What of Meyer�s original WFC?

[Farrah Day]

http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/search.htm

[boguslaw]

Do you mean pure voltage polarization process ?
I still believe it's crucial phenomenon and can't be excluded. If someone states that he rediscovered Meyer device he also must know how to make water polarization process.

Now - let's see.... To make a nice amount of gas from water we need large current during electrolysis process. Take for example 20 Amps
What if we would be able to extract those 20Amps of electron current directly from water ? Maybe water will be converted to gas at the same rate as per 20Amps pushed into water from external source ?
Now look at Kapanadze device videos when he pull 23A from ground (water pipe system) - what if he do the same using WFC tubes separated only by 1 mm gap ?

[Farrah Day]

Do you mean pure voltage polarization process ?

Not exactly sure what you mean by this, but basically I think we're on the same page, so... hesitantly... yes.

Though just to be clear, I'm refering to the WFC that incorporates multiple ss tubes in water to provide the required gases by dissociating the water molecule.

Just wondered why people who are still fanatically following Meyer are now by-passing the initial gas formation stage altogether.

Surely it is far more logical to start on page 1.

Just seems very odd to me, that is... unless they see this as no more than simple everyday electrolysis. And of course if Meyer was employing simple everyday electrolysis, this itself would not lend any great credibility to anything that follows...

...just a thought!

[Aaron]

Meyer and HHO

Farrah,

Many of Meyer's fans are indeed still working on making as much gas as
possible from tube cells. I went that route too.

There is zero proof that Meyer ever made large amounts of gas from the
water cell - and that was never necessary to begin with. His gas production
in 100% of every video shown with Meyer is very unimpressive to me.

The HHO is simply a catalyst and only a small amount of it is required to
run an engine on water. There have been multiple successes and all of them
only need small amounts of HHO. The Ionization and Water Fuel thread
has more of the truth to the reaction process than anywhere else on the
internet.

There are multiple problems with trying to run a regular engine on HHO.
Some people can do it - but the amount of mechanical power extracted
from the motor cannot turn a generator enough to supply equal or more
power to a generator to produce it's own required gas. Essentially, it is
a waste of time, money and effort.

The on demand NH3 creation in the process that uses a small amount of
HHO is what was always done to begin with but everyone has been
focusing on the misleading parts of Meyer's explanations instead of
focusing on the few parts that he even spelled out in his own words -
but most Meyer followers want to ignore those and focus on the
distractions.

[dankie]

I see infinite potential in the water for fuel idea , Xogen , dingle , Meyers ... I like the idea of using water and discovering all its secrets , from healthy magic water to water purifiers , heat , I like the idea , I am in control , I see new idea everyday and we make a good team , me , my scope , my homebuilt master oscillators and my water listening device .

I dont have complex machinery for cutting motors and find the experimentation more boring . I am not in control .

[HairBear]

The demo cells are not the whole deal when it comes to water as fuel. You don't even need a cell per se, if you go the injector route. Most of the processes occur in the injector much like a cell only the water is atomized and mixed with other gasses. Easy Cheesy! eh?

[Matthew Jones]

There are multiple problems with trying to run a regular engine on HHO.
Some people can do it - but the amount of mechanical power extracted
from the motor cannot turn a generator enough to supply equal or more
power to a generator to produce it's own required gas. Essentially, it is
a waste of time, money and effort.

You don't even need a cell per se, if you go the injector route. Most of the processes occur in the injector much like a cell only the water is atomized and mixed with other gases. Easy Cheesy! eh?

You don't even need current. Some of the small tests I have done with a cell were on an open loop in a Tesla Switch configuration.
They produced gas that was flammable and a good portion of the energy passed through the Cell was recovered. A pure flow of potential and it made HHO.

Matt

[sucahyo]

You don't even need current. Some of the small tests I have done with a cell were on an open loop in a Tesla Switch configuration.
They produced gas that was flammable and a good portion of the energy passed through the Cell was recovered. A pure flow of potential and it made HHO.

Matt

Lol, that's cheating, you are using excess energy of your radiant generator. You still use the same old electrolysis process but you gain more because you utilize radiant gain.

If the purposes is to get electricity or to drive motor, might as well use them directly.

Such example is Bob Boyce. He achieve not super efficient electrolysis but a super efficient electricity source. He believe that the future of his hex controller is not in electrolysis but in power generation (check his statement at waterfuelforall forum)....

[Aaron]

voltage potential water separation

Matt,

I've done the same. I also experimented with a tay hee han cell that
uses nothing but electrostatic stress.

In Meyer's technical manual, on page 8 I think, he starts off with a title
or subtitle saying that he is using voltage potential to split water.

[Matthew Jones]

Lol, that's cheating, you are using excess energy of your radiant generator. You still use the same old electrolysis process but you gain more because you utilize radiant gain.
If the purposes is to get electricity or to drive motor, might as well use them directly.

It has nothing do with radiant energy. High potential and low potential are all you need to split water into gas, while retaining your initial energy. Nothing to do with radiant energy.
And no the purpose of making hydrogen is so you can store energy until it is needed in one form or another, whether it be burning or other.
If it costs you very little to nothing to make it then its free energy. But no cheating. If it works its perfectly legal (natural), whether the rules say so or not.

Matt,
....
In Meyer's technical manual, on page 8 I think, he starts off with a title
or subtitle saying that he is using voltage potential to split water.

Thats how it always looked to me. Could you point me to that Aaron if you don't mind?

The fact is water is not a constant molecule. The H2 and the O are only bonded for a period of time. They are in motion, attracting and repulsing. You only need a monopole type E field to throw them off to one direction or the other. Then you need the proper frequencies to sink that monopole charge to the frequency of the water. Base on the charge one molecule will gain energy and momentum and can split several more just with residual field that resides on it. The charge will then be released from the molecule and can be captured eventually on the lower potential plate.

It not a hard thing to understand, though it may be a hard thing to implement. I have not spent alot of time looking at it myself.

I have seen it work on a potential only system and that alone does not sink well with what is "Common" in HHO production.

Matt

[Aaron]

voltage potential

Matt,

Page 8 of the document:
water to combustable - Stanley Meyers-Water Fuel-Cell-Technical Brief-FULL

Voltage potential is in quotes. 5-6 years ago in icubenetwork, before
they shut down, I was trying to get everyone on the voltage potential
bandwagon when everyone was looking for magical frequencies.

[Matthew Jones]

Ya its gotta be the only way to go about it. Or else it ends up being like you said to much work.

And really to make it happen doesn't have to be a large trick. You need to redo the a voltage regulator in the Alternator of the car. Maybe have (For example) have it put out 20 volt. Everything would first go through the Cell. After it left it would be somewhere around the 14 volt mark, because the load always reduces the voltage some, then the energy left over could do the rest of the work in the car as well as charge a battery.

The frequencies probably matter to an extent, but more than that it the E or M field stress put on the water from the plates. The molecules have a charge, they want to move. If you make them move with potential only then the frequency will present itself over time. But with the use of current you are changing the resistance or impedance of the water itself because of the amount of charge present in the water. It becomes Magnetic of Electrically altered and the frequency at which the H2 and the O resonate changes.

Then you have to factor in heat. At that pace you will never find a correct frequency to resonate the molecules, and even if you get lucky how long is it going to last. At that point all you can do is dump more current and hope to overcome.

At least that is the only way I can see it. There may be another argument in another direction but every way I see it it just make more sense to use only potential and not current.

Thanks for the link
Matt

[sucahyo]

And no the purpose of making hydrogen is so you can store energy until it is needed in one form or another, whether it be burning or other.

Can we really store it safely? won't it be very dangerous to store hydrogen that contaminated with more than 1% of oxygen?

[Schpankme]

Many trying to replicate hydrogen through Electrolysis would be extremely happy utilizing the low-tech methods dating back to the civil war and described in this book:

The Chemistry and Manufacture of Hydrogen
by P. Litherland Teed
164 pages 5.5x8.5 inches [size]

Knowledge Publications
has one of the best books ever written on Hydrogen, this is the first printing of The Chemistry and Manufacture of Hydrogen since 1919! With the republication of this book and others like it we are realizing the most fundamental purpose for producing written records: the preservation and rediscovery of knowledge.

Schpankme

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." - Frank Zappa

[Matthew Jones]

IT comes out of the water in goes through the condenser (another tank of water), Pressurizes (while in storage) at 15 psi or so. Then enters the combustion system of the engine. I know its semantics but....

Hydrogen can be pressurized and stored in tanks. I don't know what the process is but I know the have it at the gas place. They sell it at a shell station out of a pump in Washington DC for some fuel cell test cars.

I'll tell ya first hand, if I build a small cell thats works at some point, I ain't gonna burn it in my car, I am going to use it for the Barbecue. LOL

Cheers
Matt