Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[Slovenia]

Branislav Illness Update

Branislav is still in hospital. He is showing some improvement as the bleeding in the intestine has stopped for now. Bleeding had stopped in the past also and then started again. Anyway, the doctors are trying to assess his situation and make sure he is okay before releasing him from hospital. If the bleeding doesn't start again, he'll be released from the hospital to return home in four or five days.

[Cherryman]

Drawings.

Slovenia,

If it could help I will be able and willing to make an accurate complete 3D drawing of the setup. It would need someone of you to describe and take measurements, then I can draw it to the millimeter, or less.

Just let me know.


Peace and Health

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks Cherryman for your offer. I'll keep that in mind. Many things about the IKEA setup we don't know yet. Thanks!!

Slovenia,

If it could help I will be able and willing to make an accurate complete 3D drawing of the setup. It would need someone of you to describe and take measurements, then I can draw it to the millimeter, or less.

Just let me know.


Peace and Health

[evolvingape]

Some initial thoughts

Hi everyone,

I have not had a chance to read through everything in this thread yet, but I have had some early thoughts so see if any of this information helps you.

How to tune a tube without sanding caught my eye so I went investigating, here is a video of a little girl making a xylophone. At the end of the video you can hear the notes played and how they change in frequency depending on the length of the tube.

Homemade Xylophone - Kids - YouTube

Then I did some reading on harmonic resonance:

The Physics Classroom Topics

Everything on that site is worth a read through but in particular the section on sound waves and music:

Sound Waves and Music - Table of Contents

And in that section particular pages of note are:

Standing Wave Patterns

Scroll to the bottom and you can watch a video of a guy with a voice coil diaphragm (speaker) connected to a spring. When he changes the frequency you can see the nodes and anti-nodes change position, so this shows the importance of where you clamp your device to avoid dampening the harmonics.

Then on the page about resonance:

Resonance

We see a diagram of a tuning fork forcing an air column into resonance, and in particular this paragraph:

“The word resonance comes from Latin and means to "resound" - to sound out together with a loud sound. Resonance is a common cause of sound production in musical instruments. One of our best models of resonance in a musical instrument is a resonance tube (a hollow cylindrical tube) partially filled with water and forced into vibration by a tuning fork. The tuning fork is the object that forced the air inside of the resonance tube into resonance. As the tines of the tuning fork vibrate at their own natural frequency, they created sound waves that impinge upon the opening of the resonance tube. These impinging sound waves produced by the tuning fork force air inside of the resonance tube to vibrate at the same frequency. Yet, in the absence of resonance, the sound of these vibrations is not loud enough to discern. Resonance only occurs when the first object is vibrating at the natural frequency of the second object. So if the frequency at which the tuning fork vibrates is not identical to one of the natural frequencies of the air column inside the resonance tube, resonance will not occur and the two objects will not sound out together with a loud sound. But the location of the water level can be altered by raising and lowering a reservoir of water, thus decreasing or increasing the length of the air column. As we have learned earlier, an increase in the length of a vibrational system (here, the air in the tube) increases the wavelength and decreases the natural frequency of that system. Conversely, a decrease in the length of a vibrational system decreases the wavelength and increases the natural frequency. So by raising and lowering the water level, the natural frequency of the air in the tube could be matched to the frequency at which the tuning fork vibrates. When the match is achieved, the tuning fork forces the air column inside of the resonance tube to vibrate at its own natural frequency and resonance is achieved. The result of resonance is always a big vibration - that is, a loud sound.”

So I realised that we could potentially adjust the frequency of the tube by adjusting the volume of the air column inside it.

Then, I was wondering about how to use this knowledge and came across this:

The Flame Tube — DIY How-to from Make: Projects

This guy has used a rubber balloon to enclose a tube at both ends and created an oscillating diaphragm driven by a speaker. The flame is then stimulated into sine wave peaks and troughs along the length of the tube when he plays music through the speaker.

So with all this information I put together the prototype in the attached picture. As you can see the the air trapped inside the central tube should act as a spring and transmit the sound waves through the water. Should you get both the tube and container into resonance with each other it is possible that the water will heat. A simple free tone generator downloaded from the internet, and run from the audio port on your computer, will allow you to produce tones at the desired frequency and then you can adjust the frequency of the tube to match by raising or lowering the vertical height of the central tube.

The reason I am looking at pure sound instead of electrical resonance is because I have initial concerns about Hydrogen being produced. Should you attempt to restrict the steam produced in a boiler, there is a possibility that the boiler will explode if there is even a small amount of Hydrogen present. So until it is proven that absolutely no Hydrogen is being produced by electrolysis then it would be mighty unwise to attempt to harness the pressure potential of the steam in a boiler...

However, this does not mean that you cannot harness the steam pressure, what it does mean is that you must use a secondary heat exchanger to heat a separate water system and only harness the steam from that second system in a pressure boiler. This system could be as simple as two stainless pipes, one bigger than the other, sleeved around each other with room for the water to flow.

If AC or DC is being used to generate the effect then I would advise leaving the heating container exposed to air to allow evaporation, and no chance of a dangerous explosion.

Let me know what you all think, and I apologise if this information is way off what you need or are interested in. I will not be able to prototype this myself until after Christmas but I am going to give it a go soon as I can.

Rob

[RAMSET]

Wow

Rob
I'm getting ready to head home

But as usual For way to short a time

Any Hoo
Thanks for all that info ,I'll be studying up tonight!!

Chet
PS
Slovenia
Thanks For the good news on Branislav.

[PhysicsProf]

Welcome to the discussion, Rob.
Today I received an email from Professor Savic, and I think many of you will be interested in his question and my reply:
_______________

Dear Professor Savic,


I wish we spoke a common language! but as you say, we now have the computer translators that can help us.

You asked,

"I would like to ask you how it works and where sonic boiler "excess" energy."

I would like to know how the sonic boiler works also! I do not now have access to a working (COP >1) sonic boiler, but if I did -- I would do experiments and tests in order to determine:

1. SAFETY of the device,
and
2. HOW it works.

We may learn a lot about "how" the device works as we test for safety, which should be done immediately for the safety of researchers around the world.

It is crucially important IMO to know what emissions are coming from a device. (IMO means "in my opinion.") I would quickly test for emissions of gammas, X-rays, microwave, and down the electromagnetic spectrum to radio waves.

Gammas, X-rays and microwave can be quite dangerous as you know, but shielding is effective. So we should do tests to find out -- right away.
I would also test for acoustic waves outside the device that could have long-term health effects, from ultrasonic to sub-sonic frequencies.

Thirty years ago, I acquired a state-of-the-art NEUTRON detector (based on neutron capture on helium-3) which is now located at my university (where I am emeritus which means "retired with honor"). I would use this detector immediately also, to check for neutron emissions (which may appear if cold fusion or another nuclear reaction is taking place). Alpha and beta emissions would be interesting also, but would not travel far with even water present.

I have access to these test instruments, and I can quietly perform various tests without a problem.

The next research tests would be to determine: What affects the performance as measured by COP?
COP I would measure much as DaemonBart did, by measuring how fast water temperature rises in a certain length of time compared to electrical-power input.

I would place the device in a Faraday cage to exclude all interactions with the electrical grid. It is important to be sure that the device is not acting as a "parasite" getting energy from the electrical grid.

We should do more tests to see how the COP is affected by ANYTHING we can think of --
Do vibrations in the room or of the table on which the device sits affect its performance? As I read about Keely and his devices, I think this is a possibility.
Do we see changes in COP by shielding OUT magnetic fields?

If the effect arises from the Dirac sea or huge geo- or solar magnetic fields, which would be exciting, we need to devise tests to determine this. It is a new area and I do not expect "classical physics" to provide all the answers.. We have to be open to other tests based on what we see, and prepared to pursue anything that affects performance COP.

Best wishes, and hopes for the full recovery of your son,
Steven Jones

[daemonbart]

Safety!

Hi,

many things to discover here!

If running dc under pressure, implosions will happen when temperature rise over 100 deg C, no problem with true ac.

Of course Steve´s tests need to be done asap!

What I think I know so far is that it is possible to control when you want hydrogen or not, depending on mechanical and electrical tuning.

If P.Savic dont have time for the moment to send a testing device, maybe I would be able to do it, still I dont really know if it is the same thing?

My setups tune automatic, atleast I think so, cop always seem to be way over 1.

Kind rgds D

[evolvingape]

Hi Professor,

Thankyou for the warm welcome everyone.

Pleased to hear the little lad is getting better

I thought it would be helpful to all of us if I gave you a sit-rep on where I am with this technology and my thoughts in general on the subject.

My last posting was just a brainstorm really, spent some time researching the subject, clarifying remembered knowledge and checking for accuracy. Then I took known principles and facts from other similar technologies and brought them together in a new way, applied to this project theme here.

The result was the Air Spring Heater. I do not know if it will work yet, or if it has been invented before, but it is going to be fun as my first project of 2012 Hey, Chet, finally something I can build! If each of us did a similar thing and made the heater design they thought might work, we would have a massive data set of unique designs in a short period of time. This works on the principle that “we only gotta find one that works”. You guys been working on this for a while, and getting good results, got a great head start and tips to share!

The mechanical system will be the structure you build, the tubes and tins etc, the energetic system is the resonant frequency you stimulate in some way. The mechanical system is hard to change (sanding metal not fun or precise etc), the energetic system is easy to tune using frequency. So make the two systems match and you will achieve resonance, of that system, and an increase in energy released.

So anyway, back to the sit-rep...

I looked into this subject in depth in a different field, and the result was the Hydro Electro Lytic Turbine ( HELT ). This device was designed with the idea of incorporating both mechanical and energetic systems into the same environment at the same time, this interaction would create a change in state of the working fluid, which was water.

LONG TIME READER GIFTS US With HYDRO-ELECTROLYTIC TURBINE ON DEMAND SYSTEM (plans)

The mechanical system comprises the turbine disc stack mounted on the shaft, inside the housing which is the environment boundary, and the slip rings for electrical connection. Water is the working fluid.

The energetic system comprises the electrical circuit, the disc stack which is acting as an electrolytic resistor, the slip rings, and the water which is the electrolyte.

The mechanical system is a rotating mass, and so when spinning at any given speed must have a resonant frequency, which can be measured. The energetic system is the electricity running through the circuit, whose frequency is a user set variable. Measure the constant frequency of one system, and adjust the variable frequency to match, and you have calibrated the system to be in resonance.

I designed the pulse width modulated slip ring for this application, when both frequencies are known, it synchronises the electrical pulses to the shaft rotation velocity to achieve desired resonant frequency and access to sub-harmonics in a fixed ratio.

Mechanical PWM Timed via Rotary Moment

This should allow you to pulse DC or AC electricity in the energetic system, to match the same frequency as the mechanical rotating mass, and stimulate the water to match frequency with the other two systems. Water is the working fluid in both systems. If the frequency the water moves too is favourable for a reaction, then the water will split, and we got something different to what we had before

Anyway, the whole point of that is that we are all attempting to do the same thing here, achieve resonance with water for energy. Here is a guy who tried before with a similar system to yours:

Andrija Puharich: Water Decomposition by AC Elecrolysis >

Scroll down about a third of the page and the KeelyNet release is there:

KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501
May 6, 1990

Vibrations that Split Molecules Produce Energy

Seawater - or even dirty rainwater - could be transmuted into fuel through a new technique serendipitously discovered by a researcher in medical electronics.

Dr. Andrija Puharich has found a way to split water molecules by tuning in on the vibrations of their atoms and breaking the molecules into hydrogen, which could become fuel, and oxygen.

Alternating-current impulses augment naturally occurring vibrations in the H2O molecules. By boosting the vibrations out of control, Puharich makes the molecules fly apart into the component atoms.

He likens the water-splitting effect to the way soldiers marching in step across a bridge risk damaging the structure by making it vibrate at a critical, stress-producing rate.

Electrolysis by simple direct current would create hydrogen and oxygen with a net energy efficiency of only 54 percent, according to Puharich, a Virginia-based inventor. But he says his alternating-current system reaches better than 90 per cent efficiency.

A former physician, Puharich discovered the water-splitting technique a dozen years ago but has only recently presented his findings publicly.

Originally, he was investigating the DISRUPTIVE EFFECT of electrical resonances on blood clots and noticed a peculiar thing: in dilute blood, a SPECIFIC FREQUENCY made bubbles appear in the liquid.

Lab analysis showed that the bubbles were composed of oxygen and hydrogen.

A barrel-shaped cavity contains the water in Puharich's recentlyrefined system. He introduces alternating current at A KEY FREQUENCY of 600 cycles per second.

The cavity resonates with the impulses in somewhat the same way the body of a violin resonates with the sound of one string, ADDING HIGHER AND LOWER HARMONICS TO THE PRINCIPAL TONE.

In the first part of that, reproduced above, it mentions the device at 600 cycles per second (Hz). That figure may be because his “barrel chamber” frequency, the AC frequency, and the water frequency all summed to a harmonic that caused water to break it's bonds and split, noticeably!

It may bear more fruit to consider the possibility of tuning all 3 systems to resonate with each other, than everyone trying to replicate a particular known working devices specifications. After all, the mechanical part of that system is unique and cannot be exactly replicated.

If we can between us, identify specific frequency's that consistently fall within a range that agitate water, then we would have some basis for fine tuning the mechanics of the system and selecting parts whose natural frequency is in those narrow frequency ranges.

Hope that helps,

Rob

[PhysicsProf]

Hi,

many things to discover here!

If running dc under pressure, implosions will happen when temperature rise over 100 deg C, no problem with true ac.

Of course Steve´s tests need to be done asap!

What I think I know so far is that it is possible to control when you want hydrogen or not, depending on mechanical and electrical tuning.

If P.Savic dont have time for the moment to send a testing device, maybe I would be able to do it, still I dont really know if it is the same thing?

My setups tune automatic, atleast I think so, cop always seem to be way over 1.

Kind rgds D

A wonderful suggestion, DaemonBart, and congratulations on your continued findings.
Perhaps we could work something out -- recalling that if any device is shipped or mailed, IMO should be in TWO pieces to different addresses such that the device would work only when the pieces are connected.

Also, when I say figuring out "HOW it works" above, I mean -- finding out the source of the incoming energy if we possibly can, and assuring the safety of the device. I do NOT mean that I would probe inside it to gain details of the construction. I would NOT do that, unless that was specifically approved by the inventor. I would do the tests outlined, that is what I propose. A full range of tests on a "sealed device" or "black box" is what I'm proposing here.

Let's see what we can work out.

[Slovenia]

Exciting!!

Hi Daemonbart,

It sounds very exciting what you have achieved with your boiler. Self tuning sounds a lot better than sanding too. It's a great device you have.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Hi,

many things to discover here!

If running dc under pressure, implosions will happen when temperature rise over 100 deg C, no problem with true ac.

Of course Steve´s tests need to be done asap!

What I think I know so far is that it is possible to control when you want hydrogen or not, depending on mechanical and electrical tuning.

If P.Savic dont have time for the moment to send a testing device, maybe I would be able to do it, still I dont really know if it is the same thing?

My setups tune automatic, atleast I think so, cop always seem to be way over 1.

Kind rgds D

[RAMSET]

Great opportunity

Mr DB
I am quite happy you are giving this serious consideration!!
I believe this will be a life changing time for you and yours,I would of course love to see The Savic family benefit also!
And Slovenia .

I must say DB you are an exceptional Human being ,You have greatly Impressed me with your Sincerity and Honesty during our Brief Conversations
And I absolutely Believe you have a gift of perception and understanding When it Comes to these types of things!
I know you men will do the right thing!!
God speed..........

Your Friend
Chet
PS
Rob You are a monster of Info and insight .... The talent here is amazing!!

This kind of stuff can change the world!!

I believe!!

[MonsieurM]

posted it a while back in a discussion with Shawn...see the design resemblance:

Peter Markovich: Apparatus To Rectify Ether Energy (ATREE)

In 1899, Nikola Tesla discovered the principle that now serves as the basis for the receiver unit that was first tested by peter Markovich in August of 1977. At this point, let us briefly review what was discovered by Dr. Tesla in July of 1899. If we look at US Patent # 725,605 entitled "System of Signaling", we will find diagrams that described the Tesla system. This system was based on what Dr. Tesla called a wave phenomenon that was not electromagnetic in nature. This wave was able to produce useable electrical energy that was taken from the Earth's atmosphere. This wave as described by Tesla and partially proven by Markovich had a number of unique characteristics. First, the wave train was stationary with a length of about 185,000 miles and a width of about 200 miles. Secondly, it had a frequency of 925 cycles per second. Finally, the wave's speed was equal to or greater than the speed of light.

posted here # 154: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...gnetism-6.html



ps: Welcome to our friend evolvingape , thank you for joining our Merry Band of Freedom Seekers

[wrtner]

Slovenia,

If it could help I will be able and willing to make an accurate
complete 3D drawing of the setup.

I think this would be very helpful, particularly for new people
coming to this discussion.

Paul-R

[MonsieurM]

Cherryman, would it possible for you to do a 3d rendering of the following device( if it is not too much of a hassle )....read the doc first though to have a feel of what the purpose of the invention is

posted it a while back in a discussion with Shawn...see the design resemblance:

Peter Markovich: Apparatus To Rectify Ether Energy (ATREE)





posted here # 154: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...gnetism-6.html



ps: Welcome to our friend evolvingape , thank you for joining our Merry Band of Freedom Seekers

[Slovenia]

Multiple Versions

Hi Paul,
The main problem is that there are two different versions of the Serbian device being experimented with here. Primary focus is now on the IKEA model which is stainless steel and doesn't need sanding to tune it. People don't want to have to sand something to tune it if they don't have to but nobody except the inventor of the device knows actually how to tune it without sanding it. Also nobody except the inventor knows the actual configuration of the device and/or how it is driven electrically. What we do know is that the device is manufactured from an IKEA thermos. The bottom of the thermos is cut off exposing two separate tubes. One tube is inside the other and both inner and outer tubes are connected at the top of the thermos by metal that makes up the neck of the thermos where the lid screwed on. We do know the following: That the tubes are connected to the power and the power is 220 volts input. We do know that no ring is used with this setup. We do know that both tubes are cut to the exact same length and fine sanded on the top where the bottom was removed from the thermos. We do know that there is a neutral plate and that it interacts with both the inner and outer tube. We know that this plate is adjustable and can be adjusted close or far away from the end of the tubes. We know that the thermos boiler is used in an upside down configuration with the tubes pointed down. Since we know that both tubes are electronically conductive in this apparatus and that no ring is used, we must assume the neutral plate is on the bottom. We do know that the device is tuned electronically to the best frequency and that it maintains it's frequency hold automatically. How exactly this electronic tuning is accomplished is proprietary by the inventor and we are not privy to this information.
So in summary, it would be difficult to draw up a diagram for the IKEA at this time with the limited knowledge we have regarding it.

Serbian Boiler
We do have adequate knowledge with regard to the original beer can model with the neutral ring, but we have a pdf file with pictures and diagrams for that device and only a few persons are still interested in pursuing experiments with it.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

I think this would be very helpful, particularly for new people
coming to this discussion.

Paul-R