Ionization & Water Fuel

[tutanka]

Nitrogen and Oxygen | TutorVista

"Nitrogen obtained from air contains traces of oxygen. To remove these, the nitrogen so obtained is passed over heated copper turnings when copper reacts with oxygen to form CuO."

I'm not implying get rid of oxygen.

But passing ambient air over heated copper helps to strip oxygen from
nitrogen - I guess this is useful only if we're trying to separate nitrogen
from oxygen, which doesn't seem to be a concern... just interesting nitrogen
info.

It is true that nitrogen normally isn't very soluable in water.

"Nitrogen gas is very sparingly soluble (almost insoluble) in water: 23 mL per litre of water at 0°C and 1 atm pressure."

However:

" Sir Humphry Davy in 1907 found that nitrogen will bond to electrolytic hydrogen in the presence of water when normal hydrogen won’t."

Nitrogen has the ability to bond to hydrogen directly in a wfc (electrolytic hydrogen)

It seems that whether it is bubbled in the bottom of the cell or simply added to warm
moisture leaving the cell, it will make Nitrogen Hydroxide.

And maybe the meyer EEC IS ONLY COPPER WIRE GRID electrically heated for absorb oxygen and released ONLY nitrogen previoulsy ionized and now charged negatively passing trought thermoionic field

[tutanka]

Here are some items that may need to be considered in addition to the
things I posted in the document...

Meyer had the injectors at 125psi or something like that. Perhaps this
Nitrogen Hydroxide needs to be pressurized to the intake?

The polarity of ignition has to be considered. Not sure if there is a difference
if it is positive grounded or negative grounded.

Maybe the engine needs to be warmed up with gasoline first then switch
over to the N(OH)2. Otherwise it will be starting the engine cold on this
water fuel and heat is supposed to be crucial to the reaction.

You don't need gasoline as starter for your engine..
You need to think which are the differences from an diesel and gasoline engine .. when an component isn't powered properly your diesel engine don't run.

[Aaron]

glow plugs?

Glow plugs to preheat?

[tutanka]

Glow plugs to preheat?

Maybe

[tutanka]

I think catalyst and air mixture is also important if the gas is NH3.

I think NH3 should be the goal, maybe deserve a new thread but let see the result of italian team first.

BTW, I feel like I repeating someone else word, someone that claim to have understood it. Sorry that I forget your name and where you post them.........

Good illumination.. Regards

[tutanka]

Here are some items that may need to be considered in addition to the
things I posted in the document...

Meyer had the injectors at 125psi or something like that. Perhaps this
Nitrogen Hydroxide needs to be pressurized to the intake?

The polarity of ignition has to be considered. Not sure if there is a difference
if it is positive grounded or negative grounded.

Maybe the engine needs to be warmed up with gasoline first then switch
over to the N(OH)2. Otherwise it will be starting the engine cold on this
water fuel and heat is supposed to be crucial to the reaction.

HI Aaron,
You have an great mind, entirety we could make great things.
You have evidenced other important point.. the pressure of 8.6bar (125psi) is important for reaction, only with that N2 can absorb radicals OH releasing H2, also italian Lens have used pressure, of course they use more pressure because ONLY UV field is apply for dissociation of water.
Unipolar voltage that run inside injector break water droplets because is mixed, to pressure, with ionized air, that create an conductive mixture for obtain an fast reaction when HV field is apply.
As you can see from that example pressure is connected ONLY to nitrogen not to oxgen..

[pengrove]

Wow so this all sounds interesting and very complex at the same time. So a system would need a pressure pump, heating elements, Ionizer, special injectors, water fuel cell, timing system. I could never build a system like this in my shed.

[h20power]

Now I posted a chance for all of you to try and blow the theories I proposed out of the water, and back to God here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...urce-fuel.html give it your best shot but please read it and answer as best you can with science and mathematical solutions.


h2opower.

[Aaron]

High-pressure photodissociation of water as a tool for hydrogen synthesis and fundame

the pressure of 8.6bar (125psi) is important for reaction, only with that N2 can absorb radicals OH releasing H2, also italian Lens have used pressure, of course they use more pressure because ONLY UV field is apply for dissociation of water.

Unipolar voltage that run inside injector break water droplets because is mixed, to pressure, with ionized air, that create an conductive mixture for obtain an fast reaction when HV field is apply.
As you can see from that example pressure is connected ONLY to nitrogen not to oxgen..

Thank you!

For engine warming, possibly glow plugs. (maybe)

I never had a diesel and never worked on one. But maybe it is a
Block Heater or Heated Dip Stick or other Oil Heater?

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Here is the COMPLETE ENGLISH article for the LENS Experiment:
High-pressure photodissociation of water as a tool for hydrogen synthesis and fundamental chemistry

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The only place in the engine with 125psi or more will be during compression
of the mixture in the combustion chamber. So with higher compression,
the reaction should be more better? Can this compression be used to
cause this or does the air/water mixture need to be pre-compressed
before delivered to combustion chamber? See below...

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I found this comment online:

"The tubojet engines adapted for cars was in fact a very good engine, unfortunately its fuel efficiency was very low, consuming something like eight times the amount of fuel used by a piston engine car. The thing that I find impressive about the Rotary Pulse Jet Engine is that it provides equivalent power to that of a piston engine. In effect what the Rotary Pulse Jet Engine does is to take only the combustion chamber volume of the IC piston engine and discards the rest, cylinder, pistons, piston rings etc., It then supplies compressed air to this combustion chamber (rocket pods) at 125 psi from an external tank, the compressed air supplied to the combustion chambers by the external tank( a very small volume 18 cu ins) is constantly replenished by a commercially available belt driven air compressor that can deliver 8.5 cu ft min at 125 psi ! The thing that makes the rotary Jet Engine possible is the use of rotary union, this makes possible the introduction of fuel and compressed air to the rotor even though the rotor is rotating at high speed! Otherwise imagine the situation, here is the rotor spinning at several thousand rpm and you are trying to introduce fuel and air into it ! Sounds ridiculous and it is the rotary union that makes it possible. The rest is simple, the compressed air fuel mixture id fed into the combustion chambers through a poppet valve, 125 psi works out to a compression ratio of 9:!. The poppet valve is closed, sealing the combustion chamber and the fuel/air mixture is ignited using a piezo electric spark plug. A Valve to the CDN (Convergent divergent nozzle ) is opened and the hot gases of expansion escape at velocity driving the rotor forward through reactive forces. django."

[everwiser]

Is the pressure needed in the combustion chamber at compression or is the pressure required at injection to atomize the component ionized gases?

The higher the pressure of injection the better the atomization/mixing of the injected fluids (air is a fluid). Compression easily meets or exceeds 125 psi in nearly all modern engines.

[dave_cahoon]

Drexel may hold a key

Hi Aaron, group,

Wow nice Thread. I had no idea that, that much hho recombines in a water fuel cell. Using nitrogen to fix the protium to fix the nitrogen. ha! Atomic hydrogen reaction then on to water with oxygen.. (p+p+2e)=h2+thermal heat. Far greater reaction than hho->water. which can then happen next! Then we have N+ ready to combine back to N2 too. This sounds great. If thats how its working than far less H2O need be cracked. to "get" a robust fuel gas.

Ultrasonic water fog, some air, and the Drexel like, hot electron, corona plasma. And some way of pulling the dense fog and air through the system to a burner. Residence time will be one of the variables.

Take a look at the cost for Drexel type processing.

Only 2% Of total Energy Consumption Required for Plasma Power.
Electric Energy Cost 0.06KWh/m^3 of syn-gas (energy from syn-gas = 3.0KWh/m^3)

From second from last page at this link.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/4498d1262343392-geet-paul-pantone-fridman.pdf

Also the urea system; Urea about 100$ a ton, cracks with about 0.4v.

Urine (about 5% urea) with its water content may also be a key.
(as disgusting as it may sound, its biomass, and far less disgusting than a manure digester producing methane gas.)

Now I wonder what role Nitrogen plays is in the GEET??, it most certainly is in all GEETs.

Dave

[dave_cahoon]

Has anyone seen Tesla ring discharge.
A sheet of electricity forming from a ring electrode to a larger ring.
I think that he was reveling a gas processor in 2d. I have done that with two loops of solid copper wire and a tesla/lodge coil long ago. It sure did make ozone. Enough to keep you upwind from the thing outside..

Dave

[dave_cahoon]

For people wondering why there is a solenoid or coil of wire wrapped around the reactor; Oxygen is Magnetic.
YouTube - Paramagnetism of Liquid Oxygen

[Stealth]

To ignite Hydrogen, it takes 1065-1095 degrees F. Combustion pound for pound of Hydrogen mixed with other gases is, Oxygen 7.94,Nitrogen 26.41, and air 34.34. Air combined with hydrogen makes for the most explosive combination. Although nitrogen is not far behind. When seperating H20 into hydrogen and oxygen, the oxygen should not be used as air has far more combustable properties when combined with hydrogen. Good Luck. Stealth

[Aaron]

Efficient Motors for Nitrogen Hydroxide

I just posted this for explorations of different engine geometries that
are better than typical ICE for Nitrogen Hydroxide:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5318-efficient-motors-nitrogen-hydroxide.html