Stanley Meyer Explained

[h20power]

Hi Radiant_Science,

Lets just agree to disagree on this one okay? For you want the Gas Processor to create the O3 and I want it to strip oxygen atoms of their electrons some four or more. Ozone is very bad as it eats up most types of seals. The GP is set up to not create O3 but lone O atoms these atoms are hit with electron collisions and photon bombardment in some of the absorption wavelengths of oxygen. Then this highly ionized air gas is mixed with the water mist that most of it will turn into vapor due to the phase diagram of water in that the water is about 85-90 degrees C under pressure and is injected into a low pressure zone.

As this mixture moves through the voltage zone the water molecules are charge each of the same polarity so they will repel each other and not form larger droplets, that overcomes the adhesive properties of water taking on the same charge. At around 20 kv the cohesive properties are overcome and the water droplet divides into two smaller droplets dividing the voltage between the two as it does, but as long as it is in the voltage zone it will be recharged and the process repeats until a critical volume is reached. Once at the critical volume and charged to the maximum degree again the molecule simply breaks down into it's component elements for this is an image charge with very little current not enough to ignite the mixture just to break it apart. Now why it is still in the voltage zone the voltage zone acts like the gas processor but only electrons are colliding with the freshly created oxygen and hydrogen atoms. When I ran my numbers on the speeds of the fuel injectors and the length of the voltage zone compared to a frequency of 50 kHz I got a total of 86-89 hits on the water molecules, already ionized air gases, and recirculated exhaust gases. So if it only take 40 hits to break down the water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen then the remaining hits will be on the hydrogen and oxygen atoms while still inside of the fuel injectors. Now raising the voltage will charge the water mist faster towards the dividing point.

As for the EEC on the injectors Meyer's only shows it as a amp consuming device inline with the positive side of the voltage zone. So that must be tested out to see just what it does.

The reason I wanted you to look at energy content calculations is if you did you would easily see that O3 + 6H does have more energy content than just plain 2H + O which is at 286 kJ/mol, but they both fall well short of gasolines 5088 kJ/mol (depending on grade). Only by stripping the oxygen atoms of 4 or more electrons will it surpass the energy content of gasoline. So if you don't allow the GP to strip these electrons off then you will not get the needed energy content to replace gasoline and if you allow the GP to produce O3 instead of striped oxygen atoms you will fall short on energy content. That is what I wanted you to see, the energy content in the reaction you are saying is taking place vs that of gasoline and then compare those numbers to what Meyer claims he was capable of doing. You will find that it wont match up to Meyer's claims.

You are right when you say it is unknown the chemical breakdown when the critical volume of water is reached: for is it H3O+(aq) + OH-(aq) = 4H (g) + 2O (g) or is it H2O(aq) = 2H (g) + O (g)? one of the two is happening, which one of the two as of now I can not answer. But yours seems more plausible due to the voltage stresses placed on the water molecules by the voltage zone.

Now what I think that quote you place on is saying is this; the unstable oxygen atoms have the necessary energy to reach in and take the hydrogen atoms from the water molecule if it comes into direct contact with the water molecules. I have run calculations showing that it does with a surplus of energy before on this thread.

Like I said before if you don't agree then lets just agree to disagree, okay? Thanks.


h2opower.

[Radiant_Science]

Missing my point!

@H2O....I think u missed what I ACTUALLY said...so, I'm gonna underline the key points...please try to focus on what I am saying, and not on what u "know"


I am NOT saying "Don't use an EEC"....I AM saying "There is no EEC in the WFI"

Only the WFC has an Electron Extraction CIRCUIT...There is no isolated EEC in the WFI...

This is a quote you posted from Meyer...I thought u knew what it meant, obviously not!...

The liberated atoms of the water molecule interact with laser primed ionized ambient air gases to cause a highly energized and destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms to thermally ignite.

There is NO chemical reaction between O3 & H2O....Water is neutral, O3 (ozone) is a positive ion. It's not until the two enter the voltage zone that the O3 does anything. The "static" voltage you speak of, cannot separate water alone...at least not permanently. The O3 works on the temporarily polarized water (still liquid (aqueous) H3O+ and OH-) to cancel out the negative ionic charge (OH- -> O and H)....this leaves "destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms" (aqueous H3O+ and gaseous O and H )...**actual phase state (ie, solid, liquid, gas, plasma) may be altered due to atomization/laser bombardment**


You understand what I am trying to tell you now?

O3 IS the EEC in the WFI....

[h20power]

If you would, please show your energy content calculations of the resulting reaction in kJ/mol. O3 + H2O => ?? This is the reaction you are talking about, correct? Please show the energy content one would get from such a reaction.

And why in the world would you not want to use the EEC? For all this time since the death of Stanley Meyer no one has used the EEC and no one has duplicated his work. You can look over You Tube at thousands of videos where people show what happens if you don't use the EEC and also what happens if you don't make the Water Fuel Capacitor(WFC) an isolated circuit(A water fuel cell was created by Sir William Robert Grove Grove, please do not confuse these very different technologies).

The way the injectors work I have shown already and Meyer talks about it here:

The basic electrical system utilized in the invention is depicted in Figure 5 showing the electrical polarization zone 6 which receives and processes the water and gas mixture as a capacitive circuit element in a resonant charging circuit formed by inductors 51 and 52 connected in series with diode 53, pulsed voltage source 54, electron sink 55 and the zone/locus 6 formed from conductive elements 7 and 8. In this manner, electrodes 7 and 8 in the injector form a capacitor which has electrical characteristics dependent on the dielectric media (e.g., the water mist, ionized gases, and non-combustible gases) introduced between the conductive elements. Within the macro-dielectric media, however, the water molecules themselves, because of their polar nature, can be considered micro-capacitors.

That last part is very important for free water droplets in air is a form of a capacitor. Meyer goes on to say this:

In the voltage zone several functions occur simultaneously to initiate and trigger thermal energy yield. Water mist droplets are exposed to high intensity pulsating voltage fields in accordance with an electrical polarization process that separates the atoms of the water molecule and causes the atoms to experience electron ejection. The polar nature of the water molecule which facilitates the formation of minute droplets in the mist appears to cause a relationship between the droplet size and the voltage required to effect the process, i.e., the greater the droplet size, the higher the voltage required. The liberated atoms of the water molecule interact with laser primed ionized ambient air gases to cause a highly energized and destabilized mass of combustible gas atoms to thermally ignite. Incoming ambient air gases are laser primed and ionized when passing through a gas processor; and an electron extraction circuit (Figure 5) captures and consumes in sink 55 ejected electrons and prevents electron flow into the resonant circuit.

This part tells of the droplet size relationship between the voltage required to break it down. Now here I give an illistration of that process: It works by over charging the little capacitor by way of induction that the water droplets pick up as an image charge from the voltage zone. A critical volume is reached and the water molecule breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen. The larger the droplet size the higher the voltage must be to break down the water molecule in the same given time and space. Higher voltages mean faster times to reach the spliting of the water molecules into smaller ones. All I did was translate what Meyer said into terms of science we all could understand.

Now for these two reactions, upsetting of water's equilibrium(WFC) and the charge divid split method(WFI's) both are mixed with the ionized air gases coming from the Gas Processor(GP). And I have already given the energy content calculations for the two said reaction.

I don't mind different theories, but those theories should always include energy content calculations in trying to explain how Stanley Meyer ran his dune buggy using only an hho production rate of 7 L/min show in this video: YouTube - Stanley Meyer's water car's first run.

I am not being mean or disrespectful in anyway, only trying to get you to ask the same questions I ask with concern to Meyer's work. It all comes down to energy content and if you don't get the energy content needed to surpass that of gasoline you will need more of the substance to achieve the same amount of work. In Meyer's case he surpassed the energy content of gasoline thus required much less amounts of substance(water) to achieve the same amount of work that gasoline could do. 87 gallons of gasoline for a trip from LA to NY and only 22 gallons of water for the same distance. When you make your theories make sure they match up to what Stanley Meyer says he was able to do. As for the way I describe his work I made sure to add in the much needed energy content calculations for only then could I self correct myself if things didn't add up to what Meyer claimed he was able to do.


h2opower.

I agree with almost everything u put out H2O...but, I feel you did not stress something enough.

You state that the Water Fuel Injector works in the same manner...which is true...but, I feel the need to explain why it does, w/o an Electron Extraction CIRCUIT.

See, the reason most people see nothing when they attempt to use high volts/low amps, is because the voltage only temporarily separates the water (into aqueous H3O+ and OH- )...as soon as the pulse hits ground state the water just reaches back to equilibrium.

In the Water Fuel CELL...the way to destabilize is by re-routing the negative charge (electrons) to a separate circuit/load immediately as the input charge is shutting off (waters relaxation time holds charge).

In the Water Fuel INJECTOR, the destabilization comes from the pre-made Positive ion known as Ozone that is supplied with the water. As the voltage is applied the water separates and the +ozone interacts with OH- ions stripping their negative charge and releasing gaseous O and H

The key here is the O3 is made in the "Gas Processor" then injected in with water vapor. The high voltage field separates the neutral water molecule, then the +O3 turns the otherwise "temporary phase change" into a permanent separation by neutralizing one side of the equal and opposite polarization.

"Exact Chemical Structures are UNKNOWN"...only theoretical chemical behaviors can be pondered at this time. But, the physics is there...we need to put it together

Furthermore...
Certain frequencies of light push the atom to higher energy levels...also, there's a neat phenomena called stimulated emission only explained with quantum mechanics. Where if a photon (incident beam) hits an electron, the electron jumps up in energy level, only to fall back down...when the electron falls back down, it releases an identical photon traveling in the same direction. These now 2 photons, (if reaction chamber is built right..."resonant cavity" hehe) will bounce back and do it again...over and over.

The higher energy levels mean that the molecules will interact with the voltage zone in a stronger fashion.

Look up MASER
Maser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hydrogen maser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Radiant_Science]

Most important part...

I agree with almost everything u put out H2O...but, I feel you did not stress something enough.

You state that the Water Fuel Injector works in the same manner...which is true...but, I feel the need to explain why it does, w/o an Electron Extraction CIRCUIT.

See, the reason most people see nothing when they attempt to use high volts/low amps, is because the voltage only temporarily separates the water (into aqueous H3O+ and OH- )...as soon as the pulse hits ground state the water just reaches back to equilibrium.

In the Water Fuel CELL...the way to destabilize is by re-routing the negative charge (electrons) to a separate circuit/load immediately as the input charge is shutting off (waters relaxation time holds charge).

In the Water Fuel INJECTOR, the destabilization comes from the pre-made Positive ion known as Ozone that is supplied with the water. As the voltage is applied the water separates and the +ozone interacts with OH- ions stripping their negative charge and releasing gaseous O and H

The key here is the O3 is made in the "Gas Processor" then injected in with water vapor. The high voltage field separates the neutral water molecule, then the +O3 turns the otherwise "temporary phase change" into a permanent separation by neutralizing one side of the equal and opposite polarization.

"Exact Chemical Structures are UNKNOWN"...only theoretical chemical behaviors can be pondered at this time. But, the physics is there...we need to put it together

Furthermore...
Certain frequencies of light push the atom to higher energy levels...also, there's a neat phenomena called stimulated emission only explained with quantum mechanics. Where if a photon (incident beam) hits an electron, the electron jumps up in energy level, only to fall back down...when the electron falls back down, it releases an identical photon traveling in the same direction. These now 2 photons, (if reaction chamber is built right..."resonant cavity" hehe) will bounce back and do it again...over and over.

The higher energy levels mean that the molecules will interact with the voltage zone in a stronger fashion.

Look up MASER
Maser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hydrogen maser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bussi04]

...
On one of those circuit it shows a 20 ohm high watt resistor in-line with the primary coil. Question, "Do you think that is needed or not?"
...


h2opower.

When finally all is working fine I think that there is no need for the resistor. Then the amp flux will be influenced by analog voltage regulation.

But until we have experience how the VIC behaves in normal operating conditions the resistor can be added for safety issues direct in line to the primary coil. In normal operation it only consumes watts and eats energy.
so there is no need to add that resistor to the pcb.

greetings,
bussi04

[bussi04]

Buzzi04,

That's the schematic from the Stan's patent (without component values) which is different from the schematic earlier in this thread. I don't know where that other schematic came from other than it being posted at waterfuelcell.org. Doesn't matter to me just need a pll circuit that works.

Andy

Hi handyandy,

I hope it helps to compare the functional sections in my published scheme to the original SM functional sections (figures). The whole SM circuit on a single page . And now quite the same functionality on a single pcb.

greetings,
bussi04

[h20power]

Thanks Bussi04,

It looks great to me, can't find anything wrong with them. On one of those circuit it shows a 20 ohm high watt resistor in-line with the primary coil. Question, "Do you think that is needed or not?"

The thing I like about it is at first we can start off at a very low voltage to set everything up so it doesn't burn the Darlington, primary coil, or some FET in the coil driver circuit while the circuit is being fine tuned and/or searching for resonance. Without circuit 4 it would be at full power, and that could blow, and burn things up if it is not in a resonance condition. Or like in one of my circuits when resonance is found the primary is only getting 1.3v and your stuck with that, though it was producing 320v from that. Nope this time we will get it right


h2opower.

[handyandy]

that helps?

Buzzi04,

That's the schematic from the Stan's patent (without component values) which is different from the schematic earlier in this thread. I don't know where that other schematic came from other than it being posted at waterfuelcell.org. Doesn't matter to me just need a pll circuit that works.

Andy

[bussi04]

complete SM original circuit

... think that helps for general overview

greetings,
bussi04

[bussi04]

[h20power]

Thanks Bussi04,

As for the sizes of the parts I always look at the pdf of the parts for the exact sizes they will be, that way I don't get any surprizes. Thanks for all your help and I too will be waiting for the circuit.

I had the same problem with the VIC bobbins and used water to keep them cool, someone gave me that advice and I listened
Once we have a circuit to work from that contols the GP, WFI's, and WFC, we will have something to work together with.

I can help with anyone wanting to convert a carberated internal combustion engine for engine trails. The risk of damage increases but I think it can still be controled for prophane and natrual gas burning cars mix it also in the carberator or somewhere close by and that is an explosive mixture too.

We can work together for a brighter future all to have and share, for that is just the right thing to do, look out for your fellow man. For like it or not if you don't make $500k per year or more you are apart of the don't haves.


h2opower.

[bussi04]

first feedback and bug fixes for pcb

I have assembled my published pcb from http://www.energeticforum.com/72886-post1267.html

[h20power]

Your welcome Cherryman,

As far as I know only the timing has to be changed a bit and add in Stanley Meyer's Gas Processor. Those systems would need Meyer water fuel capacitor system. And this is a site that sells controllers & more for such a transformation: Alternative Fuel CNG Engine Conversion LPG Hydrogen Erdgas. You would have to adapt Meyer's technology to match the needs of their systems, would take some thought but it shouldn't be too hard. You would definitely need to make the quenching tubes and have the WFC take set up to maintain a working pressure above the needs of their system. Everything is there just need to plan it out correctly.

The circuit we are currently working on should adapt very well for that with just a pressure switch in the right place to turn on an off the WFC set to a pressure greater than the needs of their system. One thing that is found in both of Stanley Meyer water fueled cars was the Gas Processor, that is why it is imperative that everyone make such a device for as Meyer went from gaseous to water injection the gas processor remained a vital part of the system.

Like I always say energy independence is now ours for the taking, and like milk does the body good, pass it on


h2opower.

Tnx H20 for explaining it more. I understand only half of it, but i will study it a bit harder.

I think the system basics should not be very complicated giving the time of the invention and the beackground of Meyer. I'm not saying the system can'tbe improved or designed an other way. But the basic working system showing the (working) princeple i think is not very high tech.

As for injectors, as i live in the Netherlands, we have a lot of cars around here driving on natural gas. (Including modern injection engines) I wonder if anyone ever tried hooking up an H system to there natural gas sytem, as the "infrastructure" and some hardware is already in place.

Cherryman

[Cherryman]

Tnx H20 for explaining it more. I understand only half of it, but i will study it a bit harder.

I think the system basics should not be very complicated giving the time of the invention and the beackground of Meyer. I'm not saying the system can'tbe improved or designed an other way. But the basic working system showing the (working) princeple i think is not very high tech.

As for injectors, as i live in the Netherlands, we have a lot of cars around here driving on natural gas. (Including modern injection engines) I wonder if anyone ever tried hooking up an H system to there natural gas sytem, as the "infrastructure" and some hardware is already in place.

Cherryman

[sebosfato]

Its very nice to hear you yet talking about image charges and is so clear and funny for me that all the others understood what is it ... i really hope you can show what you claim