This is it !

[gmeast]

cool mosfet

Agree .
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............
But why you are happy that your MOSFET is cool? Isn't that sign that you don't drive the MOSFET hard enough?
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............

Oh no! Since the Mosfet has a very low "on" resistance, a cool-running Mosfet means your gate-driving circuit is turning the Mosfet ALL the way 'on' and ALL the way 'off'... in other words, "it's working perfectly". If you drive something like a transistor too hard, the transistor heats up because of the excess current flowing through the base ... it'll melt down ... poof.

Peace

[cikljamas]

.......... and cikljamas, you have to play too!

And why do you think i ask all of you for your diagrams ?
Only purpose is my harder engage since i do not understand
this particular branch of electronics as most of you who
took over(in good sense of course) this thread(and thank God
for that) do understand....So i write here posts when i think
i have to say something that makes sense or could be useful for
anyone anyhow...In the meantime i work other things that are
very closely related to this very matter (charging batteries)...
Equipment is another obstacle for me, so i do as much as i am
able to do, it is a pity i can not do more but it is beyond my
responsibility....

Consider that two years ago i did not know what is transistor for ?
So, regarding that fact i am proud of me too, to even participate at all in
such remarkable things as this thread is...

Since that time (two years ago) i made gigantic steps in electronics but
i am still far, far behind most of you who are educated in this scientific
branch, and i wasted years of my education on philosophy and theology,
and things like that, not knowing what really interested me...But now
when you have to start from the beginning without school background
of these kind of knowledge it is much more difficult, but i do not care,
i just go forward, and do not complain, i just wanted to make you more
clear why my contribution is so little...
I hope, now you understand better my role in this thread !

Cheers !

[sucahyo]

Oh no! Since the Mosfet has a very low "on" resistance, a cool-running Mosfet means your gate-driving circuit is turning the Mosfet ALL the way 'on' and ALL the way 'off'... in other words, "it's working perfectly". If you drive something like a transistor too hard, the transistor heats up because of the excess current flowing through the base ... it'll melt down ... poof.

Peace

I see. thanks .

[cikljamas]

4. I am making one another now actually, this one with wo coils and fets.

Thanks for your answer !
Concerning question 4., you are making one another desulfator for
desulfating batteries or for this thread pulsing purpose ???

mpsa56 could be changed with some other pnp, for instance 2n3906 ?

5. Not sure about that Yeah 12 to 15 volts.

Not sure about external power purpose ?
But this is the crucial thing, cause desulfators works with just one power source which is the target in the same time, just the same as watkykjy stuff,
that is why i am confused with this external power !

Cheers !

[Farmhand]

I just wanted to be sure, first off, that I could get a sub-1usec pulse duration at 42,800Hz per Boyce. So I can do that which means that my gate-driving technique (gate drive tuning) works (it's just biasing stuff ... resistors). Some of my offset circuit summing and feedback resistors are on the bottom of the board. So I have to tear down the setup to record the values. I'll post the sub-usec 'on time' scope capture in another post.

Excelent.

Now I will work on sketching EXACTLY what I have in my circuit ... maybe a picture of my crappy steel wire-core toroid ... nothin' to write home about. I also have an idea for drastically reducing circuit power overhead (waste).

Did the wire core get warm ?

My next thing to do will be to determine the component requirement for an RC-based sequencer. Since I will be building the "Boyce" toroid, I will be 'swirling' with 3 primary coils, each with its common to battery(+) like in watkykjy's video at the beginning of this thread. So ... my circuit will address the needs of 'swirling' 3 coils, 'round and 'round the toroid.

I haven't found a source of that wire yet, three primaries is probably the best number, did you see in his document the six primary toroid "nice" wouldn't that be for the hex controller? Maybe I can get just the wire sent from Hydrogen Garage. Hope so.

.......... and cikljamas, you have to play too!

I think he is getting interested to join in again.

cikljamas I was going to try the winding above with a 40 mm ferrite toroid to see what happened you could try it with two stingo's or bingo's as well, or maybe you already have.

Anyway the desulfator circuit above, with mine I can adjust it to use from less than 100 Ma to more than 1 ampere. At one amp drain you need a reasonable source battery though or a good 12-15v supply. The good thing is the Mosfet just gets a bit warm not hot. So very low losses, the lower the on resitance of the mosfet and the better it is driven the cooler it will stay and waste less power as heat, as well as being very quick to turn off and on.

So overall very efficient for desufating batteries, over a long period = very big power savings. It's also cheap and a good learning experience. I found it a bit frustrating.

Cheers

cikljamas P.S.

Yeah any pnp transitor will work gain of 100 or more is better.

Not sure about external power purpose ?
But this is the crucial thing, cause desulfators works with just one power source which is the target in the same time, just the same as watkykjy stuff,
that is why i am confused with this external power !

Ahh I see yes I will post a diagram for that, it's a different circuit. I will transfer this conversation to the already exsiting thread for this circuit and post it there a soon. This circuit is a variation of that one because that one runs down it's own battery and end's up flat. I think the devil is in the tuning and recharging method though good thinking, funny that never occured to me. Your sharp.

This will be another desufator that I can experiment with.

Please be patient cikljamas. It's dinner time.

[cikljamas]

Please be patient cikljamas. It's dinner time.

I am patient, i learned how to be, which means i did not know
how to be patient most of my life, and even now, you shoud see me
in traffic, mama mia, i need chopper, i can not stand waiting
in traffic jam, i must fly across those cars, or i stay at home...

But as i said i know now how to control myself at least a little bit
Enjoy your meal !

And when you come back tell me : do you suggest me to start replicate
this desulfator according your last diagram or to wait new one upload
that you announced ?

Later !

[Farmhand]

cikljamas, You have uncanny timing, check this thread out from back in 2009, this person had the same idea as you but nobody answered the thread. The link there still works, it's to another self desulfator.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...r-charger.html

Maybe you could restart the thread, it might take off. The original poster might even be still active and know a lot more now.

Here is the drawing, for the one that runs from it's own battery.



The idea is a good one.

Cheers

[cikljamas]

cikljamas, You have uncanny timing, check this thread out from back in 2009, this person had the same idea as you but nobody answered the thread. The link there still works, it's to another self desulfator.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...r-charger.html

Maybe you could restart the thread, it might take off. The original poster might even be still active and know a lot more now.

Here is the drawing, for the one that runs from it's own battery.



The idea is a good one.

Cheers

Farmhand, the only difference between your last two diagrams is that you
obviously cut off external power source (thanks that was confusing one
detail), and that you added 1000 uH choke ! Is this choke important one ?
I guess it could be ?...How many turns of which awg, do you know by the
chance ?

Concerning the thread of this guy, why should we go to hairdresser if
we are already bold ? But thanks anyway, it could help with some details,
and any help is always welcome, is it not ?

Today is the day of desulfator, i have to make it one way or another...
I let you know when i finish it, of course !

Cheers !

[Farmhand]

Hi all,

Well I think we will be able to make a good, sharp pulse. Here is my latest capture. I'm using the Quad Op-Amp PWM with offset control. My Mosfet is a logic level N-channel, 4.3 mOhm, PSMN4R3-30PL. The coil is a homemade toroid core of coiled up re-bar tie wire ... 3.5" dia. ... didn't count the turns.

The yellow trace is the Fet firing the coil to ground, top end of coil is battery(+). The 'on' time is 1.18usec, 200nsec fall and 120nsec rise. The green trace is my PWM gate driving pulse. I'm kind of proud of this ... can't wait for a real toroid.

Here's the capture:

http://02d1852.netsolhost.com/radiant/charging/diode_no_saturation_wire_toroid_psmn4r3-30pl0.JPG

Later

Good morning Greg, .... I must be blind, somehow I totally missed this post. sorry !

That looks spot on ! Excelent work, I can't wait either, You should be happy with that, I think. I'm not qualified to say. Looks very good to me anyway.

Do you use anything to speed up the switch off time ? Please forgive me while I ramble. The rise and fall times will always be restricted to the same as the gate charge pulse parameters. As you know of course. There is nothing can be done about the rise time unless, if you use a resister on the gate that could be removed (i'm not sure that would really change anything), however the fall time can be made as quick as you can remove the gate charge after the pulse. I think.

Please don't take offence i'm just curious and rambling on, I still don't even quite know what is different about a logic level fet, is it that it only needs a signal not a precise drive pulse ?

Anyway cheers

[gmeast]

kidding

And why do you think i ask all of you for your diagrams ?
Only purpose is my harder engage since i do not understand
this particular branch of electronics as most of you who
took over(in good sense of course) this thread(and thank God
for that) do understand....So i write here posts when i think
i have to say something that makes sense or could be useful for
anyone anyhow...In the meantime i work other things that are
very closely related to this very matter (charging batteries)...
Equipment is another obstacle for me, so i do as much as i am
able to do, it is a pity i can not do more but it is beyond my
responsibility....

Consider that two years ago i did not know what is transistor for ?
So, regarding that fact i am proud of me too, to even participate at all in
such remarkable things as this thread is...

Since that time (two years ago) i made gigantic steps in electronics but
i am still far, far behind most of you who are educated in this scientific
branch, and i wasted years of my education on philosophy and theology,
and things like that, not knowing what really interested me...But now
when you have to start from the beginning without school background
of these kind of knowledge it is much more difficult, but i do not care,
i just go forward, and do not complain, i just wanted to make you more
clear why my contribution is so little...
I hope, now you understand better my role in this thread !

Cheers !

I am joking of course. If not for you I would not have a renewed interest in OU because I had given up on the subject but a flame still 'burned' or maybe it just 'smoldered'. So, thank you.

If you only had an oscilloscope ... you would excel for sure. I am amazed!

Greg

[gmeast]

logic level

Good morning Greg, .... I must be blind, somehow I totally missed this post. sorry !

That looks spot on ! Excelent work, I can't wait either, You should be happy with that, I think. I'm not qualified to say. Looks very good to me anyway.

Do you use anything to speed up the switch off time ? Please forgive me while I ramble. The rise and fall times will always be restricted to the same as the gate charge pulse parameters. As you know of course. There is nothing can be done about the rise time unless, if you use a resister on the gate that could be removed (i'm not sure that would really change anything), however the fall time can be made as quick as you can remove the gate charge after the pulse. I think.

Please don't take offence i'm just curious and rambling on, I still don't even quite know what is different about a logic level fet, is it that it only needs a signal not a precise drive pulse ?

Anyway cheers

In the case of a FET, you usually need to drive the gate across the Drain-to-Source potential in order to achieve full turn 'turn on' and full 'turn off'. However, a 'logic level' FET will achieve this with less gate charge potential (for driving directly with Micros and TTL's) ... and because we are working with 12-Volt batteries, this can be accomplished efficiently with half the voltage ... the device's data sheet show the on-off thresholds.

To that end, and as you can see from the scope capture, I am doing that at only 6VDC. This affords us two opportunities. First opportunity is to drop the circuit power required to generate a high frequency signal and secondly, you can use a resistor divider network to 'cut in half' the gate-charge voltage by tying the gate to ground with one resistor and driving THAT resistor AND the gate with another resistor from the signal generator. In my case (an N-Channel MOSFET), my gate signal drives through two (2) 110 Ohm in series to ground, with the Fet Gate in the middle. I adjust my PWM offset for the minimum gate voltage required to achieve FULL current 'turn on" & 'turn off'. And this 'simple' arrangement also provides the path to quickly dispose of the gate charge voltage, that is, by way of the half of the resistor network tying the Fet Gate to ground. For a P-Channel device, you would bias the network, perhaps relative to battery(+). So that is the 'short' and the 'long' explanation of it when you are NOT using a 'real' gate driver device.

You'll see it in my diagram ... and now cikljamas will really kill me if I don't ACTUALLY produce that schematic ... so it's a comin'. We have to find a way to get cikljamas some sort of scope ... you need a scope to fine-tune with ... any ideas?

Later

[Farmhand]

In the case of a FET, you usually need to drive the gate across the Drain-to-Source potential in order to achieve full turn 'turn on' and full 'turn off'. However, a 'logic level' FET will achieve this with less gate charge potential (for driving directly with Micros and TTL's) ... and because we are working with 12-Volt batteries, this can be accomplished efficiently with half the voltage ... the device's data sheet show the on-off thresholds.

Hi Greg, thanks, i've been trying to work that out for a while.

I am building another board and I just scoped the gate charge pulse, it is a very wide pulse because I haven't adjusted it yet, just testing it works. The frequency is low aswell. Pulse is 10 to 12 volts and the sides are dead straight up and down. Looks good to me I think that is what causes the ringing and yours is ringing too. My gate charge trace even rings when it drops back down on the one thats fully functioning. Sweet.



It's using only 2 Ma at the low frequency of 800 Hz. I built this one with a terminal block to mount the cap for easy testing, the coils will be connected through terminal blocks as well. Something for me to play with for a while.



It'll take me a while to get through the second part of your post and understand it. I need some sleep. Thanks for the explaination, that will help me to understand a lot.

Cheers

P.S. cikljamas my friend, you can see in these pics how I have joined the pin pairs with solder and how I made the necessary connections on the point to point board. Also pays to use a 14 pin IC socket. If you do try this, when you have the pulse generator section done and the resistances set as I outlined above, it should use about 2 to 5 Ma, maybe a bit more or less, that will probably depend on how accurite our meters are. You can also see that repairing a mistake or two is ok not the end of the world. I did. Lots.

[gmeast]

neat job ... me envy

Hi Greg, thanks, i've been trying to work that out for a while.
.................................................. ......................
P.S. cikljamas my friend, you can see in these pics how I have joined the pin pairs with solder and how I made the necessary connections on the point to point board. Also pays to use a 14 pin IC socket. If you do try this, when you have the pulse generator section done and the resistances set as I outlined above, it should use about 2 to 5 Ma, maybe a bit more or less, that will probably depend on how accurite our meters are. You can also see that repairing a mistake or two is ok not the end of the world. I did. Lots.

Very nice, neat job!

[Farmhand]

Thanks, i've been getting a lot of practice. By failing I've gotta be good at something though i'm a boilermaker/welder so I should at least get the soldered connections, soldered and connected good. I just got a new iron so it's easy for a while.

Here's another drawing for cikljamas, since he has so much time to try stuff.

"Opposing Double Arc"


What do you think about this cikljamas ? Hows the thumbs ?

[cikljamas]

Farmhand my friend, i made it on the board, here is the picture of
it...
But i am not satisfied cause 40/20 mAmps seems too bad efficiency...
I use irf 540 and pnp 2n3906...
What did i wrong, maybe this choke, it is not choke on the core, but
that one like resistor from the store, maybe i should use real choke
wound on the ferrite , but you did not answer me how much turns
i should wind to get closely to 1000 uH...
So, did you really put two chokes as you showed in your diagram
(drew with hand) or it was mistake, and if it was mistake and if
there is just one choke which one is right regarding position in
the circuit ?

Ragards !

P.S. Guys , you work like a hell, you must be protestants,
well i am catholic so my brothers in arms and in Christ i wish you
merry christmas, and if you are jews i love you too, and if you are
muslims i love you too, and who ever you are i love you cause we
are all sons of one heavenly Father !