This is it !

[gmeast]

Sidac

Ok, so, coupling the driver with the coil. This is obviously a tricky subject. My experiments with optocouplers were not promising -- they could not switch fast enough. I have been thinking of other methods of getting sharp pulses... Don smith basically used solid state spark gap equivalents, like a sidac or a varistor. So he would charge a high voltage cap with just normal high voltage ac and then once the breakdown voltage of the "gap" is reached the cap discharges into the coil.

I'm going to be building a circuit like this one anyway to increase my understanding and ability to build solid state tesla coils. However the hard part with this circuit might be the timing, especially since we want the pulses to go to different coils at different times. So this may make this impulser design not suitable for the toroid.

Thinking more about the SIDAC idea, if the voltage could be driven up fast enough, and then the SIDAC begins to conduct, this could generate a very sharp pulse, but between what and what?

Nice thinking 7imix

[Farmhand]

Thinking more about the SIDAC idea, if the voltage could be driven up fast enough, and then the SIDAC begins to conduct, this could generate a very sharp pulse, but between what and what?

Nice thinking 7imix

I think we should try the simplest thing most likely to work first and see what happens. When we get our core's wound we can do that. I think we should at least try a simple TTL type gate driver, this way we can choose if we use Logic level fets or not. Unless it's already been done with that setup of course.

In my opinion we need to get a coil set and PWM as close as possible to what we want to replicate. Then we can design the final circuit including the gate drivers and soforth.

What will be actually making the pulses ? Are there any to see yet ?

I have shown that the pulses measured at the unconnected PWM (while testing function) do not always match the pulses when connected to a Driver and MOSFET. In fact my unconnected PWM pulses look almost 50 / 50 but when it's connected to a fet in a working circuit (left how it is no adjustment) the duty is more like 17% the frequency also changes a little bit.

I do realise that what I describe above may just be an anomoly of the PWM I am using. But it is pronounced and seems to be related to the input capacitance of the Mosfet maybe . Don't know.

Just thought I would mention that. Just incase. It wasted a lot of my time because I thought the PWM would be no good, but it was fine once fully connected and working. Totally different duty / PW when connected and not connected.

Don't burn out on us guys.

[gmeast]

controversy

Hi all, thought i would share my waxing on follies too. I used a different method than Greg, hopefully I can cause some much needed controversy. We could do with some of that controversy stuff. It's hard to get enough.

Just kidding. I just warmed my core up in the sun, I couldn't find an adult so I wasn't allowed to use the stove. After I warmed the core and some wax, I just worked the wax into pieces that slotted into the gaps and I worked the soft wax into the gaps like that. Then I will trim it back just like Greg said to do.

One pic shows the way I filled the gaps and the next one shows a small almost finished area.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pZ3l6KqR0dFc8w5rngfBwZ7e-oAFTdxedMit3zEPIN2mtCVLy6HLoSvDAFiKCIynEtUtKSOkvLppNnMNMK_Xwrw/core-22%20003.JPG?psid=1

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1prAgaX18ibmRwq6IPBCIUcBOu5KOD5hnsUyHnGlOw-UB_Zy1bsbxvtcI2yveKl_fkLzpi7kdI099dPs4okIxVgQ/corewax%20003.JPG?psid=1

I like the way you did it Greg much less labor intensive than my way, quicker too by the looks. Oh well I needed some finger tip exercises. Strengthen the finger tips for more effective Three Stooges forked two finger eye pokes to the bad guys.

And nobody steal my finger print images either. If you do i'll have to start using the other one's. Hahaha I only have a couple of set's of fingers left.

Cheers

Oh God yes! That's what's been lacking here ... controversy. Kidding aside, I feel very fortunate to have touched topic with Bob Boyce here.

It only took me two hours to wax to the point I shared. So I'm anxious to finish the 'rough' waxing, finishing and flattening, taping and winding the primaries. But Farmhand, I forgot to say my fingers are very sore also. I didn't mention one step was to dribble a little extra wax and worked it in with a warm knife ... need to find a nice, short, shiny cake frosting spatula ... will make it easier.

I've ordered the logic components and and have a tracking # and am totally jazzed. This pulse widget will be very easy to use and set up.

Until later

[gmeast]

what I think we're doing

I think we should try the simplest thing most likely to work first and see what happens. When we get our core's wound we can do that. I think we should at least try a simple TTL type gate driver, this way we can choose if we use Logic level fets or not. Unless it's already been done with that setup of course.

In my opinion we need to get a coil set and PWM as close as possible to what we want to replicate. Then we can design the final circuit including the gate drivers and soforth.

What will be actually making the pulses ? Are there any to see yet ?

I have shown that the pulses measured at the unconnected PWM (while testing function) do not always match the pulses when connected to a Driver and MOSFET. In fact my unconnected PWM pulses look almost 50 / 50 but when it's connected to a fet in a working circuit (left how it is no adjustment) the duty is more like 17% the frequency also changes a little bit.

I do realise that what I describe above may just be an anomoly of the PWM I am using. But it is pronounced and seems to be related to the input capacitance of the Mosfet maybe . Don't know.

Just thought I would mention that. Just incase. It wasted a lot of my time because I thought the PWM would be no good, but it was fine once fully connected and working. Totally different duty / PW when connected and not connected.

Don't burn out on us guys.

Hi Farmhand,

Did you see my post re: my Op-Amp PWM? ... 48KHz and 2usec 'on' time ... and no change when firing an IRF540Z. The gate driver is simply the output of the 3rd stage Op-Amp ... the comparator stage. The FET power output trace matches the gate driver trace except the power trace has coil ringing and so forth. I think there's something strange with your PWM. You're using the CMOS circuit, correct? I'm pretty sure we will be using the device Bob uses in his 3G to fire the FETs. It's in the schematic parts list for the 3F and I guess it's the same as in the 3G, I hope it's the same:

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/charging/OCP-PCP116-TR.pdf

7imix is messing with my pulser module concept I think. I have most of mine built except for a couple of details ... like the gate logic that I think works ... find out this week when I get the gate chips. That PCP116 should interface nicely with my SN74LS devices. I don't know what's used on the Hex Controller. It is a 8-pin device and the pcp116 is 6-pin, but the 3f shows an 8-pin device ... oh God, now I'm confused. Oh well, what's new?

Things are moving along though. I had a good Toroid and Circuit design day.

Later

[7imix]

Thinking more about the SIDAC idea, if the voltage could be driven up fast enough, and then the SIDAC begins to conduct, this could generate a very sharp pulse, but between what and what?

Nice thinking 7imix

between a high q (fast pulse) capacitor and the coil.

I even have some little vacuum tube spark gaps that might work, I pulled a couple off some old analog driver boards from a high end monitor. any component used for overvoltage protection could be investigated as a pulse sharpener.

the don smith devices have various different driver circuits but basically they are producing the same waveforms, very sharp impulses at extremely high frequency.

[7imix]

I think we should try the simplest thing most likely to work first and see what happens. When we get our core's wound we can do that. I think we should at least try a simple TTL type gate driver, this way we can choose if we use Logic level fets or not. Unless it's already been done with that setup of course.

In my opinion we need to get a coil set and PWM as close as possible to what we want to replicate. Then we can design the final circuit including the gate drivers and soforth.

What will be actually making the pulses ? Are there any to see yet ?

I have shown that the pulses measured at the unconnected PWM (while testing function) do not always match the pulses when connected to a Driver and MOSFET. In fact my unconnected PWM pulses look almost 50 / 50 but when it's connected to a fet in a working circuit (left how it is no adjustment) the duty is more like 17% the frequency also changes a little bit.

I do realise that what I describe above may just be an anomoly of the PWM I am using. But it is pronounced and seems to be related to the input capacitance of the Mosfet maybe . Don't know.

Just thought I would mention that. Just incase. It wasted a lot of my time because I thought the PWM would be no good, but it was fine once fully connected and working. Totally different duty / PW when connected and not connected.

Don't burn out on us guys.

yeah sounds like gate capacitance is affecting the shape of the pulse out of the mosfet. have you tried one of those mosfet driver circuits with the two transistors that were discussed earlier in this thread?

[Farmhand]

Hi Greg, 7imix, I figured it had something to do with the very simple PWM adjustment method used in this setup. No probs. I haven't put any circuits together lately ( few days) except for an experimental Stingo.

I'm just gonna keep workin on the winding for now. This wax moulding is fun. It would be very easy to get carried away it.

Let me know if youse want me to try any circuits or parts of circuits, I got a new solderless board the other day so if i have the componants I can try some stuff to see how fool proof it is. If I can build it anyone can.

Cheers

[gmeast]

experiments

Hi Greg, 7imix, I figured it had something to do with the very simple PWM adjustment method used in this setup. No probs. I haven't put any circuits together lately ( few days) except for an experimental Stingo.

I'm just gonna keep workin on the winding for now. This wax moulding is fun. It would be very easy to get carried away it.

Let me know if youse want me to try any circuits or parts of circuits, I got a new solderless board the other day so if i have the componants I can try some stuff to see how fool proof it is. If I can build it anyone can.

Cheers

Will do Farmhand. 7imix and I are trying to sort out the IRF540Z driver interface for the PWM3f board. and maybe what the PWM3G was changed to ... 6-Pin to 8-Pin

Later

[7imix]

Will do Farmhand. 7imix and I are trying to sort out the IRF540Z driver interface for the PWM3f board. and maybe what the PWM3G was changed to ... 6-Pin to 8-Pin

Later

The 3G board without parts is only $8 from hydrogen garage, surely they would give a parts list with it?

[cikljamas]

how close

Hi guys, i am jealous of your forward steps (a little bit), and i have to
ask you 7imix, what are the chances for you and me to make any
progress with this project using your ghetto toroid ?

I`ve been messing around yesterday with this :

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2865/howclose.jpg

And these leds are lightened guess with how much uAmps, not mAmps ?
With 10 uAmps !

In two hours these two AA batteries depleted for guess how much mV ?
For four mVolts !

So, how close to OU is this ?

Cheers !

[marxist]

3g parts list

... 3G board .... parts list

please find 3g parts list here:
PWM3G Parts List

please find 3f parts list here;
ID Digi-Key Part# Description

C1 P3913-ND Capacitor, High Stability, .01uF, 50V, 2%
C2 565-1303-ND Capacitor, Electrolytic, 10uF, 16V, Radial
C3 P3917-ND Capacitor, High Stability, .022uF, 50V, 2%
C4 P3921-ND Capacitor, High Stability, .047uF, 50V, 2%
C5 BC1072CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .001uF, 50V
C6 BC1072CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .001uF, 50V
C7 BC1072CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .001uF, 50V
C8 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C9 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C10 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C11 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C12 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C13 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C14 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C15 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C16 BC1078CT-ND Capacitor, Ceramic Disc, .01uF, 50V
C17 565-1673-ND Capacitor, Electrolytic, 100uF, 25V, Radial
D0 MUR410RLGOSCT-ND MUR410RL, Diode, Ultra Fast, 4A, 100V, Axial
D1 MUR410RLGOSCT-ND MUR410RL, Diode, Ultra Fast, 4A, 100V, Axial
D2 MUR410RLGOSCT-ND MUR410RL, Diode, Ultra Fast, 4A, 100V, Axial
D3 MUR410RLGOSCT-ND MUR410RL, Diode, Ultra Fast, 4A, 100V, Axial
D4 1N914-TPCT-ND 1N914 Switching Diode
D5 1N914-TPCT-ND 1N914 Switching Diode
D6 1N914-TPCT-ND 1N914 Switching Diode
I1 67-1058-ND LED, T1, Amber
I2 67-1058-ND LED, T1, Amber
I3 67-1058-ND LED, T1, Amber
I4 67-1064-ND LED, T1, Red
I5 67-1064-ND LED, T1, Red
I6 67-1064-ND LED, T1, Red
I7 67-1070-ND LED, T1, Green
I8 67-1070-ND LED, T1, Green
J1 WM8084-ND Header, .100", 2 Position
J2 WM8084-ND Header, .100", 2 Position
J3 WM8084-ND Header, .100", 2 Position
J4 WM8086-ND Header, .100", 4 Position
M1 495-1450-ND Metal Oxide Varister - S14K14AUTO
M2 495-1450-ND Metal Oxide Varister - S14K14AUTO
M3 495-1450-ND Metal Oxide Varister - S14K14AUTO
M4 495-1450-ND Metal Oxide Varister - S14K14AUTO
Opt1 67-1566-5-ND Photocoupler, Single Channel Photo IC, Lumex OCP-PCP116, 6 Pin DIP
Opt2 67-1566-5-ND Photocoupler, Single Channel Photo IC, Lumex OCP-PCP116, 6 Pin DIP
Opt3 67-1566-5-ND Photocoupler, Single Channel Photo IC, Lumex OCP-PCP116, 6 Pin DIP
Q1 IRF540ZPBF-ND IRF540 Diode Protected HEXFET, TO-220
Q2 IRF540ZPBF-ND IRF540 Diode Protected HEXFET, TO-220
Q3 IRF540ZPBF-ND IRF540 Diode Protected HEXFET, TO-220
R1 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R2 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R3 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R4 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R5 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R6 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R7 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R8 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R9 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R10 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R11 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R12 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R13 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R14 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R15 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R16 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R17 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R18 10KQBK-ND Resistor, 10k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R19 4.7KQBK-ND Resistor, 4.7k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R20 3.3KQBK-ND Resistor, 3.3k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R21 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R22 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R23 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R24 3006P-104-ND Resistor, Potentiometer, 15-turn CERMET, 100k ohm, 3/4W
R25 3006P-104-ND Resistor, Potentiometer, 15-turn CERMET, 100k ohm, 3/4W
R26 3006P-104-ND Resistor, Potentiometer, 15-turn CERMET, 100k ohm, 3/4W
R27 3006P-104-ND Resistor, Potentiometer, 15-turn CERMET, 100k ohm, 3/4W
R28 3006P-104-ND Resistor, Potentiometer, 15-turn CERMET, 100k ohm, 3/4W
R29 3006P-104-ND Resistor, Potentiometer, 15-turn CERMET, 100k ohm, 3/4W
R31 3.3KQBK-ND Resistor, 3.3k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R32 3.3KQBK-ND Resistor, 3.3k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R33 3.3KQBK-ND Resistor, 3.3k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R34 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R35 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R36 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R37 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R38 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R39 1.0KQBK-ND Resistor, 1k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R40 4.7KQBK-ND Resistor, 4.7k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R41 4.7KQBK-ND Resistor, 4.7k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
R42 4.7KQBK-ND Resistor, 4.7k ohm, 1/4W, 5%
SW1 CT2094LPST-ND 4PST Switch, 8 Pin DIP
TB1 ED1609-ND 2 Required Terminal Block, .200", 2 position X 2
TB2 ED1609-ND 2 Required Terminal Block, .200", 2 position X 2
U1 296-6504-5-ND Texas Instruments NE556N Dual Timer IC, 14 Pin DIP, Must Be From MALAYSIA
U2 296-6504-5-ND Texas Instruments NE556N Dual Timer IC, 14 Pin DIP
U3 296-6504-5-ND Texas Instruments NE556N Dual Timer IC, 14 Pin DIP
U4 497-1446-5-ND 7808T or LM7808, Voltage Regulator IC, 3 Terminal, 8V, 1 A, TO-220
Misc AE8906-ND 3 Required IC Socket, 6 Pin DIP, Soldertail
Misc AE8914-ND 3 Required IC Socket, 14 Pin DIP, Soldertail
Misc 4724K-ND 3 Required TO-220 Mounting kit X 3 for Q1, Q2, & Q3. Not needed for U4.
Misc A31697-ND Pack of 10 2 position .100" shunt block for shorting J1, J2, and J3
Functions

J1 External PWM Master Disable, Short to Disable Onboard PWMs 1-3
J2 Single Supply Enable, Short to Tie MOSFET Gate Supply TB3 to +DC
J3 Common Ground Enable, Short to Tie MOSFET Source to -DC
J4 Auxillary TTL Inputs 1, 2, 3, & Gnd
SW1 1-3 = PWM Channel Disable 4 = PWM Master Disable
TB1 DC Power Input & MOSFET Source Ground
TB2 MOSFET Drain/PWM Outputs & MOSFET Gate Supply Input

@ Bob Boyce:
thanks for assisting the people who work in this thread.

[gmeast]

parts lists

please find 3g parts list here:
PWM3G Parts List

please find 3f parts list here;
ID Digi-Key Part# Description

C1 P3913-ND Capacitor, High Stability, .01uF, 50V, 2%
.................................................. .........................................
.................................................. ........
@ Bob Boyce:
thanks for assisting the people who work in this thread.

Hi markist,

Thanks a bunch for these lists. It saves guessing and hunting around aimlessly.

Much thanks again. Gonna' go get some (of these).

Later

[cikljamas]

Well, this is on the path of my last post...

What about this bitoroid solution :
YouTube - Ottawa University BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER DEMO July 11, 2009

Please, see this video and reply with your opinion !
That guy is claiming cop = 5 and i believe it is so !

Cheers !

[gmeast]

take offs

Well, this is on the path of my last post...

What about this bitoroid solution :
YouTube - Ottawa University BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER DEMO July 11, 2009

Please, see this video and reply with your opinion !
That guy is claiming cop = 5 and i believe it is so !

Cheers !

Hi cycleman,

I view all of these 'alternate flux path' devices as continuations and take offs of the Floyd Sweet VTA. Even though it does not appear to be a similar principle, this all started with Sweet. Bearden's MEG is similar too and in my view inspired solely by Sweet's VTA (Vacuum Triode forgot "A" ... Amplifier maybe).

If it were COP 5, then these guys would either be dead or in a gulag or factories and home would be installing them.

Thane Heins is pretty brilliant though .. is this his?

... My Opinion. Later

[gmeast]

parts

Hi ladies and germs,

Ordered drivers today ... enough to keep me happy. Gates arrive Friday. More waxing tomorrow ... maybe taping and primaries too.

Since we're NOT doing cells, impedance matching does not apply. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I will just wind the primaries through a full 90 degrees as per the the 'protractor' with the primary windings spaced as shown w/respect to secondary ... yes? ... no?

Later