Ionization & Water Fuel

[Aaron]

tungsten

You must be thinking of tungsten as a *catalyst* in this reaction, no?

I do. I'm not sure if anyone else would consider it to technically be a
catalyst, but seeing it is THE metal to use and that it doesn't get oxidized,
I would call it a catalyst. It appears to aid in the reaction while not changing itself. (if there is enough hydrogen engulfing the metal)

Whether or not it is really a catalyst, tungsten is the material to use
for plug electrodes - used with a plasma ignition - or as the ignition
industry calls it - "plasma jet ignition".

[vrand]

We are in 2010, 30 years ago would be 1980's

Mike

Thank you for the correction

What is the prior art from 30 years ago? Patent #?

Regards

[Michael John Nunnerley]

something wrong with your maths

What is the 1930's prior art patent #?

Yeah sad really, if applied for a patent here in the US it would be slapped with a NSO (National Secrecy Order), i.e. the inventor can not even talk about it let alone try to build and market it.

Regards

We are in 2010, 30 years ago would be 1980's

Mike

[vrand]

Lets get back to basics.

First of all N2 has to be changed as N2 is one of the most stable elements in its N2 form, but once changed it is one of the most UNSTABLE and will want to go back to what it was before "stable", that is its nature.

So before anything you need to crack nitrogen in an energy efficient way and mix it with other atomic or molecular elements to form what you want in 0.5-5sec. Can't be done, yes it can, but you will have to wait a bit to know how it is done, and no, I will not be patenting this, that would lead to locking it up so as not to be used, there is a prior art dating back nearly 30 years, so a patent would probably not be granted.

Mike

What is the 1930's prior art patent #?

Yeah sad really, if applied for a patent here in the US it would be slapped with a NSO (National Secrecy Order), i.e. the inventor can not even talk about it let alone try to build and market it.

Regards

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Back to basics

Lets get back to basics.

First of all N2 has to be changed as N2 is one of the most stable elements in its N2 form, but once changed it is one of the most UNSTABLE and will want to go back to what it was before "stable", that is its nature.

So before anything you need to crack nitrogen in an energy efficient way and mix it with other atomic or molecular elements to form what you want in 0.5-5sec. Can't be done, yes it can, but you will have to wait a bit to know how it is done, and no, I will not be patenting this, that would lead to locking it up so as not to be used, there is a prior art dating back nearly 30 years, so a patent would probably not be granted.

Mike

[Wilbert]

Tungsten and the plasma arc has multiple purposes or properties and one
is heat dissociation. There are others - just check those two articles.
Something mentioned as being important.

When tungsten electrodes are used, the heat dissocation of H2 to 2H runs at "atmospheric pressure", says lateral science.
(When no tungsten electrodes, then no atmospheric pressure????)

When tungsten, then AC arc is possible, says lateral science.
(Some advandage of AC????)

So, it looks like the atomic nitrogen seeks 3 electrons to make nh3.

Lets have N (made fresh from N2, but what methode?), and lets have H and H and H (fresh made from what, with what methode?). Is it enough to make NH3 or what? Must something else provide this 3e- or is that singleone e- from each H enough?


Regards
Wilbert

[vrand]

No because as I have written is very dangerous and that method can't pass with governative authorizations, at the same time that is the reason because Meyer have created injector plug. That component have double function.. wfc and arcjet at the same time.. water fuel is composed from excited ions but isn't an burnable mixture, is sended inside first stage (wfc) and transformed in N2H4/N2O and sended directly to second stage (arcjet) connected in combustion chambre. Using similar wfc method (but not arcjet) and use other type of water with different PH you can create with success NH3/N2O as gas and send inside engine. Regards

Ahh ok, thanks

Do you corona discharge, in 3 to 4 stages of electrode zones?

How do you determine you are creating NH3/N2O gas?

Regards

[tutanka]

Do you use a plasma arc?

Regards

No because as I have written is very dangerous and that method can't pass with governative authorizations, at the same time that is the reason because Meyer have created injector plug. That component have double function.. wfc and arcjet at the same time.. water fuel is composed from excited ions but isn't an burnable mixture, is sended inside first stage (wfc) and transformed in N2H4/N2O and sended directly to second stage (arcjet) connected in combustion chambre. Using similar wfc method (but not arcjet) and use other type of water with different PH you can create with success NH3/N2O as gas and send inside engine. Regards

[Powerman]

I hope u dont mind me butting in here Powerman... Can u tell me what kind of engine u are trying to run?

Hi Vickers - no probs jumping in. I have a few engines at my disposal. A couple of Briggs & Stratton 3.5HP lawnmowers, a 6HP Lawntop 3.0kW generator, a 3.8L Pontiac V6 , and a 1981 460CID Ford V8. The vehicles are still running. All of these engines run on gasoline.

So far my sights are set on the 6HP Lawntop to start with. It's a single cylinder. Not sure of the exact displacement but personally I think it's got to be less than 400cc.

[Vickers]

Hi Aaron - I have finally finished reading through the whole thread. Wow - very interesting. I believe you, Tutanka and likely many others of like mind are on the right path. I am one of those that totally believed the Meyer's stuff for years. Having built a WCF based on his patents I can vouch it doesn't work - at least not based on the information as-is in the patent(s) for the purpose of running an engine. It has been a good learning experience though.

As soon as I got to the point of the incoming air stream being ionized as suggested in this thread, the lights came on for me! I picked up materials over this weekend to start creating my own experimental work. I'll keep everyone posted as progress (or regress?? lol) is made!

You must be thinking of tungsten as a *catalyst* in this reaction, no?

Cheers!

I hope u dont mind me butting in here Powerman... Can u tell me what kind of engine u are trying to run?

[Powerman]

So it it helps a reaction but doesn't get changed itself, it's usually
referred to as being something very specific even though it may not be
technically considered that.

Hi Aaron - I have finally finished reading through the whole thread. Wow - very interesting. I believe you, Tutanka and likely many others of like mind are on the right path. I am one of those that totally believed the Meyer's stuff for years. Having built a WCF based on his patents I can vouch it doesn't work - at least not based on the information as-is in the patent(s) for the purpose of running an engine. It has been a good learning experience though.

As soon as I got to the point of the incoming air stream being ionized as suggested in this thread, the lights came on for me! I picked up materials over this weekend to start creating my own experimental work. I'll keep everyone posted as progress (or regress?? lol) is made!

You must be thinking of tungsten as a *catalyst* in this reaction, no?

Cheers!

[vrand]

You have to think with your mind.. plasma arc is very dangerous and letal. Maybe exist other solution for obtain same result. Regards

Do you use a plasma arc?

Regards

[Aaron]

helps reaction without changing itself

hydrogen envelope prevents oxidation both of the metal and the tungsten electrodes

So it it helps a reaction but doesn't get changed itself, it's usually
referred to as being something very specific even though it may not be
technically considered that.

[kick-bak]

Thinking out loud

Aaron

I think the pieces are coming together for anyone paying attention.

Just thinking out loud here from reading through the 2 Lateral Science articles.


"the hydrogen is obtained by cracking anhydrous ammonia. NH3"

I see why Tutanka likes NH3.


"heat is generated by passing a stream of hydrogen through an electric arc"

This is where Tutanka liked the Meyers secound patent that uses Injector.


"The high temperature of the arc dissociates molecules of the gas into atoms"

"a large quantity of heat being absorbed by the hydrogen during dissociation"

"When the atoms leave the influence of the arc they recombine, forming molecules of hydrogen and liberating heat previously absorbed"

The hydrogen carries the heat from the arc to the reaction?


"this recombination is accelerated catalytically by contact with the surface of the metal being welded."

Not sure what happens to the Piston bore here.?


"The hydrogen envelope prevents oxidation and it also reduces the risk of nitrogen pick-up"

So we should end up with nice clean spark plugs?

[FrozenWaterLab]

When the Plug fires, some of the tungsten (A small quantity to be sure)
must vaporize. Dose this act as a catalyst in some way? Mabey?
OK Chem heads what would be the make up of Tungsten?

What kind of dissociation is explained in those articles.
Atoms of the gas (hydrogen) they recombine forming molecules of hydrogen and liberating heat previously absorbed.
The hydrogen envelope prevents oxidation both of the metal and the tungsten electrodes, and it
also reduces the risk of nitrogen pick-up
??????????

FrznWtr