None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[conradphd]

You did note I was quoting, right?

@lamare

I wonder if this could imply a connection/observation that in reality is similar ot the same as Dr. Koontz and his Theory of negative mass particles.

A full credentialed and highly qualified Physicist Web Site of Dr. Robert W. Koontz* www.DoctorKoontz.com

[Farrah Day]

You did note I was quoting, right?

Yes... but who in their right mind would want to quote that nonsense?

[lamare]

Electrons being disintegrated, Lamare?

You did note I was quoting, right?

[Farrah Day]

Anybody feel brave enough to even attempt to explain what 'HARD' and 'SOFT' electrons are?

Electrons being disintegrated, Lamare?

[Slovenia]

Very Good Read

Mike,

Thanks for sharing the information in your paper. This is indeed very fascinating stuff and your paper makes the Meyer system much more understandable now. Thanks for sharing this!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

[lamare]

This looks relevant, by Joseph Cater:

Also with description here:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter5.pdf

page 64 a.o.

[Jetijs]

This looks relevant, by Joseph Cater:

[lamare]

Wait a minute...

This is beginning to make sense.


As I posted just above, there is a certain natural concentration of H+ and OH- ions in water:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o.html#post111138

For "normal" electrolysis to be performed "in fluid" you need these ions, first of all to get the fluid into acoustic resonance, and second of all because you need charge carriers for the electrolysis reaction to take place.

Now if you want to make the electrolysis more efficient, you need more ions. One way to do that is to add an electrolyte. Another way to do that apparantly is to change the natural ion balance in water, by exciting the water molecules, such that you get more H+ and OH- ions. And that would mean breaking the bonds....

So, if I understand this right, you are basically using water as the electrolyte.

[Aromaz]

Here is the first of my documents on this subject, and is to be continued
Mike

EDIT: I wrote but got sidetracked by phone call. Now I saw you did post a warning; so I will just underwrite that.

[lamare]

I want to create a rolling group of docs related to this:

Posted both here: Bestandsoverzicht van /pdf/Reference_Material/

Now as I read Mike's document and he says continuous bombardment
with the heterodyning frequencies helps to break them apart with less
power. And we're talking about tubes being used as antennas with
tuning coils (chokes).

So, are we not talking about "ionization" anymore? Well, it seems that
this is about the water cell, which is separate from the ionization system
to ionize nitrogen, etc... that much I think can be deduced from Mike's
document and if I'm wrong, I'll delete this so it doesn't confuse anyone
but I see questions that appear to be self-evidently answered within
the content itself.

And furthermore, it goes into detail about tubes submerged in water.
So are we not talking about "ionization" anymore? It is obviously the
water cell part of the system and not the air ionization.

Let me share my thoughts on this. At the higher level, there are two reactions to be considered:

1. The breaking up of water into H2 and O2 gasses.
2. The burning of the gasses back into water.

IMHO, all the theories about ionistation, electron orbits, bond angles and the like may be right or may not be right, but in the end we know for certain that reaction two can happen spontaneously once the reaction has been started. So, whatever way you look at it, it is possible to have all the charge transfers and whatever may be going on within a "simple" chemical reaction. Under the right conditions, the magic happens, and in this case a reaction occurs that delivers energy.

So, now the other way. Given the results claimed by Meyer, Puharich and others, I think one can safely conclude that the reaction the other way can be performed pretty much the same way as reaction two, only the other way around, which above all means: getting the energy at the right place.

And since water always contains a certain amount of ions, we can use these to get the fluid in acoustic resonance by feeding RF waves trough the fluid with the right frequency. Then we have not only a simple acoustic resonance, but within that also resonating ions such that the positive ones resonate in opposit phase with respect to the negative ones. So, every now and then, they will bump into one another and because they have a significantly larger speed than in a fluid that is not being excited into resonance, they apparantly have enough energy for the reaction the other way around to take place.

IMHO, that's really all we need to know.

Update:
This is what Puharich also writes, besides his theory about breaking the bonds:
Andrija Puharich: Water Decomposition by AC Elecrolysis >

The next effect felt by the water molecule is the Component I carrier resonant frequency, Fo. At the peak efficiency for electrolysis the value of Fo is 600 Hz +/- 5 Hz.

This resonance however is achieved through control of two other factors. The first is the molal concentration of salt in the water. This is controlled by measuring the conductivity of the water through the built in current meter of Component I. There is maintained an idea ratio of current to voltage I/E = 0.01870 which is an index to the optimum salt concentration of 0.1540 Molal.

The second factor which helps to hold the resonant which helps to hold the resonant frequency at 600 Hz is the gap distance of Y, between the centre electrode, and the ring electrode of Component II.

This gap distance will vary depending on the size scale of Component II, but again the current flow, I, is used to set it to the optimal distance when the voltage reads between 2.30 (rms) volts, at resonance Fo, and at molal concentration, 0.1540. The molal concentration of the water is thus seen to represent the electric term of the water molecule and hence its conductivity.

The amplitude modulation of the carrier gives rise to side bands in the power spectrum of the carrier frequency distribution. It is these side bands which give rise to an acoustic vibration of the liquid water, and it is believed to the tetrahedral water molecule. The importance of the phonon effect --- the acoustic vibration of water in electrolysis --- was discovered in a roundabout way. Research work with Component I had earlier established that it could be used for the electro-stimulation of hearing in humans. When the output of Component I is comprised of flat circular metal plates applied to the head of normal hearing humans, it was found that they could hear pure tones and speech. Simultaneously, acoustic vibration could also be heard by an outside observer with a stethoscope placed near one of the electrodes on the skin. It was observed that the absolute threshold of hearing could be obtained at 0.16 mW (rms), and by calculation that there was an amplitude of displacement of the eardrum of the order of 10-11 and a corresponding amplitude of the cochlear basilar membrane of 10-13 meter. Corollary to this finding. I was able to achieve the absolute reversible threshold of electrolysis at a power level of 0.16 mW (rms). By carrying out new calculations I was able to show that the water was being vibrated with a displacement of the order of 1 Angstrom ( = 10-10 meters). This displacement is of the order of the diameter of the hydrogen atom.

Based on this, I really wonder if there is much more to the whole process other than getting the right acoustic resonance. Because if really the breaking of the specific bonds of the water molecule where that important, then why could Puharich control his resonance frequency trough the salt concentration?

And, if you really need specific frequencies to break the bonds, how does that relate to the reaction the other way around (burning)?

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Something to read and understand on EM waves

Definitions of EMF, ELF, VHF, UHF, electromagnetic field, frequency ranges and wavelengths of electromagnetic fields

The table presented here on different RF or electro magnetic waves gives you an insite on what different EM waves do.

If you look at the highest end of the scale, X-rays, you will see why I have moved on to working in this area, albeit, far more complicated and dangerous and should be left to people whom know what they are doing.

Look at the VHF and UHF section, electrons oscillating, rings a bell with what I have said in the document? well it should. Go back to the piece of wood anology and breaking of the bond.

Mike

[Aaron]

my initial take on Mike's explanation

I want to create a rolling group of docs related to this:

Mike's doc: http://www.feelthevibe.com/free_ener...osplitting.pdf

Nvisser, thanks for posting that.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/6576d1285009736-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o-heterodyning-powers-phi.doc

Here is the first reference that I learned about heterodyning from Bedini:
My Work on Rife
In reference to the 4 wave mixing. Priore used up to 18 I think.
And of course Bearden has a ton of info about interferometry.

Anyway, John references this on his page:
The Acousto-Optic Modulator and Optical Heterodyning

They're all basically saying what Mike already spelled out about starting
with two base frequencies.

----------------------------

Now as I read Mike's document and he says continuous bombardment
with the heterodyning frequencies helps to break them apart with less
power. And we're talking about tubes being used as antennas with
tuning coils (chokes).

So, are we not talking about "ionization" anymore? Well, it seems that
this is about the water cell, which is separate from the ionization system
to ionize nitrogen, etc... that much I think can be deduced from Mike's
document and if I'm wrong, I'll delete this so it doesn't confuse anyone
but I see questions that appear to be self-evidently answered within
the content itself.

And furthermore, it goes into detail about tubes submerged in water.
So are we not talking about "ionization" anymore? It is obviously the
water cell part of the system and not the air ionization.

---------------------------------

With the tubes needing insulation - is this where the delrin encasement
comes into play? Meyer clearly showed this in his diagrams that the
tube sets are encased in delrin to insulate them from the water bath
and the only place that they touched the water was at the gap where
the water can flow up through and out.

With conventional pulsed power to the tubes, insulating does increase
the gas production and does allow the tube set to act more as a real
capacitor since it isn't shorted out by having the ends of the tubes
simply short circuited through the water distilled or not. But in this case,
if we want them to act as antennas that are insulated from the water
but allow RF to pass through the insulator, delrin or any other plastic
or rubber should work - or wouldn't it?

I bought "plastidip" before to coat some tubes for the purposes of
insulating them from the water as the delrin was intended to do.

So with the tubes and tuned coils and "auto tune" circuit, and we know
what the auto tune circuit is, we should be good to go. Could we do this
with just two tubes to demonstrate the effectiveness where there
is a PLL for each tube set and each one is operating in a different
frequency range? The a frequency of the difference and combination
of are created, which bombard the water molecules causing them to
dissociate easier with less power.

As far as the cage, that would then shield the entire water cell from
leaking any of the rf so wrapping it in sheet metal like copper or similar
might work or will it?

And at the end, Mike mentions that he talked about NH3 but this paper
is only about splitting the water molecule. So are we not talking about
ionization anymore? This is about splitting the water molecule and Mike
hasn't gotten into the NH3 yet.

[Slovenia]

Thank You!!

Mike,

I appreciate your sharing this very much!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Here is the first of my documents on this subject, and is to be continued

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

I didn't see if that PDF had both pages or not, but here is a link to the whole
document so far...

http://www.feelthevibe.com/free_ener...osplitting.pdf

Thanks Aaron

Mike

[Aaron]

splitting h2o

I didn't see if that PDF had both pages or not, but here is a link to the whole
document so far...

http://www.feelthevibe.com/free_energy/michaeljohnnunnerly/h2osplitting.pdf