% in amplitude though right? Especially if we are to block electron flow but then I don't understand the 50% mechanical pulse width on the T7 rotary switch. T1 one would make more sense since the coil controlled transistors would only allow for very short spikes(more John-like. Is T1 exactly like John's cigar-box or could there be missing parts?

best regards, Mario

Mario,

To the best of my knowledge, Figure T-1, in the Eike Mueller Report is the correct schematic. When I got John's permission to reprint the report in this forum, he gave me the final up-dates to the components list. I stated those component changes in Post #7 of this forum, and I will repeat them here.

"When I spoke to John, he told me that getting the circuit to work is a real pain. The circuit controller must be able to produce a perfect 50%-50% flip-flop. The "cigar box" unit used Ni-Cad batteries, which is why they are labeled as 5 volts (4 x 1.25 volts each). The final working model used the 2N5885 transistor instead of the 2N3055H as listed. The control chip was the SG 3524 instead of the SG 3984 as listed. The system switched slowly, at no more that 20 CPS."

This is as much as I know.

Good luck,

Peter

[Mario]

Thanks Peter, I appreciate your feedback.

all the best,
Mario

[nali2001]

T. Switch

Well in reality it does not matter if the combined voltage will drop in the batteries. I'm sure it will since there are losses. The thing that really matters is, can even 1% of the energy running trough a load be recycled back into the batteries? I'm sure it can and will. I'm testing my own setup soon. And I did some test with a few 22k Mf caps and it does work. So I presume it will also in a battery setup. only difficulty in a battery is that it is hard to 'really' know how much energy it holds. In cap that is much less of a problem.

To me the whole T. Switch idea is "using the energy recycling to power a load longer with the same available energy" And it won't matter if the batteries loose power, as long as they do more work than the rate of discharge.

Kind regards,
Steven

[tommy]

Tuning Guide for 4-battery switch?

Peter,

I am very interested in building the 4-battery switch so I really appreciated your insight that it might be easier to "walk your dog on Mars." <grin>

I was wondering since Mr. Bedini did get this to work, if he might provide a tuning guide for his 4-battery switch?

Thank you.

[dyetalon]

Peter,

I am very interested in building the 4-battery switch so I really appreciated your insight that it might be easier to "walk your dog on Mars." <grin>...

Reminds me of this: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/qedynmnu.htm

[tommy]

Does anyone know why Mr. Bedini is not willing to discuss his findings on the 4-battery switch?

[elias]

Batteries are living beings

Hello

I think that Mr Bedini wants us to understand the nature of things by ourselves, He doesn't want to spoon feed us, but wants us to understand.

The way we look at things must change in my mind. We must look at everything as living beings!!! and a form of consciousness. Everything has a meaning and a purpose attached to it, even batteries.

Batteries are delicate providers of electrical current, and we must treat them how they like to be treated. If we push or pull them to make them charge or discharge, this makes them unhappy and exhausts them sooner or later.

But, everything in nature has a vibration so do the batteries. We must find that vibration. The key to battery charging is finding the perfect vibration for the batteries.

One way to find the natural vibration or frequency of things is to pulse them for a moment and watch the reaction of them.

In signals and systems we read that an impulse has all the frequencies in it, and applying it to a system will reveal its system function or more importantly the frequency of vibration it is based upon.

Consider the example of a child's swing as a system, if we don't know at what frequency the swing vibrates then we'll not know when to apply an impulse to the swing to make it vibrate with a higher amplitude. But as we apply an impulse to a swing we can understand the vibration of it by simply observing it.

So I recommend one thing, and I am going to test this later. The trick is to observe the batteries while pulsing them. Hook an oscilloscope to the battery terminals. Charge a small capacitor like 2uF to a high voltage (500-1000v) or a large one like 10,000uF to a about 20v. Experimenting will show that a heavy hammer is needed or a lighter one!!! But I think that it is midpoint somewhere for the best result. Design a simple switching circuit, and apply the capacitor to the battery as abruptly as possible like a hammer hitting a glass window. Right when hitting a battery with an impulse, monitor your scope or make a snapshot of the aftereffect of the impulse. The aftereffect acts like a damped sin-wave or a logarithmic function, the frequency of the sin-wave or the decay time of the logarithmic function is the natural vibration of our living battery. So we must tune our charging circuit to apply the impulses to the battery at the right moment to make it happy, not too fast, or not too slow, there must be a sweet spot so to speak.

This is what I understand about the nature of batteries. Resonance is a key in these systems. So the battery switch must consider this, to make it operate while treating the batteries with care and love and harmony.

Love and Light
Elias

[tommy]

Hello

I think that Mr Bedini wants us to understand the nature of things by ourselves, He doesn't want to spoon feed us, but wants us to understand.
Elias

I totally agree... gaining understanding through experimentation is essential... no argument there. But my argument is that technological advancement starts with someone learning "A" (in this case it was Tesla) , then someone else (Bedini) learns A from that person and advances the understanding to B, etc. It's an accumulative effort. Tesla learned A, Bedini learned B. It would be nice if we could start at point B instead of point A. That's all I'm trying to say. But all in all, I well respect Mr. Bedini's work.

You make a good point with the resonance of the capacitors and batteries. I appreciate your input.

[elias]

I totally agree... gaining understanding through experimentation is essential... no argument there. But my argument is that technological advancement starts with someone learning "A" (in this case it was Tesla) , then someone else (Bedini) learns A from that person and advances the understanding to B, etc. It's an accumulative effort. Tesla learned A, Bedini learned B. It would be nice if we could start at point B instead of point A. That's all I'm trying to say. But all in all, I well respect Mr. Bedini's work.

You make a good point with the resonance of the capacitors and batteries. I appreciate your input.

All Bedini has told us about these battery pulsing systems, which range from the energizer to this battery switch, is that you must pulse the batteries at the right moment and must not push current to it, charging must be done merely with potential. He has told us nothing about what is this right moment, so one must be clever enough to find out about this right moment. Maybe someday he'll come and tell us exactly what he means.

[elias]

A battary behavior when being pulsed by a capacitor

Hi

I did this experiment to find out how a 12V battery responds when applying a 10000uF with 18V of voltage to it. This is the wave form around the battery terminals, which decays like a logarithmic function. The decay time is related to the internal impedance of the battery to the battery. Each square is 5msec and 1volts. RC is approximately 2msec here, therefor R = 2msec/10000uF = 0.2 ohms. The impedance of the battery is somewhat related to the moving ions in the battery, which decreases as the ions move.

Elias

[InTheField]

When I spoke to John, he told me that getting the circuit to work is a real pain. The circuit controller must be able to produce a perfect 50%-50% flip-flop. The "cigar box" unit used Ni-Cad batteries, which is why they are labeled as 5 volts (4 x 1.25 volts each). The final working model used the 2N5885 transistor instead of the 2N3055H as listed. The control chip was the SG 3524 instead of the SG 3984 as listed. The system switched slowly, at no more that 20 CPS.

Sorry for the late post to this thread, but I just found out about this forum...

A couple of observations:

1. The 2N3055 would probably work just fine. The 2n5885 is just a slightly beefed-up version of the same thing. In many electronics stores you can find the NTE181, which is considered a "replacement" for either. It is even beefier than the 2N5885. (Regardless, it can be a real pain dealing with the standard TO-3 or similar package when doing these types of circuits)

2. Pollaehn's timer circuit on pg 28 of the Mueller report gives a variable rate of ~6-10 CPS. I can understand why John would remember it as "slow, not more than 20 CPS", if that is the actual setup used.

3. Also, Pollaehn's timer circuit on pg 28 of the Mueller report does a good job of giving the 50-50 pulses.

4. The SG3524 is a lot more common and available than the SG3984, which is hard to get and even considered obsolete by some places. Using the SG3524 circuit in figure T-1 on pg 10 of the Mueller report would definitely require some "tweaking" in my opinion... Also, be careful, that figure shows a connection to pin 3, which is relabeled in the figure as pin 9. The feedback should come from pin 9, not pin 3. Pin 3 is an output that doesn't need to be used for this to work... at least in my dealings with the 3524 chip. Part of my reason for feeling that it would need "tweaking" is that based on the RC constant (including switched in/out components and the variable resistor) being used and the way the frequency is generated in the 3524, that circuit will give anywhere from just under 11 Hz all the way upto 1.3 kHz. Quite a range to find a "sweet spot" in. Though using the PWM helps to create that desired 50-50 pulse mentioned.

Keep learning,

ITF

[vzon17]

Tesla switch

Well in reality it does not matter if the combined voltage will drop in the batteries. I'm sure it will since there are losses. The thing that really matters is, can even 1% of the energy running trough a load be recycled back into the batteries? I'm sure it can and will. I'm testing my own setup soon. And I did some test with a few 22k Mf caps and it does work. So I presume it will also in a battery setup. only difficulty in a battery is that it is hard to 'really' know how much energy it holds. In cap that is much less of a problem.

To me the whole T. Switch idea is "using the energy recycling to power a load longer with the same available energy" And it won't matter if the batteries loose power, as long as they do more work than the rate of discharge.

Kind regards,
Steven

Maybe this is old info now but I have a PDF file that talks about the telsa switch and it says it needs to be pulsing at least at a 100 hz to be effireient. Also the caps they recommonded was 1000 uf and the circuit HAD to have an inductive load to work. So if anyone want so read this here you go.

[Chip Shorter]

How about using a 4PDT relay? Wire the coil through the N.C. contact on one side and wire the switch. Use the diodes in the circuit though.