Who performs the first longitudinal Moon-Bounce in history?

[LetsReplicate]

Imho a new theory is interesting if there are new observations to explain, or if it predicts new facts experimentally testable. Unfortunately I don't see what experimental results could be predicted by an aether theory differently from current theories, and I see only conventional observations or erroneous measurements in the experiments where the so-called "longitudinal waves" would be involved.
But I'm not opposed to an aether theory. I even think that the quantum vacuum could be considered as an aether allowing the EM waves to propagate.

Aether does exist! The only reason it was removed from science was due to the Michelson-Morley experiment which was preformed in the wrong rotational plane: Extended Michelson-Morley Interferometer experiment. English version - YouTube. You were saying something about erroneous measurements?

From a mathematical perspective, we can either work "from the bottom up", or "from the top down" as long as we don't mix them. Quantum mechanics is "bottom up"; Aether is "top down". None of the math changes by accepting aether; and even though aether has been rejected as a concept doesn't mean quantum mechanics won't eventually arrive at the same result while calling it something different.

The aether concepts are used to describe things as waves (waves DO need a medium even if we're pretending it doesn't exist) while quantum mechanics calls them particles. Each system has it's advantages and disadvantages. Aether, for example, doesn't have messy "virtual particles" because you can have "suction" (different than the non-existent quantum vacuum). It also more cleanly explains dark matter, and dark energy because THEY ARE THE AETHER (some of the holes lamare hinted about). In fact, I read an interesting concept not too many years ago that explains an alternative to the Big Bang where red shift can be explained by the aether "draining out of the universe" via quarks (or a smaller particle perhaps). The idea all fits with the premise of relativity too while forming an explanation for "why gravity exists". It get's surprisingly hard to refute the idea because comes down to data interpretation.

The question regarding longitudinal waves is: is aether a "solid" (more like a gelatin), or a "liquid". A longitudinal wave can only move though a solid. If aether is purely a liquid then longitudinal waves don't exist. I'm highly interested in seeing replicateable experimental results on this subject because hard proof would completely redeem aether theory in science.

[exnihiloest]

In a way, you are right that I am assuming the existence of waves that have not been demonstrated, at least not publicly. However, there are 4 independent measurements of waves propagating at a speed of more than 1.5 times the speed of transverse waves trough the same medium:

1. Wheatstone ( Charles Wheatstone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
2. Nikola Tesla ( Tuks DrippingPedia : Tesla No High Speed Limit )
3. Dollard ( Transverse & Longitudinal Electric Waves - Eric Dollard And Thomas Joseph Brown on Vimeo )
4. Meyl ( http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...s-maxwell.html )

I have not seen the paper from Meyl about a speed measurement but I can't trust him because he is not skilled: I studied Meyl's work, his LC coupled circuits are conventional, they work perfectly according to Maxwell equations, there is nothing new. He imagines a new theory for no new facts.

The vimeo link doesn't work, so I don't know about this measurement.

Tesla was a great inventor but not a physicist. He failed when he tried to transmit energy at a distance and this failure is the consequence of a theoretical misconception of the transversal waves. He was wrong against Maxwell.

I have myself experimented the "longitudinal" waves. I have transmitted a 2 Khz signal up to 50 meters, using a big LC circuit with a terminal capacitor powered by a 1 KV signal. What I have observed is nothing else than an electric field, not a wave. There are always confusions between "wave" and "varying field". Each time I read papers about "longitudinal waves" I see that each experiment is perfectly explainable by near field conditions. The only exception was Turtur's experiment at around 430 Mhz but he didn't seriously eliminate the case of classical EM waves which is the likely cause of his observations.

I was also interested in the speed of the near field (for me the near field is what you call "longitudinal wave"). I came across several papers from physicists of the academia, about observed speeds > c for signal transmissions in near field conditions, especially when they study tunnel effects and evanescent waves.
Nevertheless they have been dismissed. It is almost impossible to measure the wave speed in near field:
Firstly we can't know what is the front of the wave: we would have to modulate the wave by a pulse or a square signal, but in this case, the spectrum is spread, so we have no more the near field condition during the rise time of the wave, EM waves are radiated.
Secundly if we want measure the phase delay to deduce the wave speed, there are two sources of errors. The frequencies must be low to avoid EM waves, but when the frequency is low, the phase delay is so small in comparisson with the signal period that the slope of the signal is by many orders not enough rapidly rising to accurately trigger a clock. Another cause of error is to use a LC circuit at the position of the receiver. As it is coupled with the transmitter, it presents a reactive charge for the transmitter that shifts the phase.

All these problems are completely understandable from a more general and theoretical viewpoint. A wave is localised neither in space nor in time so for an accurate speed measurement we would need distances of many wave lengths (not possible in near field due to 1/r^3 fading) or time "tags" of the wave much shorter than its period (not possible otherwise the spectrum is spread, high frequencies are generated). That is why all the speed measurements > c that I saw until now are mistaken.

...
So, based on quite a lot of research I have concluded that the aether theory is vastly superior to the current theories, because it can do without all that made-up rubbish to fill the holes.

And when your conclusion is that there is a real aether with fluid-like properties, then you also have to conclude that longitudinal dielectric waves do exist.

So, the aim of this project is to experimentally test the validity of the aether theory with regards to these phenomena.

So, if you call this a biased attitude, you are totally right.
...

Sorry for the "biased attitude". If your attitude is to prove experimentally that your ideas are correct, I agree 100% with your method, it is the only one possible to demonstrate a new theory.

Imho a new theory is interesting if there are new observations to explain, or if it predicts new facts experimentally testable. Unfortunately I don't see what experimental results could be predicted by an aether theory differently from current theories, and I see only conventional observations or erroneous measurements in the experiments where the so-called "longitudinal waves" would be involved.
But I'm not opposed to an aether theory. I even think that the quantum vacuum could be considered as an aether allowing the EM waves to propagate.

[lamare]

The question of "longitudinal waves" transmission to the moon, i.e. assuming a priori the existence of waves that have never been demonstrated even at short distance, or denying that they are the result of conventional phenomena, is clearly outside of any science and the result of a biased attitude.

In a way, you are right that I am assuming the existence of waves that have not been demonstrated, at least not publicly. However, there are 4 independent measurements of waves propagating at a speed of more than 1.5 times the speed of transverse waves trough the same medium:

1. Wheatstone ( Charles Wheatstone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
2. Nikola Tesla ( Tuks DrippingPedia : Tesla No High Speed Limit )
3. Dollard ( Transverse & Longitudinal Electric Waves - Eric Dollard And Thomas Joseph Brown on Vimeo )
4. Meyl ( http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...s-maxwell.html )

Further, I have found that cause and effect have been mixed up in the formulation of the Maxwell equations, which eventually lead to the erroneous Einstein relativity theory, as I have written here:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Ruins 96 Years Einstein Relativity

In my article you will find some very interesting references, which make clear that there are quite a lot of problems with Einsteins relativity theory that do not match with practical experiments. In general, the current theory is full of holes that have been filled up with all kinds of made up forces and particles like "strong and weak interactions", "dark matter" and "virtual photons", while with aether theory you can do without those postulates and come to a unified theory pretty straigtforward, as Paul Stowe has done:

Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Personal E Mail

I have determined that in my opinion all of physical processes can be defined in terms of the aether populational momenta (p). Such that,

Force (F) -> Grad p
Charge (q) -> Div p
Magnetism (B) -> Curl p

Gravity for example is Grad E where E is the electric potential at x. This resolves to Le Sagian type process as outlined in the Pushing Gravity models. The electric potential E in turn is created by charge which is Div p...

My model is a direct extension of Maxwell's vortex model of interacting rings (the smoke ring model). I have been able to define all fundamental constants in terms of basic parameters, including the gravitational constant G. Further, G is, within this system, seamlessly integrated to all others, fitting into a unified system.

So, based on quite a lot of research I have concluded that the aether theory is vastly superior to the current theories, because it can do without all that made-up rubbish to fill the holes.

And when your conclusion is that there is a real aether with fluid-like properties, then you also have to conclude that longitudinal dielectric waves do exist.

So, the aim of this project is to experimentally test the validity of the aether theory with regards to these phenomena.

So, if you call this a biased attitude, you are totally right. However, if you state that this is outside science, you are talking nonsense. I mean, what could be more scientific than to test the theory you believe to be correct by performing an experiment in order to validate it?

And the reason to do this by means of a moon-bounce is exactly because if the experiment succeeds and we can measure a return time 1.5 times faster than c, there is no way to explain that with any conventional phenomena and there is also no way to maintain that longitudinal waves cannot travel trough outer space.

[exnihiloest]

>>>>As so-called longitudinal waves havenot even been demonstrated at some hundred meters distances, imho it is a waste of time to expect for moon-bounce signals and wishful thinking just for fun.<<<<<
...
While everyone is entitled to their opinion, and even if you are correct; most new technology has been dicovered while looking for something else.
...

Science is not a matter of "opinion" otherwise we would vote to elect the theory that would be true. But you are right, new technology has been dicovered while looking for something else. And "something else" is often observation of anomalous results that experimenters were not expecting for.
As Pasteur observed: “Chance favors the prepared mind”. A "prepared mind" is not only an open mind but also a skilled mind able to distinguish between "anomalous results" and "misinterpreted conventional results".

You can reply to this if you wish, but; I can assure you that it will be a "supreme waste of your time".

Orion

The question of "longitudinal waves" transmission to the moon, i.e. assuming a priori the existence of waves that have never been demonstrated even at short distance, or denying that they are the result of conventional phenomena, is clearly outside of any science and the result of a biased attitude.

My reply would be a "supreme waste of your time" if here there were no open minds able to hear alternative propositions. I can't believe it.

[lamare]

Eric can read the forum now so I'm sure he will see any reply from you

Good to read that you are using a computer now, Eric.


From what I understood so far, you have some principal objections against using a computer, having to do with what the big corporations are/have been trying to accomplish.

You are definately not the only one that has a problem with the policies that are/were being used by the powers that were that definately count as N.F.G.

However, they already lost the war, because free software (with free as in "free speech") has prevented the corporate take-over of the internet and our computers, because it is simply more efficient to work together on common goals as it is to compete with one another, and a whole crowd of open source engineers has actively engaged the big corporations by sharing their work for free and fighting against software patents, for example. I have personally been involved with that, btw:
Dutch Parliament Considers Revoking Support for Patent Directive

http://www.tuks.nl/docs/NoLobbyistsAsSuch.pdf

So, to make a long story short: there is an alternative to the corporate crap known as MS Windows: open source software, with several Linux distributions that are totally free, both in terms as in "free beer" as in "free speech".

So, may be you are ready to consider having a computer running software that is made by volunteers for everyone to use. One of the most simple Linux versions to use is Ubuntu, but that does include some non-free stuff in order to be able to display video's, etc. that use patented technology.

However, the totally community-built Debian distribution has the option of installing only software that is 100% free. See their social contract:
Debian Social Contract

"Social Contract" with the Free Software Community

Debian will remain 100% free

We provide the guidelines that we use to determine if a work is "free" in the document entitled "The Debian Free Software Guidelines". We promise that the Debian system and all its components will be free according to these guidelines. We will support people who create or use both free and non-free works on Debian. We will never make the system require the use of a non-free component.
We will give back to the free software community

When we write new components of the Debian system, we will license them in a manner consistent with the Debian Free Software Guidelines. We will make the best system we can, so that free works will be widely distributed and used. We will communicate things such as bug fixes, improvements and user requests to the "upstream" authors of works included in our system.
We will not hide problems

We will keep our entire bug report database open for public view at all times. Reports that people file online will promptly become visible to others.
Our priorities are our users and free software

We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. We will place their interests first in our priorities. We will support the needs of our users for operation in many different kinds of computing environments. We will not object to non-free works that are intended to be used on Debian systems, or attempt to charge a fee to people who create or use such works. We will allow others to create distributions containing both the Debian system and other works, without any fee from us. In furtherance of these goals, we will provide an integrated system of high-quality materials with no legal restrictions that would prevent such uses of the system.
Works that do not meet our free software standards

We acknowledge that some of our users require the use of works that do not conform to the Debian Free Software Guidelines. We have created "contrib" and "non-free" areas in our archive for these works. The packages in these areas are not part of the Debian system, although they have been configured for use with Debian. We encourage CD manufacturers to read the licenses of the packages in these areas and determine if they can distribute the packages on their CDs. Thus, although non-free works are not a part of Debian, we support their use and provide infrastructure for non-free packages (such as our bug tracking system and mailing lists).

Of course, this is just a suggestion that may help, so you at least have the option of using a computer without having to feed the corporations that are out to take our freedoms away.

[lamare]

For "Can" antennas if you want what is known as a Transverse Magnetic, TM waveguide mode. Here the dielectric is longitudinal along direction of propagation. See "Radio Engineer Handbook", Terman, and "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" I.T.T. published. Here your waveguide modes are presented. One in particular is very interesting as its lossed decrease with frequency but it is very hard to excite this mode. Check this out as it is directly regulated to your efforts in "moonbounce". Show modes on forum for others to see!

Also a "Tao" has his own great representation of the "Four Quadrant" "Eight Pole" representation on forum.

73 DE N6KPH SK

Will check if I can find those books. From what I was able to find out, all normally considered transverse waveguide modes require a diameter of 0.59 λ transverse or more, depending on the mode you want:

Yesterday, I studied some information on wave guides and I found out that the transverse wave propagation modes trough a hollow tube are only possible with a minimum diameter of 0.59 λ:

http://www.w1ghz.org/QEX/circular_wg.pdf

<snip>

As I wrote above, the minimal diameter for transverse use is about 0.59 λ. And since we don't want any transversal junk in our longitudinal antenna, it is clear that this limit is our maximum diameter! However, this is expressed in terms of the transverse wavelength, so in terms of longitudinal wavelenghts the diameter of the tube should be maximal 0.59/1.56 = 0.38 λ (note that in the drawing I took the "popular" 0.67/1.56 = 0.43 λ as maximum, which should be 0.59 λ transverse). For 1296 Mhz, this works out to a maximum diameter of about 12.5 cm.

So, any diameter smaller than that and NO TRANSVERSE WAVES!

By moving the feed 1/4 whip to the bottom of the waveguide and load it with a small dish, you excite it in the correct direction. It is just like driving an acousting 3/4 lambda open resonator pipe with a loudspeaker positioned at 1/4 lambda from the bottom.



The only thing I'm not too sure about is whether or not the "L + 0.6D" analogy with acoustics is valid here too. I'm not too sure you can see a thin metal as being very stiff in the LDM case, because it is much thinner than a wavelength. So, thinking about the "skin effect" suggests you can almost certainly not consider your walls to be stiff, which may turn out to ruin the party. OTOH: if that were true, that should also be the case in transverse waveguides, which appear to work very good regardless.



Update: got them:
Radio-Engineers-Handbook-1943-Terman.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download

http://www.pmillett.com/tubebooks/Books/FTR_ref_data.pdf

[lamare]

Hi lamare,
I spoke with Eric today and he wanted me to send the following transmission to you regarding your moonbounce project. He thinks the moon bounce will be difficult (due to it not having been done before), and thinks it would be easier to take an already engineered approach such as sending a longitudinal signal through the Earth:
Any competent engineer should be able replicate the transmission of longitudinal waves through the ground. Moon bounce gives the most definite results, but there's no existing engineering information available regarding how to do it. The 160 HAM band coils are shown in the longitudinal wave Borderland videos- flat spirals. The construction techniques are shown. The Theory of Wireless Power has calculations for the solenoid coil. All you have to do is connect the neutral side of the coil with the ground system and excite the coil - with HAM rig. Eric already did this on 40 meters between Bolinas and Los Angeles. Picture a loaded vertical antenna, coil at the bottom, tower in the air, shorten the antenna, make the coil bigger, keep going to the limit, hence a resonant coil, and no antenna. In this condition the ground current will be maximum. Hereby is effected longitudinal transmission into the ground. Ground Requirements:
Need a really good ground - 120 wires in the ground in a 50 to 100 foot square. It's that simple, not that complicated. One coil transmits to the other through the ground, longitudinally with no antenna.

Eric can read the forum now so I'm sure he will see any reply from you

Thank you for relaying this information here.

To me, that is quite an operation to perform. I don't have much time to build things and I am not too good at actually building things.

I have found some interesting info on Tesla's system. First of all, there's a pdf with some rare notes by Tesla himself:

http://www.capturedlightning.com/temp/Rare_Notes.pdf

I started OCR'ing this pdf, which is not yet finished:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Tesla Rare Notes On Wardenclyffe

And I found an interesting drawing, which shows the whole tower, including the subground system:

http://www.tuks.nl/img/Anderson%20Drawing.jpg

More on these tunnels here: Wardenclyffe Tunnels Investigation

And some guy made a very nice 3D model of the tower, based a.o. on this Anderson drawing:
Free : Tesla Magnifying Transmitter, AKA Wardenclyffe Tower. A Technological Work of Art.
Tesla Wardenclyffe Magnifying Transmitter Tower Walkthrough 3d Animation by Leo Blanchette - YouTube


All right. Now let's draw in the discussion over at the other thread:

The T.E.M. wave is always along the axis of the metallic geometry, tangent to the metallic boundary. Such is given by the “Co-axial Cable”. Conversely, the L.M.D. wave is always perpendicular to the axis of the metallic geometry, normal to the metallic boundary. Such is given by the “Transformer Winding”. The resulting complex propagation of v and u is a spiral with a tilt angle from the metallic axes of the coiled winding. Where T.E.M. waves drag into the metallic (electron flow) the L.M.D. wave bypasses the metallic (no electron flow) hence no Ohmic resistance. The factor pi over two is the composite propagation for only a unique set of parameters. See “The Oscillating Coil” part of the “Theory of Wireless Power” E.P. Dollard. Note here that errors found a way into the tables, but the equations are right. Now why could not the Corum’s figure this out? Why is it they make no reference to any work on this by Blume, Bewely, Dollard, and etc? The Corums, Well?

This may be true when you are talking about ideal metallic surfaces, but in practice you have to deal with the skin effect:
Some Skin Effect Notes

The skin depth is essentially the wave length in the metal. The main thing to notice are that the free space wave length is enormously larger than the skin depth.

Here I posted some things about Schumann resonance in ideal metalic spheres:

I finally found some formula that describe surface resonances occuring on an ideal sphere. We all know them. Schumann resonances:
Schumann resonances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, I entered this formula in my spreadsheet:

http://www.tuks.nl/Spice/Lamare_dipole_calc.xls

Turns out that when I calculate with a velocity factor of 0,91, the formula for the small sphere *exactly* matches the Schuman resonance mode 2 for a frequency of 1286 MHz (which rolls out independent of the chosen velocity factor because the radius of the small sphere depends on the velocity factor, btw), while I am designing the antenna for 1296 MHz.

Based on this, I figured both resonances had to match, so I thought I could theoretically derive the propagation speed of longitudinal waves with this:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/9727-who-performs-first-longitudinal-moon-bounce-history-3.html#post168233

Well, that was a mistake. BUT, the coupling of transverse surface waves with longitudinal waves trough the interior of a non-ideal sphere at the ground resonance frequencies is real as far as I can tell, and certainly if we are dealing with a hollow sphere.

In other words: in practical metals, you can have longitudinal waves going trough the interior of a practical metal sphere, which is consistent with what Eric said.

Now back to Tesla, as I posted here:

<snip>

You can also read Tesla's statement here, which was written in 1906:
The Tesla Magnifying Transmitter

Stated otherwise, the terrestrial conductor is thrown into resonance with the oscillations impressed upon it just like a wire. More than this, a number of facts ascertained by me clearly show, that the movement of electricity through it follows certain laws with nearly mathematical rigor. For the present it will be sufficient to state, that the earth behaves like a perfectly smooth or polished conductor of inappreciable resistance, with capacity and self-induction uniformly distributed along the axis of symmetry of waves propagation and transmitting slow electrical oscillations without sensible distortion and attenuation. Besides the above, three requirements seem to be essential to the establishment of the resonating condition.

1. The earth's diameter passing through the pole should be an odd multiple of the quarter wave-length, that is, of the ratio between the velocity of light and four times the frequency of the currents.

2. It is necessary to employ oscillations, in which the rate of radiation of energy into space in the form of Hertzians or electromagnetic waves is very small. To give an idea I would say, that the frequency should be smaller than twenty thousand per second, through shorter waves might be practicable. The lowest frequency would appear to be six per second, in which case there will be but one node, at or near the ground plate, and, paradoxical as it may seem, the opposite the transmitter. With oscillations still slower the earth, strictly speaking, will not resonate, but simply act as capacity, and the variation of potential will be more or less uniform over its entire surface.

3. The most essential requirement is, however, that irrespective of frequency, the wave or wave train should continue for a certain interval of time, which I have estimated to be not less than one twelfth-or probably 0.08484-of a second, and which is taken in passing to, and returning from the region diametrically opposite the pole, over the earth's surface, with a mean velocity of about 471,240 kilometers per second......"

Note that he estimates a velocity of 471,240 kilometers per second for the surface waves he was using. And this tells us exactly what kind of waves he was using: longitudinal surface waves, which can likely also be described with the formula for Schumann resonances, as I posted earlier for the transverse case:

<snip>

All right. Let's first take a look at all the possible resonances in a sphere like the Earth. There are two kinds of waves: longitudinal and transverse. And there are two ways by which these can propagate trough a hollow sphere: trough the interior and along the surface. So, we got ourselves 4 distinct resonance modes a hollow or non-perfect conducting sphere can support. And you have to keep these properly apart when you want to study or describe these kind of phenomena.

Now that we understand Schumann's formula, it is clear that Tesla's TMT can only work when there are a whole number of longitudinal wavelengths across the surface of the Earth, because otherwise you will not get resonance since the surface of the earth is kind of a closed loop, just like a loop antenna.

Now if you want to use a wire (or coil) in the place of the Earth and you want to mimic Tesla's TMT, you do want to make sure that you take your wire a whole number times 1/2 longitudinal wavelength for your chosen frequency. You can take 1/2 lambda with a wire, because as far as I can tell it doesn't matter wheter or not transmitter and receiver are in phase when they are not radiating into space and you want to make sure you have longitudinal waves along your resonating wire, because a transverse resonating wire radiates like a properly designed antenna. Not a good idea...

So, when we are talking about transmitting waves trough the Earth, I sincerely doubt these are longitudinal by definition.

As far as I can tell, you can emit both transverse as well as longitudinal surface waves from basically "an antenna burried upside down in the ground". I don't think it is stated explicitly in the rare Tesla notes posted above, but I do think Tesla designed his subground system to be resonating in a longitudinal resonance mode.

Interesting detail is that he burried a disc-like structure at the bottom of his "antenna", which is exactly what I intend to put on top of my transmitter antenna in my longitudinal cantenna design, which is essentially a 3/4 lambda open pipe resonator with a diameter such that it cannot act as a transverse wave guide, BUT should be perfect as a longitudinal waveguide. And this thing is then fed by a 1/4 lambda whip, loaded on top with a small dish, like a 2 cents copper Euro coin.

So, I'm not going to continue with my spherical design. First of all, it is difficult to make, and secondly it radiates in all direction, so there is no way I'm going to get permission to mount that in the 25 meter dish we have at our disposal, basically in my back yard (less than 2 hours drive).

[jpolakow]

Note to Lamare

Note to Lamare from Eric Dollard-

Glad you like my complex algebra paper. The "square root of minus one" was taken away from the parrot here!

Philo Farnsworth started me on that project in 1980. He stated that I should develop a Steinmetz type of Versor (AC) operator adapted to hyperbolic rather than circular functions, hence a versor (I.C.) operator. Philo stated this as the "Holy Grail" of "Theoretical Electrical Engineering". He then started it off by giving me a book "Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communication", Perine.

It took me 8 years until I finished "Symbolic Representation of the Generalized Electric Wave". However note that the space versor part is not there , it is at the end of "Theory of Wireless Power". Fortunately The Dumpsters or Olin Bales of SwinePlanet did not get these. They were 8 years of hard work every day on my part.

The entire working Telluric system WAS working at Landers. There WAS your velocity greater than c. It was based upon a navy situation of transmitting direct to deep submerged submarines through water, and through the metal hull of the sub.

Anyway the Mojave Research Facility at 57474 Linn Road Landers, is in the hands of criminals. Our Navy is N.F.G. now.

Steinmetz sphere equations in the "Transient Phenomena" book may be of use. The 1920 edition has the right equations. I think your sphere should be driven by a self resonant coil, cut short to resonate with sphere capacity. Sphere capacity equal to coil self capacity is maximum sphere capacity allowed. Use my formula in "Theory of Wireless Power". No guesswork here, just basic high school math. Forget the physics of gobble-gook. For "Can" antennas if you want what is known as a Transverse Magnetic, TM waveguide mode. Here the dielectric is longitudinal along direction of propagation. See "Radio Engineer Handbook", Terman, and "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" I.T.T. published. Here your waveguide modes are presented. One in particular is very interesting as its lossed decrease with frequency but it is very hard to excite this mode. Check this out as it is directly regulated to your efforts in "moonbounce". Show modes on forum for others to see!

Also a "Tao" has his own great representation of the "Four Quadrant" "Eight Pole" representation on forum.

73 DE N6KPH SK

[OrionLightShip]

I heard that power transmission of 1kW and much more was proved via single wire by Avramenko. It looks viable for me. I agree that in near field the same effects can be made with normal EM transmitter but OU is very hard due to radiation in far field region. But I'm not expert...

As I said in another thread, in reference to Dollard's video showing transmission down onto the beach; I don't know that he wasn't just transmitting through the light bulb and ground plane.

The only way to prove it is through time/velocity measurement showing superluminal transmission. If that can be proven, who cares if it is through the earth or the air! No overunity required, just a waveform thought to be non-existent. I believe in magick (technology and innovation) so I remain optimistically skeptical.

I applaud Lamare's thoughts and efforts what ever may come.

Orion

[boguslaw]

I heard that power transmission of 1kW and much more was proved via single wire by Avramenko. It looks viable for me. I agree that in near field the same effects can be made with normal EM transmitter but OU is very hard due to radiation in far field region. But I'm not expert...

[OrionLightShip]

>>>>As so-called longitudinal waves havenot even been demonstrated at some hundred meters distances, imho it is a waste of time to expect for moon-bounce signals and wishful thinking just for fun.<<<<<


Your login name speaks volumes. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, and even if you are correct; most new technology has been dicovered while looking for something else. To state that any free research is a waste of ones time is a display of ignorance of the past.

You might as well sifay it is a waste of time to get out of bed each day through the logic that you will only have to return to bed.

"geniuses" (sp?) have been overlooking the magic laying in front of them since the beginning of time, just as historians have been rewriting history with each stroke of their subjective pens.

The fun and magic lie in the search. Sometimes, the truth will make itself known.

Good luck with the lifepath you have chosen.

You can reply to this if you wish, but; I can assure you that it will be a "supreme waste of your time".

Orion

[exnihiloest]

All experiments pretending to show longitudinal waves are perfectly explained by the coupling of resonant circuits in near field. Maxwell's electrodynamics perfectly modelizes this kind of situation which is called the "quasi-stationary approximation" (the involved dimensions of circuits and distances between them are short in comparison with the signal wavelength). In near field, the source doesn't radiate, the electric or magnetic field expands from the source and contracts at each period of the signal, the energy going back and forth between the field and the circuit(s) but doesn't propagate by itself.
I saw only Monstein who provided an experiment at a much longer distance than the wavelength. I have a long experience as radio-amateur, and I can say that a conventional electromagnetic wave reflecting on the ground could very well explain Monstein's observations. The evidence he pretends to give with his polarization filter is far from being able to discard an EM wave.
As so-called longitudinal waves have not even been demonstrated at some hundred meters distances, imho it is a waste of time to expect for moon-bounce signals and wishful thinking just for fun.

[LetsReplicate]

Near field vortex?!?!

As I was reading this thread (specifically the supposed document from Tesla) and I got to thinking about intentionally producing longitudinal interference. Now I have never personally witnessed a longitudinal-only wave (only seen them claimed to be on video), but I did read a paper by an MIT engineer that described the Hutchison effect.

The Hutchison effect is caused by two longitudinal transmitters which are having their phase angle "rotated" at high frequency. It seems to me that would cause a "1 dimensional" vortex in the ether at the center field between the transmitters. To add a second dimension to this (and possibly create ball lightning if enough energy is added into it), all you would need to do is add a third transmitter to create a triangle: then use a "circular" phase angle. That would allow you to rotate an "infinitely small" high voltage point (in the area where the wave compresses to a point) along a 2 dimensional plane which should cause the ether itself to begin rotating with it (form a current because the "forward<->backward" motion of the longitudinal wave is a current instead of a magnetic field). Add enough current to the ether and it should start to act like a magnetic bottle allowing you to put as much energy as you want inside. Using a forth Tesla coil above or below the plane (or possibly a specific phase angle signal?), you could then "launch" the vortex upward. I have NO idea how you'd be able to know it it left the earth's atmosphere though.

Just an idea of course, mostly thinking out loud, I'm aware Hutchison was working with in the THF band when he was messing with matter (or at least the phase variance was in the THF band, but I don't know what his main frequency was off-hand).

Assuming the Tesla document wasn't a forgery, would there be any chance that is right!?!?!?!? I welcome dissenting opinions.

[jpolakow]

Hi Lamare,
Eric wanted you to see these pages out of Steinmetz's book "Transient Electrical Phenomena and Oscillations". Pg 400:

[jpolakow]

Tesla transmission through the earth

Hi lamare,
I spoke with Eric today and he wanted me to send the following transmission to you regarding your moonbounce project. He thinks the moon bounce will be difficult (due to it not having been done before), and thinks it would be easier to take an already engineered approach such as sending a longitudinal signal through the Earth:
Any competent engineer should be able replicate the transmission of longitudinal waves through the ground. Moon bounce gives the most definite results, but there's no existing engineering information available regarding how to do it. The 160 HAM band coils are shown in the longitudinal wave Borderland videos- flat spirals. The construction techniques are shown. The Theory of Wireless Power has calculations for the solenoid coil. All you have to do is connect the neutral side of the coil with the ground system and excite the coil - with HAM rig. Eric already did this on 40 meters between Bolinas and Los Angeles. Picture a loaded vertical antenna, coil at the bottom, tower in the air, shorten the antenna, make the coil bigger, keep going to the limit, hence a resonant coil, and no antenna. In this condition the ground current will be maximum. Hereby is effected longitudinal transmission into the ground. Ground Requirements:
Need a really good ground - 120 wires in the ground in a 50 to 100 foot square. It's that simple, not that complicated. One coil transmits to the other through the ground, longitudinally with no antenna.

Eric can read the forum now so I'm sure he will see any reply from you