Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

[jonnydavro]

Dr Stifflers electolysis-sustained flame

Hi folks Here is one of those lucky accident experiments which we have all experienced I started of this morning on a mission to increase plasma output using Slayers exciter without blowing transistors using my existing pop bottle coil though any one starting off should think about replicating Bob's coil as he has great plasma at low volts and current draw, anyway the small signal transistors can't take much stick even though the mpsa06 seems to give great results,it is easy to blow them so i decided on the 3055,sat in a cap of water for cooling and a Lidmotor style L2 and using a wall adapter which outputs 35v I got great plasma at 180mA.So that sorted i decided to try this setup on Dr Stifflers one diode electrolysis and decided on trying to get the gas to burn so i used a syringe that was left over from a printer ink cartridge refill pack and not used to feed my cat when ill like i say in the vid jeeez.I half filled the syringe and dropped two 4148 diodes inside,they fit through the exit hole and attached the steel needle.
I fired the Slayer exciter up and the current draw was 330mA at 35V and tried lighting the gas with a candle but had no luck so i sat down and had a brew and all off a sudden,smoke started coming out of the needle and i could see an orange flame inside the small chamber at the base of the needle.It self ignites and burns with an orange flame and after a short while it burnt through the plastic so a better combustion chamber is needed.I can only think the self ignition is due to the close proximity of the metal needle and it may arc to the water due to its close proximity and in the process ignite the gas which is looking like hydrogen or could it be a mix?
Here is a vid.Jonny

YouTube - Self igniting flame probably caused by plasma arcing.

@Xee2.Hi.I checked with a neon, held close to the output wire and it lights noticeably more on one side than the other but add a croc lead to the other side and they both glow bright.Jonny

[xee2]

plasma jets

From the way the plasma jets are producing thrust I would assume they are being driven by a DC (or pulsed DC) voltage. If anyone is interested, this could be checked by holding a neon bulb near the high voltage line. If both side of the neon bulb light up then the voltage is AC. If only one side of the neon bulb lights up then the voltage is DC.

[totoalas]

plasma arc plus microwave in a vacuum??

hI Bob
i m just curious what happens in a vacuum if the output wire of L1 is connected to the hv input of a microwave radiator used in microwave ovens since they are constructed with 2 ferrite core magnets

hope to hear from you


cheers

totoalas

[TheCell]

Yep, I thought that was the case Bob, but thought it needed clarifying. So it must be the surface of the metal ionising in those cases - there's nothing else in there!

And thank you for such an eloquent way of saying it.

Bob

[Farrah Day]

Farrah,

No water in first or second vid...and all of the wires I touch that have plasma, BURN very badly...

Bob Potchen

Yep, I thought that was the case Bob, but thought it needed clarifying. So it must be the surface of the metal ionising in those cases - there's nothing else in there!

[xee2]

@ Mr.Whip

Yes, there are lots of ions in space. But space is a very, very, big place. The number of ions, molecules, or anything else per cubic meter in space is generally zero (unless you are near something emitting them such as the sun). Thus even ion rockets need to carry fuel.

[Mr.Whip]

ion's in space for Plasma propultion

To my understanding of space or the vacuum of space beyound our Earth's atmosphere. There is no abscence of matter, There is an abscence of pressure. But this vacuum of space is a vast supply of all matter. In the vacuum of space you will have plenty of molecules of all matter. Saying there are no ion's in the vacuum of space is like saying there is no oxygen in water. Barium Clouds and Solar Wind This is not a perfect lab vacuum chamber with Abscence of all matter.
Space physics can be weird. In regions of magnetic fields, the relation between electric fields and currents is very different from its form in everyday technology.

Ohm's law tells that electric fields drive electric currents, from high voltage to low voltage. In a conductor such as a wire, electrons move from (-) to (+), while ions (if they are free to move), are pushed in the opposite direction, (+) to (-). In space, on the other hand, the the entire plasma is moved sideways, perpendicular to both magnetic and electric field lines. No steady electric current results from the electric field, and both ions and electrons advance in the same direction.

On the other hand, electric currents often flow in space without any voltage driving them. No electric field is involved--the magnetic field is doing it all, when it has the appropriate structure. More from link below

Particle Drifts in Space

Mr.Whip

[xee2]

Farrah,

No water in first or second vid...and all of the wires I touch that have plasma, BURN very badly...

Bob Potchen

@ Bob,

Good point. Neon and fluorescent tubes have a vacuum in them because they work better that way. But they need the gas ions in order to work, so if it was a perfect vacuum (no ions) they would not work. The reason they work better at low pressure is that there are fewer ions when most of the gas is evacuated. This means they can travel farther before they hit something. That means they have a chance to reach higher velocities and thus gain more energy when most of the air is removed. When no air is removed the ions can only go a short distance before they hit something and thus they never get very high energy. The glow happens when a high energy ion hit an non-ionized molecule and bumps an electron out of its orbit. With a lot of air this never happens since the ions hit a molecule before they gain enough enery to bump an electron out of its orbit. Thus the plasma shows up in partial vacuum but will not show up in a perfect vacuum (where there are no ions or molecules). If the voltage is high enough the ions can be accelerated to a high velocity without a vacuum and thus the plasma will show up in air. A neon bulb produces plasma at about 100 volts with a parial vacuum. Nitrogen (air) will produce plasma at about 10 KV without a vacuum.

[seth]

A filament bulb will not light on power alone, so unlike flourescents, high voltage alone won't cut it, it does need a great enough current to cause the filament to heat up.

It is interesting to note however that at higher frequencies are bodies do not necessarily feel the shock, though current flowing through us can still be damaging.

Thanks Farrah - i thought it took a minimum amount of current to get filaments glowing. Ive done lots of HV experiments where i can get 10 CFLs to light, but not 1 low wattage filament. So I figured my T.Coil is still producing a fair amount of current on the secondary as it can light 3 filaments. I cant think of a way to accurately measure the current on the secondary, so i just stick to trying to get as many filaments going as possible...the more the better!

Sorry for going off topic....but i think Tesla coils are rather similar to what you're playing with here. Mini tesla coil is a good name.

Transistors and heat sinks have been ordered. I'll be catching up with you guys soon on the build front.

[TheCell]

I totally agree with this, but I thought Bob only had water inside the container on the second, or was it third, video. Was there water present in the first video too? If so there is still plenty of gas present - water vapour and oxygen.

Bob can you confirm whether or not you had water present in that first video. Thanks.

Farrah,

No water in first or second vid...and all of the wires I touch that have plasma, BURN very badly...

Bob

[Farrah Day]

Thanks for the answer, but it leads me to another question....

When I connect one end of my T.C secondary to 3 40W filament bulbs (and then to the earth ground) they all glow brightly. Is this possible from microamps? I thought very high voltage and little current was only capable of lighting CFLs, and NOT filaments. Isnt this true?

Cheers for your help

You're right Seth, I was actually thinking of a Van de Graaff generator, so ignore my last post. Though the primary on a large Tesla coil is more likely to kill you than the secondary due to the high current capability of that circuit.

A filament bulb will not light on power alone, so unlike flourescents, high voltage alone won't cut it, it does need a great enough current to cause the filament to heat up.

It is interesting to note however that at higher frequencies are bodies do not necessarily feel the shock, though current flowing through us can still be damaging.

[seth]

@ Seth

Power = watts = amps X volts. If you have a very high voltage it does not take much amperage to get watts of power.

makes sense! Thank you.

[xee2]

Thanks for the answer, but it leads me to another question....

When I connect one end of my T.C secondary to 3 40W filament bulbs (and then to the earth ground) they all glow brightly. Is this possible from microamps? I thought very high voltage and little current was only capable of lighting CFLs, and NOT filaments. Isnt this true?

Cheers for your help

@ Seth

Power = watts = amps X volts. If you have a very high voltage it does not take much amperage to get watts of power.

[seth]

I think you will find that a lot has to do with the very low currents these circuits operate at. Tesla coils generate extremely high voltages, but also exhibit extremely high impedance, which naturally limits the current to harmless microamps.

Thanks for the answer, but it leads me to another question....

When I connect one end of my T.C secondary to 3 40W filament bulbs (and then to the earth ground) they all glow brightly. Is this possible from microamps? I thought very high voltage and little current was only capable of lighting CFLs, and NOT filaments. Isnt this true?

Cheers for your help

[Farrah Day]

Firstly - superb thread. Well done to all of you.

Concerning your observation Laurent, a Tesla coil does exactly the same - the arc will burn paper, but hold a spanner in your hand and wave it close enough to the secondary to get arcing, and you wont feel any pain. It seems to me that what your playing with here is demonstrating the skin effect - the output is such high frequency that it doesnt penetrate far into the body and just shoots to the ground.

Heres a video of me doing exactly as described above

YouTube - skin effect

But i could be way off the mark - please educate me if its true!

I think you will find that a lot has to do with the very low currents these circuits operate at. Tesla coils generate extremely high voltages, but also exhibit extremely high impedance, which naturally limits the current to harmless microamps.