Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter "Replications"

[Farmhand]

Kokomo it took me a few readings of that patent to get the full magnitude of what he was saying.

For instance the tuning with weak signal is so that if the maximum potential
develops below the sphere it could break out and damage the supports.

The difference is the Terminal it is made not to leak. the voltage safety valve
"V" is to prevent the potential becoming too high because the terminal itself
does not leak energy. The Sharp point "V" is positioned to regulate the
terminal voltage by giving a leakage point to the atmosphere it only leaked
when the potential became to high to be safe.

The coil "C" is excited by currents of any suitable character that is the power
source for the transmitter. The coil "C" is also the output coil for the receiver.
The coil "C" is excited by capacitor discharges or an alternator not the
Transmitter itself.

Basically the primary circuit is the same, the big difference is the extra coil "B"
and the Improved terminal that does not leak unless the potential becomes
unsafe. It doesn't give off lightning continuously or radiate excessive energy.
Some radiative losses are unavoidable though and Nikola stated this fact. As
well as saying that the radiative leakage losses can be used as well, but that
is not the main purpose only another way to reduce the very small losses from
hertz wave radiations.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

is there any particular reason they do not have the same or near the same resonance fr?

Yes I'm using a square wave from the function generator not a sine wave, that
is important to note, I am not inputting a sine wave to the transformer, I am
inputting a Square Wave. I wouldn't test for resonance using a sine wave input.

And because the primary is shorter but has .2 uf capacitance across it but
the secondary did not have added capacitance and I was pulsing the primary
at it's resonant frequency with it's added capacitance 530 khz, therefore the
secondary was free to oscillate with no added capacitance and it's resonant
frequency with no added capacitance is quite a bit higher than that, the
coupling is not tight and it's air cored. When I add 18 nF to the secondary the
secondary matches the primary frequency and the waveform gets bigger and pure sine wave.
Without the .2uF capacitance across the primary it's resonant frequency is
also in the Mhz. The primary coil inductance is 0.036 mH both combined and
the secondary coil inductance is 0.234 mH for the low voltage coils for
testing, and 61.6 mH for the high voltage coils I made.

That can also happen the other way with the secondary in resonance and the
primary oscillating much faster, which is probably what is seen with most
Tesla coils, Not a nice clean sine wave, because the primary is not oscillating
at the same frequency as the secondary, for best results I think the primary
should be made to oscillate at the same frequency as the secondary to get a
wave form like this below.

Tesla states the waveform should be almost perfectly sinusoidal from a Magnifying Transmitter too I read.



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I only showed it for curiosity sake it's nothing really useful. I just seen it on
the scope when I was messing about and took the snap to show it.

Cheers

[Kokomoj0]

He mentions over and over in the claims at the end "surfaces of large radius of curvature".

yes that is my take on it as well.

It appears that he likes large radius everything, wire, coild size and ball size.

I just finished reading the mods in version 2 and it seems like he had confinement problems much like stifflers coils that have a large field around them.

He uses some terminology that is not entirely clear, almost like he wanted to give it to the world without really giving it to the world if you know what I mean.

His resonant circuit is A, B, B', D and E where B is considered to be operating at its (free?), (natural?) resonance.

Apparently the high voltage is never supposed to go below B' in the circuit and he warns that in tuning one should start with weak signals which I presume from the way he said it to prevent a runaway condition, which if using coil C as an exciter to pick some of the signal off of the resonator could conceivably cause?

He also said the wire from the B coil could be connected directly to D which is interesting also and that the time to transform static to kinetic is 1/4 cycle.

I do not see any huge difference between this and his first version in fundamental operation but I can see this one getting much larger voltage and efficiency than his first version with maybe the exception of the free oscillating coil which I cant help but wonder is the starting point of the whole design in the first place and everything else should be matched to it.

I think that the idea of the plasma bulb in place of the sphere would stil apply because we are playing with very small levels compared to what he was shooting for and maybe get better results that way?

I suppose if one wanted to go higher in fr than 30k that would not be a problem if you wanted to use a wire between then as tesla was concerned with increasing ground losses with increasingly higher freqs.

Some of the things talked about in that second patent I am not sure I can fully wrap my head around yet like his major concerns for curvature of surfaces of everything apparently as a huge controlling factor taking note of that safety valve design which I read 3 times very slowly and still do not see exactly how he is connecting those dots.

I like his addition of the self resonant B coil design, it looks like the thing was intended to run totally unattended.

I do not see anything in there about 292 either, just a static to kinetic convertor/transmitter that would run forever as long as the earth has rareified charged atmosphere.

Begs the question if meyls coils simply had 2 different natural freqs doesnt it?

[Kokomoj0]

is there any particular reason they do not have the same or near the same resonance fr?

[7imix]

Hi Farmhand! I'm great. Very busy with work, but I need to make more time for experiments. Next week I will be doing lots of experimentin'

This is a quote from the magnifying transmitter patent:

A part of the improvements which form the subject of this specification, the transmitting circuit, in its general features, is identical with that described and claimed in my original Patents Nos. 645,567 and 649,621.

So he's just building on his previous patents. This is the way patents work (or used to work), one is supposed to write the patent claims in a way where the minimum useful improvement is covered by one patent, and then file other patents for other improvements that can be used in combination or separately.

If you see in the magnifying transmitter patent claims, what he is claiming in the 1904 patent is really his "bumpy toroid". He mentions over and over in the claims at the end "surfaces of large radius of curvature". He mentions large radius of curvature in every one of the claims at the end of the patent.

Anyway, many of his different patents describe different key insights which are useful for building an efficient device.

In fact, many inventors throughout history have explicitly left out from a patent parts of the device that are described in other patents, to make it more difficult for rivals to replicate. In Tesla's case, this meant few people have reproduced the effects he claimed.

Anyway, my post was intended to clarify my opinion about what was genuinely from Tesla and what were novel claims made by Dollard and Smith. We're on the right track just doing experiments and attempting to gain understanding for ourselves rather than just parroting what others have written.

-----

Kokomoj0: THANK YOU for cluing me in to the VSWR meter! Looks extremely useful.

[Farmhand]

That would be pretty cool I also like your idea of having a transformer before the ignition coil to increase the voltage. I'll have to come up with some sort of transformer with up to maybe 4 times the input voltage with a tap on each quarter. Balancing voltage and resistance seems to be keeping things relatively cool for the moment though so I have some time to think of something.

Yeah dR, I think it is a good idea to run the ignition coil or HV supply
transformer from AC. That way the transistors don't heat up and heat is
wasted energy.
I wouldn't go too high with the step up but four times sounds good, mine is
about 60 v AC with 12 volt input but then the PW on the transformer can be
adjusted as well to vary the power. My transformer uses a resonant charging
circuit, at idle the tank voltage is high but input power is almost nothing, it's
a very efficient transformer when resonant and then at the flick of a switch I
can change to 1.2 or 2.4 Khz and charge batteries from the recovery with
spikes, when it is resonant at higher frequency there is no spikes so the
charge batteries just get a clip off the sine wave or I disconnect them.

When not resonant the whole setup uses more power because of the spikes
and the charge batteries take some power away from the secondary but they
do get charged.

But any transformer to do the job will do, smaller toroids are very painful to
wind, unfortunately. A regular inverter/transformer type setup will use almost
50/50 duty though.

I would recommend an iron powder toroidal core ( for higher frequency ) at
least big enough to pass a small spool of wire through. Then wind at least two
primary coils on it so you can make AC with a PWM circuit. The circuit that
7imix helped me to build works really well and I've had absolutely no trouble
with it at all. There is a hand drawn schematic back in the thread but I'll be
doing a proper one and producing a few circuit boards for them sooner or later.

The idea with the series of step up's in potential in that sketch is to get
excessively high voltages on the two slightly curved plates just far enough
apart so as not to spark and look for effects. The top plate could be
suspended by a flexible cable, so it can be observed for movement. The
bottom plate could be turned over to create a cupping effect also.

Cheers

[Farmhand]

Hey dR, Very impressive results from you're little coils. Are they special bulbs the
filament/plasma hybrid bulbs or did you make them hybrid bulbs by applying
excessively high voltage to them. Nice work you can raise and lower the
primary and/or the secondary to alter the coupling ? Thats another difference
between a magnifier and a regular Telsa coil is the magnifier has close coupling
but a Flame thrower has loose coupling. Spirals have a fairly close coupling too.

I would like to try a spiral primary and secondary with a helical "extra coil"
resonator. It would be like making a spiral transformer into a magnifier. Kinda like
what I did with the garden light coil with a conical secondary and helical
extra coil" and inverted conical primary. Ahh so much fun to have so few hours
in the day.

What I wanted to test with the mirrored coils was what happens when using
one primary and opposite wound secondaries, like how people say the
Don Smith coils should be, the secondaries are supposed to be added
together in parallel and put to one side of a FWBR with the center tap to the
other side AC. However with opposite wound secondaries one side cancels the
other out by half if the "one" primary is all to the like wound secondary end
the output voltage is halved, but with two primaries connected in "anti-series"
negative end of the CCW primary to the negative end of the CW primary when
the secondaries are added together in parallel the voltage is increase by what
looks like nearly 10 x for the same input.

I can't believe I ran out of secondary formers/bobbins I'll have to unwind and
rewind the CW one to CCW to test with all CCW wound coils as I tested
before and compare the results, I think that is the scientific way to see the
truth. I predict that the output voltage will remain the same with
two CCW secondaries unless the primary is moved to cover part of the other
side of the center tap and when it moved like that as Don says to do to
adjust the voltage, the output voltage will drop when that's done and more
amperes will be able to be produced. That's what I think.

I think the Don Smith setup uses all CCW wound coils with one movable
primary to swap less volts for more amps or however it should be said.
A lot of people are attempting Don Smith setups but nobody seems to want to
do all the testing to confirm things. I'm not going to go to the trouble of
having a movable primary, but I'll be able to tell enough to know what to do
and what not to do after I think about the results that is. Sometimes it
takes a while absorb.

This needed to be tested, with the two opposite primaries and two opposite
secondaries there is a few different ways it can be used.

Cheers

[dR-Green]

I might try some scheme like this to make the air glow.

That would be pretty cool I also like your idea of having a transformer before the ignition coil to increase the voltage. I'll have to come up with some sort of transformer with up to maybe 4 times the input voltage with a tap on each quarter. Balancing voltage and resistance seems to be keeping things relatively cool for the moment though so I have some time to think of something.

[soundiceuk]

Here is another Tesla reference:

"For example, when in a system of transmission of energy for any purpose through the natural media the transmitting and receiving conductors are connected to earth and to an insulated terminal, respectively, the lengths of these conductors should be one-quarter of the wave length of the disturbance propagated through them."

Tesla Patent 685,012 - Means for Increasing the Intensity of Electrical Oscillations

[Farmhand]

I dont have any issue with equal mass of the primary to secondary. I do not think it is critical however that simply makes good sense to maximize dielectric induction since that is ultimately part of what we wish to t/r.

From my POV, Smith is a snake oil salesman who was obsessed with the output voltage levels exactly as I would be if I had NIMI batteries hidden and I wanted to insure they did not go over the cliff during the demonstration.

Being an old antenna designer myself:

people can see that tesla stated to cut wire to approximately 1/4 wavelength of the desired operating frequency for the secondary.

Now with a primary of only 2 turns that will have a very small effect on the wavelength by comparison to the length of the secondary.

If we go according to smith and make the primary 1/4wl and the secondary 1/4wl that is a total of 1/2wl and no longer the tesla design since tesla stated the electrical length should be set to 1/4wl.

I have not seen in that patent matching mass but that we know or at least I think we agree to presume that is one of the elements in creating the ideal condition for dielectric induction. Otherwise isnt it like having a capacitor with one large plate and one small one?

I think its important to note that any antenna which is what his towers are, (in several respects) are an impedance matching device between source and load. When you build an a transmitter you essentially match the low impedance of the amp to the high impedance of the media being transmitted through.

For sound the impedance transformer is a horn for instance with a vibrating diaphram to excite the air.

The air is high impedance and therefore require high voltages to obtain conduction and the earth on the other hand would rather conduct the currents and requires very little voltage by comparison, and teslas device (generically speaking), like most other antennas is an impedance matching device on the order of an antenna or transmission line as Dollard has shown. Dollard and Lindemann chose a gas bulb as in that same patent in the above post Tesla said gas is a better conductor and matching devise for low power operation than a sphere.

So then tesla goes on to talk about how many standing waves the coil would have over its length which tells me that we can measure the standing wave ratio with a vswr meter for fine tuning the coil for a SWR of 1 for low z and/or infinity for hi z side.

The higher the z of the media at the tip the higher the v must be to conduct and the lower the current transmitted through the air thus simultaneously the higher will be the current through the ground to maintain steady state conduction, thereby impedance matching between the stratosphere and the earth and tapping the juice as it makes its journey between to the 2.

With a vswr reading of 1:1 that means that the capacitance and inductance are in an axact match with the applied frequency hence you only have the resistive component of the mutual reactance giving you resist.

So by my way of thinking the real trick here is to adjust that antenna so that the dielectric and diamagnetic are both at maximum at the top of the coil when the complex impedance is resistive and minumum at the bottom of the coil which to me implies creating windings that function on the order and same electrical form as Dollard's network has shown (only as a 1/4wl version) and the only way I am aware that can be accomplished is by some form of distributed capacitance in the design if what tesla said in the court case is correct where he claims his towers do not "radiate".

Tesla appears to have intended to have a steady state equivalent of a lightning bolt going from the ionosphere to the ground with us tapping the juice in between.



.

You quoted from the wrong patent. Telsa lodged that patent before he
realized the energy was better transmitted through the ground. He setup a
depressurized tube I think, to transmit through. Wrong Patent. The Magnifying
transmitter patent has many improvements which are outlined in the claims of
that patent

This patent is the magnifying transmitter patent.
ELECTRICAL ENERGY - Google Patents

But the energy is not transmitted through the Air. It is transmitted through the ground.

Tesla states his "Antenna" does not "radiate" it is designed to hold the charge
and to not leak or "radiate". This forces the vibrations to be "fully impressed"
on the Earth. The energy is not permitted to escape from the Terminal where
the highest potential is.

The biggest trick is to build coils that are resonant at less than 30 Khz, to
allow transmission through the Earth. Regardless of anything else without
doing that ground transmissions won't be possible.

This has all been discussed and argued already before in this thread.

Cheers

[soundiceuk]

That would be an interesting experiment.

Here's my spin on things.

Nikola Tesla knew this would happen one day, the energy revolution he wanted so badly.

A Magnifying Transformer can also be used to take energy from the surrounding environment go through the secondary, which now becomes the primary. Move the components around a little, add a rectifier and voltage regulator and you can power whatever you want depending on the size of components and cable.

Using this device:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/9589-tesla-imhotep-radiant-energy-circuit.html

[dR-Green]

The reason I mentioned this, is if you think of a copper wire say 9 meters long, this wire has a certain set number of atoms with its set weight....now take that wire and shrink it to 1 meter without changing that set amount of atoms....the only way you can do that is if you make the wire with a larger diameter.....I hope this clarifies my thought....

Sorry I missed this post earlier. Yep, I'm sure there's some advantage to it, as you say effectively matching the number of atoms must form the basis of SOME sort of tuning, even if it's not the main or obvious objective.

[dR-Green]

So far it doesn't look good for opposite wound secondaries with one primary.

I think there's some sort of "winding" and "unwinding" action going on. Connected the same way the effects cancel each other out, but connecting one of the two coils effectively upside down increases the effects. Those coils look nice

[dR-Green]

What do y'all suppose might happen if you were to activate a Tesla coil at an example frequency of 10kHz, and then set up a big old speaker blasting out a 10kHz frequency right next to it?

Or, 2.5kHz coil with 10kHz from the speaker.

[Farmhand]

Hi 7imix, How are you.

Anyway I did some testing on the CCW-CW coils here is a video below. I made some
special LV secondaries to test some different arrangements. I can rewind
them differently in 5 minutes.

So far it doesn't look good for opposite wound secondaries with one primary.

CCW-CW Coil Test - YouTube

Here is the way I tested with one primary. Paralleling the secondary halved
the voltage output. I'll do another test with Two CCW secondary coils soon.



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This is how I tested with two primary coils one CCW one CW.
Paralleling the secondaries like this more than doubled the voltage output.


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Here is the coils I made up for testing.


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This is resonance.


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This is resonance of the primary with the secondary freely oscillating on it.


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I think I'll try to use it like this when I get it in oil.



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This is a very interesting setup and works well with the HV secondary coils.

I might try some scheme like this to make the air glow.


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Cheers