None Electrolytic Splitting Of H2o

[Aaron]

rf mixing for synthetic fuel creation

I want to make sure I have a correct understanding; I know this is an old thread, but I have been trying to absorb all the information on this forum, here is what I have taken from this thread:

1. Water can be split by having 2 EM waves in the MHZ range provided they are at a 6x spacing from one another and outside interference is kept to a minimum (one example repeatedly being 120mhz/720mhz, this is undesireable for being to close to the 121.5 MHz emergency frequency for civilian aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency

2. Making signals of these frequencies and letting them leak into the environment will get some hostile suits knocking on your doors for obvious reasons.

3. To stabilize the product of this phenomenon compressed air/nitrogen must be included in the mixture and the resulting ammonia is the more convenient product, hho or whatever you want to call it burns too fast on its own to be useful for anything except a torch.

4. The logical end result of this product is some sort of electrolytic hydrogen/nitrogen reactor trying to minimize/eliminate oxygen side reactions and possibly use the oxygen for something else.

5. 4 + a turbine of some sort seems to be what the researchers here settled on for utilizing this effect.

6. Any parts listed for practical builds end up disappearing via a mysterious force of technology suppression

7. Work suddenly stopped on the project for some reason, and it doesn't seem to be failure.

Have I missed anything?

Can anyone help fill in some details I have missed or correct any misinterpretations, maybe help point me in the direction of more information?

I just need the antennas to verify the final piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE73bZs-Kl8

[Diplomacy]

I want to make sure I have a correct understanding; I know this is an old thread, but I have been trying to absorb all the information on this forum, here is what I have taken from this thread:

1. Water can be split by having 2 EM waves in the MHZ range provided they are at a 6x spacing from one another and outside interference is kept to a minimum (one example repeatedly being 120mhz/720mhz, this is undesireable for being to close to the 121.5 MHz emergency frequency for civilian aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency

2. Making signals of these frequencies and letting them leak into the environment will get some hostile suits knocking on your doors for obvious reasons.

3. To stabilize the product of this phenomenon compressed air/nitrogen must be included in the mixture and the resulting ammonia is the more convenient product, hho or whatever you want to call it burns too fast on its own to be useful for anything except a torch.

4. The logical end result of this product is some sort of electrolytic hydrogen/nitrogen reactor trying to minimize/eliminate oxygen side reactions and possibly use the oxygen for something else.

5. 4 + a turbine of some sort seems to be what the researchers here settled on for utilizing this effect.

6. Any parts listed for practical builds end up disappearing via a mysterious force of technology suppression

7. Work suddenly stopped on the project for some reason, and it doesn't seem to be failure.

Have I missed anything?

Can anyone help fill in some details I have missed or correct any misinterpretations, maybe help point me in the direction of more information?

[Vinyasi]

TinyUrl shortcut to this post...

Just for the full Sir Humphrey Davy reference:

The Bakerian Lecture, on Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity. [Abstract]

• Humphry Davy
• Abstracts of the Papers Printed in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London
  Vol. 1, (1800 - 1814), pp. 247-253
  (article consists of 7 pages)
• Published by: The Royal Society
• Stable URL: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

I think the Bakerian paper has the reference of:
Nascent Hydrogen. The doctrine of the nascent state has been developed, for the most part, in terms of hydrogen. Davy noticed in 1807 that electrolytic hydrogen will combine with nitrogen in the presence of water, while ordinary hydrogen will not.

The Nascent State, J. H. Reedy and E. D. Biggers, J. Chem. Educ., 1942, 19 (9), p 403, DOI: 10.1021/ed019, p403, Publication Date: September 1942.


Here is the full Bakerian paper for free - I don't recall if that reference
is in this paper or another.
The Bakerian Lecture: On Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity — Philosophical Transactions

In any case, it is NOT necessary for anyone to know anything about this
paper to do the experiments. I'm posting it because it is simply the oldest
reference I know of showing that where there is nitrogen in the presence
of water being split that hydrogen will bond to the nitrogen.

In that Bakerian paper, you'll also see references to the nitrogen
"dissolved gases" that Meyer always talks about even though the Meyer
"gurus" make it sound like the amount is insignificant. Those opinions are
irrelevant and have been for over 200 years. There are significant
pH changes, etc... in the water and is known, shown, scientifically
validated that much of the action with simply "water" can create various
chemicals other than just those strictly related to H and O - and in this
Davy paper, there is a whole section on "dissolved gases", word for work
what Meyer is talking about.

Now when bubbling ambient air or exhaust nitrogen through water, you'll
have more nitrogen available than just water that has been "exposed to
air" as Davy discusses.

Just for a reference and interesting history that backs what is discussed
in this thread and just for fun - and it is NOT required to understand these
references to make something work. Just good to have the references to
substantiate the principles that are involved in making real water fuel.

If that Bakerian paper doesn't have the reference, please let me know and
I'll try to find it in the other papers.

Here is an old post with a bunch of other nh3 creation references from
way back:
http://www.energeticforum.com/90017-post533.html

This post has been so influential to me that I've made a shortcut to it...

http://tinyurl.com/humphry-davy

[Michael John Nunnerley]

For me this is the bad copy of CRE device made from Dr. Stiffler or I'm wrong?

Dr. Stiffler CRE, my version - YouTube

Wrong, I think, if you don't mind me saying, the bad copy is what you have done, or I should say your understanding.

The caps are for electron capture from recombination of H and O "hydrogen cell"

The electrodes change potencial + -

The spike you see in your video is the recombination of H and O "electron ejection"

In my video the electrolyte is not salt and water, you will notice the one electrode changes colour in my video, this is molecular change also giving up electrons which are collected, the real power behind the system

The gas output in mine is nearly all Hydrogen, the oxygen has been used up in oxidation, that is the colour change as carbon is used in the electrolyte in the form of CO2, a carbon oxide is formed in one moment and then in the next hydrogenated.

Huge electron movement takes place in SMD, it can give nearly twice the amount of "hydrogen" than normal electrolysis, the trick is using up the oxygen in chemical change that gives up electrons which are reused to create the hydrogen.

Vola

regards

Mike

This is many years of work and is still ongoing, it has now developed into the hydrogen pile.

[new_world]

SMD electrolysis - YouTube

Still loading, will take time, but here is a direct link, as it is 12:45 and going to bed

Mike

For me this is the bad copy of CRE device made from Dr. Stiffler or I'm wrong?

Dr. Stiffler CRE, my version - YouTube

[Vinyasi]

Just for the full Sir Humphrey Davy reference:

The Bakerian Lecture, on Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity. [Abstract]

• Humphry Davy
• Abstracts of the Papers Printed in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London
  Vol. 1, (1800 - 1814), pp. 247-253
  (article consists of 7 pages)
• Published by: The Royal Society
• Stable URL: JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

I think the Bakerian paper has the reference of:
Nascent Hydrogen. The doctrine of the nascent state has been developed, for the most part, in terms of hydrogen. Davy noticed in 1807 that electrolytic hydrogen will combine with nitrogen in the presence of water, while ordinary hydrogen will not.

The Nascent State, J. H. Reedy and E. D. Biggers, J. Chem. Educ., 1942, 19 (9), p 403, DOI: 10.1021/ed019, p403, Publication Date: September 1942.


Here is the full Bakerian paper for free - I don't recall if that reference
is in this paper or another.
The Bakerian Lecture: On Some Chemical Agencies of Electricity — Philosophical Transactions

In any case, it is NOT necessary for anyone to know anything about this
paper to do the experiments. I'm posting it because it is simply the oldest
reference I know of showing that where there is nitrogen in the presence
of water being split that hydrogen will bond to the nitrogen.

In that Bakerian paper, you'll also see references to the nitrogen
"dissolved gases" that Meyer always talks about even though the Meyer
"gurus" make it sound like the amount is insignificant. Those opinions are
irrelevant and have been for over 200 years. There are significant
pH changes, etc... in the water and is known, shown, scientifically
validated that much of the action with simply "water" can create various
chemicals other than just those strictly related to H and O - and in this
Davy paper, there is a whole section on "dissolved gases", word for work
what Meyer is talking about.

Now when bubbling ambient air or exhaust nitrogen through water, you'll
have more nitrogen available than just water that has been "exposed to
air" as Davy discusses.

Just for a reference and interesting history that backs what is discussed
in this thread and just for fun - and it is NOT required to understand these
references to make something work. Just good to have the references to
substantiate the principles that are involved in making real water fuel.

If that Bakerian paper doesn't have the reference, please let me know and
I'll try to find it in the other papers.

Here is an old post with a bunch of other nh3 creation references from
way back:
http://www.energeticforum.com/90017-post533.html

I'm beginning to suspect that Genepax managed to take Stanley Meyer's technology one step further....

If we electrically connect the chamber wherein the nitrogen plus hydrogen converts into ammonia with another chamber where the ammonia is catalyzed to convert back into nitrogen, then these two chambers could develop electrical potentials between them capable of generating current sufficient to supply an electric load, such as: an electric motor.

So, Genepax may have developed a fuel cell (far superior to the conventional wisdom) utilizing the benefit of hydrogen and nitrogen -- conversion into ammonia -- generating a negative charge, and the conversion of ammonia plus oxygen back into nitrogen (with water as a byproduct) generating a positive charge.

Since their debut in 2008(?), Genepax has been muted....

Genepax (Japanese Water Car Company) Shut to Silence - The Green Optimistic

....they must be onto something. Anyone who can take water and air and turn it into electricity -- on the fly -- to run a car must be doing something right.

Japanese to mass produce cars that run off water! - YouTube

Or else, could I be reading too much into this story by weaving a fantastic fable?

Links in Japanese >>



Genepax Water Car from Japan TV - YouTube

GENEPAX WATER ENERGY SYSTEM - YouTube

Japanese water powered car 2 - YouTube

[Harvey]

Hello, im curious as to why they need a alternating pulses to split water as opposed to two static electric fields on opposite ends. Would the static fields pull apart a water molecule.
Thanks and all the best
SV

If you think about it, using a static field would be similar to trying to separate two magnets from each other by placing them in a larger (and higher density) magnetic field.

The magnets would no doubt choose one polarity or the other and migrate toward that pole depending on location and orientation. In a similar way, water molecules would react in a static E field, propagating toward the attractive pole.

What would be required to cause the two magnets to separate using only magnetic force to do so?

[stevenv9179]

why alternating pulses

Hello, im curious as to why they need a alternating pulses to split water as opposed to two static electric fields on opposite ends. Would the static fields pull apart a water molecule.
Thanks and all the best
SV

[vrand]

OK the video is now on my web site with a little more explination. You really must think of the implications of this, even though I have shown only a very very basic setup so you can visualise the reaction.

This is common duct and with no catalyst electrodes, a full working modular cell has been designed and a further cell design which separates the gases. Note the distance from one electrode to the other, it is 4cm "11/2"".

enjoy

Mike

Are your electrodes completely coated with insulation? What do you use for the insulation? Tube metal type? What type of water, tap, distilled or seawater?

Per your paper "none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o-part-two":
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...o-part-two.pdf

"In a tube cell immersed in water the tubes have to be insulated completely so as not to give direct contact with the water and so to one another. Only RF waves are wanted to pass through the water creating Vbe from the heterodyning signals."

What is the advantage using tubes vs. plate electrodes?

Cheers Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Interesting electrolysis setup, hope to learn more.
Cheers Mike

Thank you, well recieved.PP.

Mike

[vrand]

OK the video is now on my web site with a little more explination. You really must think of the implications of this, even though I have shown only a very very basic setup so you can visualise the reaction.

This is common duct and with no catalyst electrodes, a full working modular cell has been designed and a further cell design which separates the gases. Note the distance from one electrode to the other, it is 4cm "11/2"".

enjoy

Mike

Interesting electrolysis setup, hope to learn more.
Cheers Mike

[vrand]

Sorry but the video is taking some time to load, it is at 67% at the moment. Once loaded I will post a link to my site "centraflow" as posted by vrand, thanks.

My paypal e-mail is as posted before, seems I can't put the donate into English as I am here in Spain and has to be in Spanish.

Mike

Thanks for the update.
Cheers Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

video

OK the video is now on my web site with a little more explination. You really must think of the implications of this, even though I have shown only a very very basic setup so you can visualise the reaction.

This is common duct and with no catalyst electrodes, a full working modular cell has been designed and a further cell design which separates the gases. Note the distance from one electrode to the other, it is 4cm "11/2"".

enjoy

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Direct link to video

SMD electrolysis - YouTube

Still loading, will take time, but here is a direct link, as it is 12:45 and going to bed

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

video

Sorry but the video is taking some time to load, it is at 67% at the moment. Once loaded I will post a link to my site "centraflow" as posted by vrand, thanks.

My paypal e-mail is as posted before, seems I can't put the donate into English as I am here in Spain and has to be in Spanish.

Mike